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Democracy

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Democracy

Postby Unlyricallyrics » Oct 31st, '12, 16:03

How do you guys feel about democracy. I feel that it's outdated and should be replaced in the western world with some other form of government. Yet i feel that developing countries should still pursue working democracy.

I can also back up my claims if anyone is interested in discussing this topic.
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Re: Democracy

Postby classthe_king » Oct 31st, '12, 16:16

In a realistic world a democracy is without question the best form of government because the government is held accountable by the people through reelection so they have to at least act like they have the people's interests in mind. What other form of government would you want them to change it too?

In a perfect world I think a dictatorship would be the best form of government if the dictator was a smart and selfless leader. That way he could just get shit done and help the country and doesn't have to worry about pleasing idiots and doesn't have to take money from corporations. However, I wouldn't trust any one person with that job in our world.
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Re: Democracy

Postby Unlyricallyrics » Oct 31st, '12, 17:38

classthe_king wrote:In a realistic world a democracy is without question the best form of government because the government is held accountable by the people through reelection so they have to at least act like they have the people's interests in mind. What other form of government would you want them to change it too?

In a perfect world I think a dictatorship would be the best form of government if the dictator was a smart and selfless leader. That way he could just get shit done and help the country and doesn't have to worry about pleasing idiots and doesn't have to take money from corporations. However, I wouldn't trust any one person with that job in our world.

"government is held accountable by the people through reelection so they have to at least act like they have the people's interests in mind"

This is exactly the problem. Politicians ACT as if they care about people when in reality most of them only care about getting paid. And then people believe this act. Besides I dont see why acting that you care but really not caring at all is any better than not caring at all and showing it.
But i think the biggest problem in democracy is that ingorant people vote for ingorant people. Looking at the current presidental elections in usa is good example. Democracy makes politics a game. People vote politicians who have charm, money and looks. Sure there is also people that vote based on views and such but if 1 voter is like that and 100 vote based on irrelevant qualities i wouldnt exactly call that ideal.
The way i see it, democracy only works in perfect world where people actually know something about politics and actually vote the best candidates. This isnt the case tho and that's why people shouldnt be given the power to decide who rules them.
Also even if there was politician that actually knew what would be the best for the people and the country and the world. But if the people dont agree with him (because they're not smart enough, eg economy, how many actually knows how it works) let's say increasing taxes, cuts or whatever people can vote those politicians out leaving the populists and those who are only in it for the money in power.
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Re: Democracy

Postby classthe_king » Oct 31st, '12, 18:53

This is exactly the problem. Politicians ACT as if they care about people when in reality most of them only care about getting paid. And then people believe this act. Besides I dont see why acting that you care but really not caring at all is any better than not caring at all and showing it.


Because they still let people have some of their wishes, even if they're getting fucked over on most of the major stuff, where as in another form of government the people wouldn't get anything.

But i think the biggest problem in democracy is that ingorant people vote for ingorant people. Looking at the current presidental elections in usa is good example. Democracy makes politics a game. People vote politicians who have charm, money and looks. Sure there is also people that vote based on views and such but if 1 voter is like that and 100 vote based on irrelevant qualities i wouldnt exactly call that ideal.


I completely agree with this, there have even been studies that show that most people are too dumb to vote for the candidate with their best interests in mind.

The way i see it, democracy only works in perfect world where people actually know something about politics and actually vote the best candidates. This isnt the case tho and that's why people shouldnt be given the power to decide who rules them.


Democracy is just as flawed as everything humans try to do because humans are flawed. Everything only works perfectly in a perfect world. If you look at most countries though, their democracies aren't nearly as flawed as ours (mine if you don't live in the US). If we got Citizen's United overturned and got corporation's influence out of politics that would go a long way to improving it.

Also even if there was politician that actually knew what would be the best for the people and the country and the world. But if the people dont agree with him (because they're not smart enough, eg economy, how many actually knows how it works) let's say increasing taxes, cuts or whatever people can vote those politicians out leaving the populists and those who are only in it for the money in power.


That's another good point and it shows the flaws in our system but every form of government comes with flaws. I still would like to see you tell me what government should be in place of democracy.
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Re: Democracy

Postby Unlyricallyrics » Oct 31st, '12, 21:30

classthe_king wrote: I still would like to see you tell me what government should be in place of democracy.

No idea. I mean democracy is good form of government no doubt but it has it's problems. That's why i feel that developed countries shouldnt think democracy as the ultimate government but instead come up with something new. That's the main point. Realizing that democracy isnt the best possible option.

First step could be removing all the power concerning economy out of the hands of politicians to the hands of those with some kind of knowledge on the subject. This is actually what EU does with that Greece mess.
I feel that it would be rather simple to come up with better form of government that what democracy is if some smart people would actually start pondering this seriosly and im sure there is lot of books and stuff about possible alternatives for democracy. Im sure even i could come up with something better with enough time.
Then there is the problem that what kinda politician in democratic country would want to make this change.
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Re: Democracy

Postby classthe_king » Oct 31st, '12, 22:57

Unlyricallyrics wrote:
classthe_king wrote: I still would like to see you tell me what government should be in place of democracy.

No idea. I mean democracy is good form of government no doubt but it has it's problems. That's why i feel that developed countries shouldnt think democracy as the ultimate government but instead come up with something new. That's the main point. Realizing that democracy isnt the best possible option.

First step could be removing all the power concerning economy out of the hands of politicians to the hands of those with some kind of knowledge on the subject. This is actually what EU does with that Greece mess.
I feel that it would be rather simple to come up with better form of government that what democracy is if some smart people would actually start pondering this seriosly and im sure there is lot of books and stuff about possible alternatives for democracy. Im sure even i could come up with something better with enough time.
Then there is the problem that what kinda politician in democratic country would want to make this change.


The problem is any alternate to democracy is that no matter what it is, the people don't vote them in and the people can't vote them out. In an ideal scenario this would mean we somehow pick the smartest people and put them in and they fix everything and it's great but that's just as unrealistic as every voter being knowledgeable enough to elect the best candidates. This isn't a perfect world and I would never want an alternate to democracy because no matter what it would turn into a totalitarian government.
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Re: Democracy

Postby CrashBand » Nov 1st, '12, 01:28

classthe_king wrote:In a perfect world I think a dictatorship would be the best form of government if the dictator was a smart and selfless leader. That way he could just get shit done and help the country and doesn't have to worry about pleasing idiots and doesn't have to take money from corporations. However, I wouldn't trust any one person with that job in our world.

Lol. No.
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Re: Democracy

Postby classthe_king » Nov 1st, '12, 01:31

CrashBand wrote:
classthe_king wrote:In a perfect world I think a dictatorship would be the best form of government if the dictator was a smart and selfless leader. That way he could just get shit done and help the country and doesn't have to worry about pleasing idiots and doesn't have to take money from corporations. However, I wouldn't trust any one person with that job in our world.

Lol. No.


Yes.
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Re: Democracy

Postby CrashBand » Nov 1st, '12, 01:32

A dictator?

hmmmmm..

Still no.
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Re: Democracy

Postby classthe_king » Nov 1st, '12, 01:44

CrashBand wrote:A dictator?

hmmmmm..

Still no.


What would be better than having an extremely smart and selfless dictator/king/leader?
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Re: Democracy

Postby CrashBand » Nov 1st, '12, 06:49

Anything that doesn't mean one person has full, unquestioned power.
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Re: Democracy

Postby classthe_king » Nov 1st, '12, 13:40

CrashBand wrote:Anything that doesn't mean one person has full, unquestioned power.


If the person did a great job though then there would be no problem. Nigga give me the crown and I'll have this country fixed before Eminem releases his next album
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Re: Democracy

Postby Unlyricallyrics » Nov 1st, '12, 16:48

classthe_king wrote:
The problem is any alternate to democracy is that no matter what it is, the people don't vote them in and the people can't vote them out. In an ideal scenario this would mean we somehow pick the smartest people and put them in and they fix everything and it's great but that's just as unrealistic as every voter being knowledgeable enough to elect the best candidates. This isn't a perfect world and I would never want an alternate to democracy because no matter what it would turn into a totalitarian government.

For democratic country the democracy is the best option. There is a lot possible governments. They're not necassarily as simple as this one, nothing prevents from creating really complex system ruling the country, you just need to be creative. Trying to come up with something as simple as democracy that works as well is impossible.
Plus you need to take into consideration the possibilities of advancing technology.
Who knows maybe we're ruled by AIs or computers in the next century. Or maybe some drug or machine makes Rawl's veil of ignorance possible.

classthe_king wrote:If the person did a great job though then there would be no problem. ***** give me the crown and I'll have this country fixed before Eminem releases his next album

And maybe there is more people like this who can be given power without the fear of totalitarian government.
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Re: Democracy

Postby classthe_king » Nov 1st, '12, 17:59

Unlyricallyrics wrote:For democratic country the democracy is the best option. There is a lot possible governments. They're not necassarily as simple as this one, nothing prevents from creating really complex system ruling the country, you just need to be creative. Trying to come up with something as simple as democracy that works as well is impossible.
Plus you need to take into consideration the possibilities of advancing technology.
Who knows maybe we're ruled by AIs or computers in the next century. Or maybe some drug or machine makes Rawl's veil of ignorance possible


I would never in a million years want to be ruled by computers. That's a horrible idea, and I don't know how you consider our government simple, it's actually extremely complex. I don't know how complex you would want it to be or what that would even entail. The problem isn't the form of government it's the population. That's what we need to change by educating people more.
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Re: Democracy

Postby Unlyricallyrics » Nov 1st, '12, 18:25

classthe_king wrote:
Unlyricallyrics wrote:For democratic country the democracy is the best option. There is a lot possible governments. They're not necassarily as simple as this one, nothing prevents from creating really complex system ruling the country, you just need to be creative. Trying to come up with something as simple as democracy that works as well is impossible.
Plus you need to take into consideration the possibilities of advancing technology.
Who knows maybe we're ruled by AIs or computers in the next century. Or maybe some drug or machine makes Rawl's veil of ignorance possible


I would never in a million years want to be ruled by computers. That's a horrible idea, and I don't know how you consider our government simple, it's actually extremely complex. I don't know how complex you would want it to be or what that would even entail. The problem isn't the form of government it's the population. That's what we need to change by educating people more.

Why not? Computers could make the best possible decisions because they wont let emotions or their opinions affect anything. They wouldnt be greedy like humans or wouldnt get blinded by power or anything like that.
And simple like, people vote, you get elected or you dont. Of course that's pretty simplified but still it's rather simple.
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