Israeli/Palestinian Conflict...1967 Borders

[Tash8]

Maybe, this mainly for you--I would really like to hear your input on this situation.

Obama comes out yesterday and says Israel must go back to its 1967 Borders. Now, we all know that will not happen and cannot happen. I disagree with his statement about going back to those borders but I completely agree with the idea of redefining the borders.

Going back to 1967 borders is not going to happen, Israel is defenseless with those borders. I am pretty sure the closest populated area to the border line is eight miles away. That change is not going to happen, but that does not mean Israel cannot change its borders to fit its defenses and at the same time satisfy the Palestinians.

The first thing Israel needs to do is stop making settlements in their occupied land because first, it is not right to keep building in that land you wrongfully occupy when you are also advocating for peace with the same people that want that land back.

The first thing Palestine must to do is to stop positioning itself with Hammas. You cannot get peace when you are "working" with a group that is willing to kill innocent people for their beliefs.

There really is not a good comprise to this; as one side will always feel like they got the smaller end of the stick, but if you are aiming for long time peace or a unified nation like Israel and Palestine is, you have to make some major sacrifices.

Another thing, United States is not doing itself any good by straining its relations with Israel. Though I do believe by Obama finally supporting some Arabic countries, you might see some sympathy from these newly implemented gov'ts like Tunisia/Eygpt. My last point is, U.S. or the United Nations cannot fix this problem, in fact, they cause most of the problems. They really need to step out of this matter or, at most, only mediate. This conflict can only be really resolved with communication between Israelis and Palestinians. Which is why I posted this for you Maybe, even though you do not reside in Israel (neither do I anymore) but you have been there and have seen the issues firsthand.

[slimshdy313]

Israeli can get blown to pieces and i wouldn't lose one minute of sleep over it. no offense to people from Israeli i have no problem with Jewish people but Israeli as a country is bad for the world.

[Maybe]

Firstly, Obama is an idiot and clearly lacks foreign policy knowledge. Secondly, I've been saying that Israel should adjust their borders for years, but to say that it's land that they shouldn't occupy is absurd. Israel has been the rightful owner of that land for thousands of years, but only decided to take it by force to establish a proper country. Think of how large the Arab lands are, and how little space Israelis actually occupy.

Should they be building settlements now? No, they're arrogant and it's disgusting. It's enough the stigma is negative, there's no need to fuel the fire, but they shouldn't bow down. The United States won land in wars in the past; wars that were uncalled for and unnecessary. Hell, a lot of the US soil is unoccupied, but yet, nobody but the Indian Americans acknowledge the comparison. Israel fought and won the war fair and square, to give back their reward is ridiculous.

Like I said, they should adjust their borders, but we all know that unless every Israeli is dead the Palestinians/Muslim extremists won't be happy, and that's the problem.

Israel can't be fair because it's a small Country surrounded by enemies. I think comments like the guy above (which I banned for extreme unnecessary racism) is the reason the whole world hates Muslims. Israel won't back down because of people like him, the idiots that speak for their entire base religion, even though Muslims clearly aren't retarded bigots.

It's unfortunate that two people that are exactly the same racially can't coexist.

[Tash8]

Israeli can get blown to pieces and i wouldn't lose one minute of sleep over it. no offense to people from Israeli i have no problem with Jewish people but Israeli as a country is bad for the world.

...and you are the reason we have a problem in the first place. Just leave please, don't make me go Ari Gold on you

Firstly, Obama is an idiot and clearly lacks foreign policy knowledge. Secondly, I've been saying that Israel should adjust their borders for years, but to say that it's land that they shouldn't occupy is absurd. Israel has been the rightful owner of that land for thousands of years, but only decided to take it by force to establish a proper country. Think of how large the Arab lands are, and how little space Israelis actually occupy.

That's the issue, Maybe. As long as you took it by force there will be people who are trying to take it back from you by force. Mentioning "rightful" ownership of land to me is not a good reason to take land cause after all, can we ever say we actually "own" land. Other people occupied land before us, animals occupied land before humans. Its about sharing the land, not owning it. Especially in this time of day where we have such a humongous population and population growth.

Think of how large the Arab lands are, and how little space Israelis actually occupy.

hmm...you can't really say because there is a lot of Arab countries around that you do not let the Palestinians have theirs. After all Palestinians are as far different from the near Muslim states as the Jews are from those same Muslims.

Should they be building settlements now? No, they're arrogant and it's disgusting. It's enough the stigma is negative, there's no need to fuel the fire, but they shouldn't bow down. The United States won land in wars in the past; wars that were uncalled for and unnecessary. Hell, a lot of the US soil is unoccupied, but yet, nobody but the Indian Americans acknowledge the comparison. Israel fought and won the war fair and square, to give back their reward is ridiculous.

You shouldn't compare what the U.S. did to the Israel. We all know that U.S. is wrong for what it do to Native Americans, everyone knows it is wrong for all the land its taken. You cannot find me one person that can say that U.S. was justifiable in what it did. That is part of the reason the most of the World does not agree with the U.S.

Like I said, they should adjust their borders, but we all know that unless every Israeli is dead the Palestinians/Muslim extremists won't be happy, and that's the problem.

It works both ways man, Israeli extremists won't be satisfied till Palestinians are dead, or completely get out of there. And that is the problem, but you can't count extremists. There will always be extremists. Hell, I just heard of some dude getting fired because he sympathized with Hitler. That's some stupid shit and there will always be people like that. It's about finding those people, the majority, who all just want peace. The stigma, like you said, the stigma of hatred will die off eventually. The majority are "made" to hate each other because of the war. There's even people who see Israelis and Palestinians as the same people and are simply having a civil war. You gotta understand, you cannot ever mention extremist if you are trying for peace.

Israel can't be fair because it's a small Country surrounded by enemies.

Israel has the ally of the U.S. I do not think it should fear the surrounding countries. You know the U.S. will be right there to help and I don't really understand how changing the borders and creating a two state deal would impact the dangers of Israel, at least, not any more than which it already has.

I think comments like the guy above (which I banned for extreme unnecessary racism) is the reason the whole world hates Muslims. Israel won't back down because of people like him, the idiots that speak for their entire base religion, even though Muslims clearly aren't retarded bigots.

I'm glad you banned him for racism man, that was well deserved. if he is Muslim, saying that all Muslims are hated because of it, is in itself real racist. I'm not saying you are, but the people that believe that are.

It's unfortunate that two people that are exactly the same racially can't coexist.

that's what I'm saying! so alike in so many ways but for some reason hate each other.

[Maybe]

You know me man, I'm by no means an extremist when it comes to Muslims. I understand the faults of Israel, and the realize all the mistakes they've made while forcefully taking land that they shouldn't have. It's sad, but we were close to peace when Rabin (Israelis assassinated Prime Minister) actually offered the Palestinians their land, and we were working on negotiations for adjusting the borders. Unfortunately, things won't ever repair themselves.

Also, of course I'm not being racist by saying the whole world hates Muslims. I'm generalizing, but not Muslims as a religious group, I'm generalizing Muslims as a group of people that we refer to. I understand the difference between an extremist and a person that stands up for their country, and Muslims are no different than Jews, Christians, and whatever other religion is a cause for controversy.

My comparison with the US is not to justify the act, but to explain where the Israelis fucked up. The Indians were few, and we continued to amass. Muslims are EVERYWHERE, and most within a religious group offer support to their brethren. The problem with Israel is, they're following a nonsensical religious script instead of human laws. You can't steal land, and a book full of writing claiming its yours isn't enough to justify war.

The Muslim people fall under the same category though, and I'm not talking specifically about the terrorism groups (which aren't even Muslims in my eyes, but a shadow of deformed views within an otherwise peaceful ancient religion). I talk to Muslim friends about the political situation in Israel on a daily basis, and the conclusion to the conversation is always the same: It will never end until each group stops identifying themselves with their extremist counterparts.

Obviously two Muslims with different views (one of peace and prosperity, one of death and despair) can't coexist.

Honestly man, I'm just glad to be away from Israel. I'm glad I don't classify myself as an "Israeli Jew", because my people are being shameful. Sure, I'm proud, but at the same time it's sad to see the pointless hate. At least us younger people (me and you for example) understand that we're the same, and can see through the poison that people like that idiot that posted here say.

[Maybe]

I can honestly say that i am not a good when it comes to debates....
Also, i am not going to post my thoughts on this because i am afraid i might get banned because a mod/admin will misunderstand me.

However, Israel has made a lot of promises and signed lots of truce contracts and they have shown no respect to those truce contracts.

You're from Jordan, you should know well enough that it's not all on Israel. It's tough for a small country that constantly faces random acts of terror to make negotiations with the people killing theirs... I mean, really, I'm an Israeli Jew sticking up for Palestine, why does every Muslim here (besides Tash so far) have to make me look like a jackass by not acknowledging that this problem is 50/50.

[Full_Effect]

I can honestly say that i am not a good when it comes to debates....
Also, i am not going to post my thoughts on this because i am afraid i might get banned because a mod/admin will misunderstand me.

However, Israel has made a lot of promises and signed lots of truce contracts and they have shown no respect to those truce contracts.

Congratulations Maybe u have scarred anyone away from giving their opinion. you must be so proud.

[Maybe]

I can honestly say that i am not a good when it comes to debates....
Also, i am not going to post my thoughts on this because i am afraid i might get banned because a mod/admin will misunderstand me.

However, Israel has made a lot of promises and signed lots of truce contracts and they have shown no respect to those truce contracts.

Congratulations Maybe u have scarred anyone away from giving their opinion. you must be so proud.

I manage to share my opinion without saying that all Muslims shouldn't exist. If you can't share your opinion without being a racist piece of shit, than go strap a bomb on and collect your virgins. You're just an extremist that lacks any knowledge related to the subject at hand. It's easy to say "Israel is wrong, they shouldn't exist". It's harder to defend the Muslims in this case, as so many of my family members have been killed in suicide bombings, yet, I somehow manage to not be a close-minded racist like you.

[mcZu]

The problem is, it's too complicated to point out the problem. Of course, depending on your race/religion, you're going to be biased to a certain degree, that's normal, sadly. Also, with the Palestine Papers, a lot of the corruption in the Palestinian authorities was aired out, but, also, one of the most important points that could be aired out, is that even after the Palestinian authorities gave up almost everything they could give up, Israel still said no to the peace treaty that they were working on at that time.

That is, if you're willing to believe the Palestine Papers leak. Aljazeera and the Guardian leaked these papers, but, I'll be the first to say that Aljazeera can be biased as hell, too. Even though I regard it as one of the most ''truthfull'' media outlets out right now, still, sometimes, they can be biased as hell.

The US' role in this case is comical, to say the least. Especially Obama's last speech. There is an underlying tone, of course, but I don't have the time, nor am I actually really in the mood right now, to go into that.

Bottom line, the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is way too complicated. The best thing they could do right now, is at least stop the violence, and stop the illegal settlements.

Step 2 would be to work towards a good peace treaty, but, sadly, like we have seen in history, there will be people, in both parties, that will try and fuck it all up.

And yet we're all Semites. Arabic and Hebrew belong to the same language family. Arabs and Hebrews were once brother tribes, ah well, sibling rivalry in its worst form, I suppose...

[Maybe]

I can honestly say that i am not a good when it comes to debates....
Also, i am not going to post my thoughts on this because i am afraid i might get banned because a mod/admin will misunderstand me.

However, Israel has made a lot of promises and signed lots of truce contracts and they have shown no respect to those truce contracts.

You're from Jordan, you should know well enough that it's not all on Israel. It's tough for a small country that constantly faces random acts of terror to make negotiations with the people killing theirs... I mean, really, I'm an Israeli Jew sticking up for Palestine, why does every Muslim here (besides Tash so far) have to make me look like a jackass by not acknowledging that this problem is 50/50.

Very weird of you to say that!
When have i ever claimed that Israel is the problem?
And i am originally from Palestine (My dad's Palestinian) and i go there every summer and let me tell you something...
They treat you like a garbage bag, ladies have to beg to not show their body (Because Muslim females wear that thing; i don't know what is it called in english). If i didn't have the Jordanian passport i would be treated like them.
I am not saying Israel is the problem at all, but their actions make me hate the idea of even getting to know them. Sorry, but that's the truth.
I'm sure you read the Goldstone report, please tell me you think that his report was the truth of what happened.

Again, i am not against Israel...My uncle is married to an Israeli chick so i kinda know some words in Hebrew

I hope you understand that Muslims aren't against Israelis; We learn from your scientists so....
We're just against their actions, really. You're even ashamed of what they're doing so you kinda understand my point.

No, no, man. I'm not saying you're against anything, I'm just generalizing most people in to a group (since the popular vote is against Israel on this forum). Of course I understand that a lot of what Israel does is wrong, there's no doubt about that fact. I don't blame Muslims or any group within the religion directly, but it doesn't help that they kill so many innocent people on a daily basis. Of course by "they", I mean terrorist groups, which obviously aren't the same as all Muslims, but look at the big picture... If the Palestinians identify themselves as extremists that won't back down, Israel has no choice but to suggest that they're terrorists, or at least supporters of terrorism.

Keep in mind that a lot of what Muslim papers print is false, just like a lot of what Israeli papers print is wrong. Both sides are trying to convince their people that the other side is the enemy. It's brainwashing, and unfortunately it's working.

Trust me, I understand exactly what you're saying. I'm not pro-Israel, but I can't be pro-Muslim because these problems are coming from both ends. I just wish these people would understand that they're all the same.


@mcZu: I couldn't agree more, it's complicated and people only advance the complication by masking the mistakes with fake papers and news reports.

[Full_Effect]

I can honestly say that i am not a good when it comes to debates....
Also, i am not going to post my thoughts on this because i am afraid i might get banned because a mod/admin will misunderstand me.

However, Israel has made a lot of promises and signed lots of truce contracts and they have shown no respect to those truce contracts.

Congratulations Maybe u have scarred anyone away from giving their opinion. you must be so proud.

I manage to share my opinion without saying that all Muslims shouldn't exist. If you can't share your opinion without being a racist piece of shit, than go strap a bomb on and collect your virgins. You're just an extremist that lacks any knowledge related to the subject at hand. It's easy to say "Israel is wrong, they shouldn't exist". It's harder to defend the Muslims in this case, as so many of my family members have been killed in suicide bombings, yet, I somehow manage to not be a close-minded racist like you.

ok would it make u feel better if i just said i hate the Israeli government or am i gonna get banned for that also? cause like i said i have no problems with Jewish people just when they start killing people who do so much as a march on a border, its kinda hard to like them. and watch out there could be Muslim living next to you and according to you every Muslim is considered a terrorist correct?

[Full_Effect]

btw im Lebanese so u can see where my attitude comes from towards Israel

[Maybe]

ok would it make u feel better if i just said i hate the Israeli government or am i gonna get banned for that also? cause like i said i have no problems with Jewish people just when they start killing people who do so much as a march on a border, its kinda hard to like them. and watch out there could be Muslim living next to you and according to you every Muslim is considered a terrorist correct?

Firstly, you've already established your position in this debate as a racist, thus discrediting anything you have to say from standing on any ground. Secondly, I not ONCE in any post I've made here suggested that all Muslims are terrorists, simply that many of them support terrorism, and either you're a complete idiot or you simply suffer from a terrible language barrier. Also, you're attempt at sounding "superior" is ridiculously transparent, as many of my friends are Muslim, and fortunately for me, they're the educated type. Also, the Israeli Government isn't directly at fault. Like I said before, it's easy to place blame when you're an extremist. It takes knowledge on the subject to come to a conclusion that both parties involved are wrong, and the problems persist because NEITHER SIDE is willing to negotiate at this point.

Palestinians won't negotiate because they were screwed over.

Israelis won't negotiate because too many of their people are killed by terrorism.

Palestinians won't negotiate because now they're people are getting killed.

Suicide bombing rates rise drastically during times of negotiation talk.

False paper printings and news reports spread bullshit peppered information.

Everyone blames Israel.

End of story. You want to be a racist and not acknowledge your stupid mistakes? Fine by me, just don't post here.

[mcZu]

Also, to add to this, it isn't Muslims vs Israel, nor can you be pro-Muslim in this case, because a lot of Palestinians are Christian. I wouldn't even class it as pro-Arab vs pro-Israel, because, a lot of neighboring governments only add to the problem, and don't even choose a clear side (for example; Lebanon being hard on Palestinian immigrants, by not giving them work permits).

It is basically Palestine vs Israel. So, you're either pro-Palestine, or pro-Israel. Or just neutral, of course.

Even if we all agree on that Israel stole that land, you still can't possibly say that they should just give it back. Simply put, that is impossible. People are living there now, families are living there, generations of people have been living there. You can't just ask them to leave now, even if they initially did that to the Palestinians, you just can't ask them to leave, because that would be hypocritical.

Either they agree on one nation--which is never going to happen, sadly... sorry, I just don't see that happening--or they agree on clear borders and try to live in harmony next to each other.

And, if you wish to hate someone, hate the authorities. Both the Palestinian authorities and the Israeli authorities are to blame, and we shouldn't forget the authorities before them, and before them, and before them, etc...

[mcZu]

I just wanted them to have a fair fight, where citizens aren't involved, some of my relatives were killed during that war.

Sorry, but you shouldn't say something like that. They shouldn't fight at all...