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by **joelle** » Apr 25th, '07, 19:34

course I would. I'm just saying, we can't predict what might have happened, especially in regards to someone who can just fire a gun off repeatedly at dozens of their peers..there's something wrong with a person who does that, so who knows what else he was capable of?

by **AspirinE** » Apr 25th, '07, 19:44

joelle wrote:How do you know that many people wouldn't have died?
Obviously he had no qualms about killing the masses..for all we know, whatever craziness inside of him would have built up and in ten years he'd be a serial killer.
Blaming shit on guns doesn't always apply. It's the person behind the gun we have to think about.

Once again, ima ask "Why give a person having a bad day the freedom to solve the problem with a gun?"

Regardless of what his future is.

by **joelle** » Apr 25th, '07, 19:55

Why give over-eaters restaurants like McDonalds?
Won't those people get fat anyways, even if there is no McDonalds?
Might take a little longer, but it will happen..

by **AspirinE** » Apr 25th, '07, 20:00

joelle wrote:Why give over-eaters restaurants like McDonalds?
Won't those people get fat anyways, even if there is no McDonalds?
Might take a little longer, but it will happen..

Your choice to eat a hamburger effects your health only.
Your choice to buy a gun effects the potential of you ending another life.

Its like selling freedom to deprive someone else of freedom.

It makes no sense. Give me one reason why a person should own a gun except for having the power to end someone elses life?

by **joelle** » Apr 25th, '07, 20:03

You missed my point entirely.

But for the record, I'm not promoting guns. I hate guns. But I do believe that "guns don't kill people, people kill people."

by **AspirinE** » Apr 25th, '07, 20:15

joelle wrote:You missed my point entirely.

But for the record, I'm not promoting guns. I hate guns. But I do believe that "guns don't kill people, people kill people."

I didnt miss it, i dont get it entirely, from what i read, you, like D@vid and Bar want to say that the fault is on the person that commits the crime. Fair enough i 100% agree with that.

What im saying is availibility of guns, increses possibility of shit like this happening. I can bring up a lot of countries and their crime statistics/gun law strictness if you really want me to.

And as much as i dont like Michael Moore, he still brought up a lot of valuable points on this issue in one of his documentaries. I recommend giving it a quick view.

Guns dont kill people, people with guns kill people.

by **joelle** » Apr 25th, '07, 20:20

Ok I'll reword my point.
Obviously if there's a crazy person + a gun, the result is pretty clear.
Like if there's an over-eater + a fast food restaurant, that person will probably over-eat there. If there were no fast food restaurants, would the person still over-eat? Probably. I'm not saying murder is the same as over-eating. I'm saying the basic principle is the same. People who want to eat a lot will eat a lot..people who want to kill will kill regardless.
Obviously stricter gun laws would help prevent people from getting guns and shooting people. I'm not arguing that, either. All I'm saying is that people like this are sick, and stricter gun laws probably won't stop them from killing altogether.
I've said what I've said though and I don't really feel like repeating myself.

by **AspirinE** » Apr 25th, '07, 20:31

joelle wrote:Ok I'll reword my point.
Obviously if there's a crazy person + a gun, the result is pretty clear.
Like if there's an over-eater + a fast food restaurant, that person will probably over-eat there. If there were no fast food restaurants, would the person still over-eat? Probably. I'm not saying murder is the same as over-eating. I'm saying the basic principle is the same. People who want to eat a lot will eat a lot..people who want to kill will kill regardless.
Obviously stricter gun laws would help prevent people from getting guns and shooting people. I'm not arguing that, either. All I'm saying is that people like this are sick, and stricter gun laws probably won't stop them from killing altogether.
I've said what I've said though and I don't really feel like repeating myself.

Ok, but wen u see people in ur country over eating, do u promote healthy food, and lessen the number of open mcdonalds spots?

Everything in society is connected, you cant have gun laws, not effecting murder rates.

And for the record, not all potential murders get to the point of going on a rampage, when the mad person doesnt find a gun, he might become anti-social and be detained to the psychiatrics.

What we're arguing about here, is "action /vs/ no action".

by **joelle** » Apr 25th, '07, 20:36

Obviously stricter gun laws would help prevent people from getting guns and shooting people. I'm not arguing that, either. All I'm saying is that people like this are sick, and stricter gun laws probably won't stop them from killing altogether.

we can't predict what might have happened, especially in regards to someone who can just fire a gun off repeatedly at dozens of their peers..there's something wrong with a person who does that, so who knows what else he was capable of?

by **,-,'-{Bar}-',-,** » Apr 25th, '07, 20:36

sorry but how can you compare mcadonalds to a gun ?

crazy person + gun = mass murder

crazy person with no gun = ?????

they may still kill but it wont be as bad, take away there weopon it decreses the murde rate

by **IceAxe** » Apr 25th, '07, 20:43

the guy could've used a knife or some other shit. He wouldn't have killed as many people, but if no guns were availiable he would've found away to take someone's life if he truely wanted to.

Guns control didnt have shit to do with this. People still would've died if there wern't any guns this guy could get ahold of

by **joelle** » Apr 25th, '07, 20:44

yeah...definitely not gonna keep repeating myself.

by **,-,'-{Bar}-',-,** » Apr 25th, '07, 20:51

iceaxe187 wrote:the guy could've used a knife or some other shit. He wouldn't have killed as many people, but if no guns were availiable he would've found away to take someone's life if he truely wanted to.

Guns control didnt have shit to do with this. People still would've died if there wern't any guns this guy could get ahold of

yeh but no were near as many

by **AspirinE** » Apr 25th, '07, 20:51

iceaxe187 wrote:the guy could've used a knife or some other shit. He wouldn't have killed as many people, but if no guns were availiable he would've found away to take someone's life if he truely wanted to.

Guns control didnt have shit to do with this. People still would've died if there wern't any guns this guy could get ahold of

AVAILIBILITY god damn it. If you have guns for sale on the corner next to you, u wont have to think twice. If guns werent for sale, you would stop to think, PLUS you would have less options of how to kill a man.

Gun laws hav everything to do with this.

ima quote myself from another thread

And its not about how easily u can get a gun, its about people going off on rampages *snaps*, just like that. If ur country has legal guns, then more guns are made in ur country, more guns are lost, guns get cheaper, guns become AVAILABLE, and immorally, yet socially justifiable. Theres no reason to own a gun wat so ever, and that "defense" bullshit is stupid, if a robber comes to my house and he sees me with a gun it is MUCH MORE LIKELY that someone will get shot, out of the survival instinct. not to mention that everybody being able to easily take each others life for some property laws or some cash... demoralizes people...

if ur saying that "nothing can change yada yada" then your "democracy" aint worth shit, to prevent this kind of shit that happens, many people have to become aware and share a goal to prevent people from owning guns.

And no my country is not peacefull either, and guns arent available to people like its toilet paper rolls, but our students don't go on rampages with two hand guns, people kill people with reason (well, at least theres some rational explanation to criminal behaviour). You should abstract ur view and think about how the mentality of people changes without guns.

strickting gun laws and making them less available = less victims of guns.... PERIOD.

There is no reason for owning a gun. The law is expendable, and could only mean a positive influence. Doing nothing about it is WORSE.

And dont repeat yourself, if u dont want to, you are making no point when you're saying that availability of guns and moral acceptance of them in society doesnt affect incidents like these.

by **IceAxe** » Apr 25th, '07, 20:57

^mmmm....I understand now. Thanks for correcting :worship:

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