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Redundant weed legalization point.

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Re: Redundant weed legalization point.

Postby MusicBox » May 30th, '12, 12:38

CrashBand wrote:
MusicBox wrote:It will attract a buzz at first, but as with anything new will fade as the next thing hits. Seriously, those that are already drug users will find a way to use, whether it's legal or not.

Well yes. Obviously those that are already drug users will smoke regardless....

Why would it fade? If it's legalized of course the amount of users will rise. The amount that current users smoke will likely rise too as they are not restricted anymore.

I'm not really sure hoe you could justify you statement that the amount of users will stay the same. It seems absurd. Maybe if there were stats of the amount of users in Amsterdam or something.

But do you seriously think they Amsterdam will have a similar amount of pot smokers than a place where it is illegal?

Or are they still going through the phase where it's a buzz?



If drugs were legal, I guess it wouldn't matter if the numbers did rise. The main thing I was trying to get at with my original post was the benefits of legalizing. I thought this website did a great job of providing different economic effects of making weed legal: "The illegal pot dealer that is currently making their “dirty money” under the table, and possibly living on welfare or other government aid, could possibly start a profitable business. They would already have a client base, which is a key component in a sales environment. A marijuana distributing business could be created with a small amount of capital thanks to the Internet. Marijuana could be shipped out to customers, since drug trafficking would no longer be illegal. This would create desperately needed jobs across the country. It would also help increase our Gross Domestic Product (GDP), since more goods would be created/grown and sold."

http://cwhitaker.hubpages.com/hub/The-Economic-Effects-of-Legalizing-Marijuana

Also, I like how Ron Paul put this, "A system designed to protect individual liberty will have no punishments for any group and no privileges. Today, I think inner-city folks and minorities are punished unfairly in the war on drugs. For instance, Blacks make up 14% of those who use drugs, yet 36 percent of those arrested are Blacks and it ends up that 63% of those who finally end up in prison are Blacks. This has to change. We don’t have to have more courts and more prisons. We need to repeal the whole war on drugs. It isn’t working. We have already spent over $400 billion since the early 1970s, and it is wasted money. Prohibition didn’t work. Prohibition on drugs doesn’t work. So we need to come to our senses. And, absolutely, it’s a disease. We don’t treat alcoholics like this. This is a disease, and we should orient ourselves to this. That is one way you could have equal justice under the law." This is sad but true in the United States. So clearly, drug laws need to be reformed.

http://www.ronpaulhemp.com/ron-pauls-stance-on-drugs/
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Re: Redundant weed legalization point.

Postby AbramIsaac » May 30th, '12, 12:46

@CrashBand

There are stats on what legalized drugs do to usage rates.

They go down. Look it up, the percentage of new users of these drugs drop to a lower level than that of one of the strictest anti drug nations, the U.S. Portugal decriminalized ALL drugs for personal use, and the rates for new users went lower.

The same is true for many medical marijuana states, where high quality marijuana is more available. Use among high schoolers is lower.

I'm on my phone, otherwise I'd link you to the stats myself.
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Re: Redundant weed legalization point.

Postby DanWS » May 30th, '12, 17:56

Anyone read about the policy they've had implemented in Portugal for some years now, where they've decriminalized possession of all drugs?
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Re: Redundant weed legalization point.

Postby AbramIsaac » May 30th, '12, 19:22

Anyone other than me?
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Re: Redundant weed legalization point.

Postby DanWS » May 30th, '12, 23:26

AbramIsaac wrote:Anyone other than me?


Oh my bad I didn't realise you mentioned it in the post before me lol. Maybe I subconsciously read it. But yeah, it's interesting and a bold step to take. There seems to be a lot of discrepancy between the "official" figures coming out of Portugal regarding drug use and crime levels, though. The people in favour of decriminalizing drugs say that it has reduced drug use AND reduced crime, whereas those opposed to it claim the exact opposite. There was a pretty big debate about it very recently with some very senior political figures and former presidents. Definitely worth checking out.

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Re: Redundant weed legalization point.

Postby CrashBand » May 31st, '12, 05:37

AbramIsaac wrote:@CrashBand

There are stats on what legalized drugs do to usage rates.

They go down. Look it up, the percentage of new users of these drugs drop to a lower level than that of one of the strictest anti drug nations, the U.S. Portugal decriminalized ALL drugs for personal use, and the rates for new users went lower.

The same is true for many medical marijuana states, where high quality marijuana is more available. Use among high schoolers is lower.

I'm on my phone, otherwise I'd link you to the stats myself.

Hmmm suprising. Mind giving links? that's a pretty big to say it reduces usage.

@MusicBox. Yeah agreed with the rest of your post I just jumped to the conclusion that legalization of drugs would cause usage to inrease as it becomes more 'accessible'.
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Re: Redundant weed legalization point.

Postby AbramIsaac » May 31st, '12, 07:08

Portugal's drug abuse rate drops after decriminalization: http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/20 ... -portugal/

The Dutch have a usage rate of 20 percent, compared to our 42 in the US ( http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle/200 ... drug_polic ). The Swiss have legalized heroin for some users, and found that it reduced crime and consumption among heavy users ( http://druglawreform.info/en/issues/har ... witzerland ).

I'm sure I could find some more stuff, but it's a bitch to do on my phone.
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Re: Redundant weed legalization point.

Postby CrashBand » Jun 1st, '12, 02:29

AbramIsaac wrote:Portugal's drug abuse rate drops after decriminalization: http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/20 ... -portugal/

The Dutch have a usage rate of 20 percent, compared to our 42 in the US ( http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle/200 ... drug_polic ). The Swiss have legalized heroin for some users, and found that it reduced crime and consumption among heavy users ( http://druglawreform.info/en/issues/har ... witzerland ).

I'm sure I could find some more stuff, but it's a bitch to do on my phone.

Interesting if decriminalization lowers usage rates. I still have some apprehension towards that being conclusive as similar to DanWS I recall hearing a debate where people on either side take different things from the evidence.

But yeah, I mean what are the main arguments for criminalization? are there any substantial ones?
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Re: Redundant weed legalization point.

Postby Doodlebug » Jun 15th, '12, 13:29

My life was destroyed by pot, other drugs and booze.

Thing is, I've never smoked, used and I rarely if ever - drink.

My parents > abusive pot smokers, drug users and boozers.
I have lived in cars, in a tent in the middle of no where, in abandoned homes w/ no water-power or food. In their hazes - we were beat, molested and almost killed - ongoing. I can't say how many times from the age of realization - I took pills to try to not wake the next day.

My siblings - abusive pot smokers, eventually into harder drugs.
I watched my older sister be prostituted for my parents pot, they tried me but I put the guy in the hospital. I watched her brilliant mind turn to a dim fog, and my other sister turn into an alcoholic - hit from all sides, continually - making me stronger, and them - drift into a shadow of the people they once were.

My best friends - - One her mom traded her physically for drugs (pot mainly), one her dad beat on her when he was high and drunk, another ran away - some older teens got her and tricked her out for their pot. I saw them pull her body out after she OD'd.

I keep my mind clear, my body clean - and no way am I going to let anything, not even a person, hold me up on puppet strings. To me, these things are nothing but trouble, they get a grip on you and .. it all spirals down.

Life is tough - sure it is. But who are you? You gonna go head on like a mack-truck? Or you going to stand off to the side and -need- a dish of this-or-that to give you fake courage?

You know I play AION - an online game. These games, are much like real life. Your enemies come for you, and it's not usually 1-2 but a group. Just like.. how life tosses a sh*t load at us at once...

The first thing you want to do is run.. the flight. But if you stand strong, face them - don't freak - then it gets easier over time and things fall into place. Most run. I once chased 2 enemies that rifted and was chasing FIVE of mine - an all of us the same level. I got them - one by one. Yeah as I was tearing down the last one, of course the five jump in.

You have fight or flight.. and you got to choose. To me, dipping into this stuff.. is flight.
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Re: Redundant weed legalization point.

Postby AbramIsaac » Jun 15th, '12, 18:51

I'm sorry these things happened to you, but marijuana has no serious addiction potential.

These awful things are the result of weak people, not a powerful drug.
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Re: Redundant weed legalization point.

Postby ShadysDisciple » Jun 25th, '12, 03:47

Doodlebug wrote:. I saw them pull her body out after she OD'd.

Are you saying she OD'd on pot? Or another drug? Because if you're saying she OD'd on weed then that is false as no one has ever fatally overdosed on marijuana. And i'm not being condescending or rude i'm genuinely unsure of what you are saying.
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Re: Redundant weed legalization point.

Postby Doodlebug » Jul 16th, '12, 21:59

ShadysDisciple wrote:
Doodlebug wrote:. I saw them pull her body out after she OD'd.

Are you saying she OD'd on pot? Or another drug? Because if you're saying she OD'd on weed then that is false as no one has ever fatally overdosed on marijuana. And i'm not being condescending or rude i'm genuinely unsure of what you are saying.


You have to excuse me, I really don't know alot about marijuana.

They partied alot - did a ton of pot, sold her often to afford it. All I know is, pot was their thing and she died. I was not that old, her either, so I don't remember alot - only the anger and pain.

I used to watch them pimping her out to the maintenance guy, and he'd hand over the small bags as she went back crying - walking slowly behind the older kids. No one there cared, my apt complex was full of prostitutes, drug dealers and users.

I just never understood the hold it has on people or the appeal.
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Re: Redundant weed legalization point.

Postby Guess_Who » Jul 20th, '12, 15:49

I am in favor of the legalization of weed.

Those who want drugs will do even if they are illegal and drug trafficking and corruption would disappear , and this is a big problem in some countries.

Also some there are some "legal drugs" like alcohol or tobacco that can be worse than marijuana. And weed is not worse tha some "medicines" sold in legal pharmacies. And yes, comparison with the alcohol is inevitable in this case, marijuana is widely used in a manner quite similar to alcohol, for the same purpose.

Another point would be that it can have some medical propierties for some ill patients.

Anyway this is controversial and there also some good arguments against too.
Last edited by Guess_Who on Jul 20th, '12, 15:53, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Redundant weed legalization point.

Postby DƎRDYPK » Jul 20th, '12, 15:52

legalize the sticky god grown green everywhere & get crazy niggas off bath salts.
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