The TRshady Forum became read-only in December 2014. The 10 year history will live on, in this archive.
Continue the discussion with the new home for the Eminem and Hip Hop discussion: HipHopShelter.com.

Morals

Fellow ladies and fella Master-Debaters, discuss serious topics.

Re: Morals

Postby SliK » Dec 3rd, '12, 04:01

classthe_king wrote:A child doesn't have the mental capacity to understand what is right and what is wrong.

But he understands that he must breathe, eat, sleep and drink.. Because these are all universal, instinctual behaviors. "Not murdering someone" most certainly is not.
SliK
Under The Influence
Under The Influence
 
Posts: 4980
Joined: Dec 17th, '09, 06:03

Re: Morals

Postby classthe_king » Dec 3rd, '12, 04:04

So? Murdering is still wrong.
You think your personal attacks make up for what you lack?
User avatar
classthe_king
Addict
Addict
 
Posts: 14163
Joined: Feb 12th, '09, 02:30
Location: Ohio
Gender: Male

Re: Morals

Postby CrashBand » Dec 3rd, '12, 04:15

I think you can argue something is universally wrong if it is bringing down the aggregate well-being of living creatures.

Therefore needlessly and arbitrarily murdering someone is universally wrong.
I'm not tryin to be rude, but I sincerely wanna fuck the taste out of your mouth
User avatar
CrashBand
Role Model
Role Model
 
Posts: 3579
Joined: Feb 17th, '12, 10:10
Location: New Zealand
Gender: Male

Re: Morals

Postby SliK » Dec 3rd, '12, 04:58

Well, I guess I disagree.
SliK
Under The Influence
Under The Influence
 
Posts: 4980
Joined: Dec 17th, '09, 06:03

Re: Morals

Postby CrashBand » Dec 3rd, '12, 05:23

Would you agree that a universe where every living creature is in the worst possible suffering is bad?
Last edited by CrashBand on Dec 3rd, '12, 06:18, edited 1 time in total.
I'm not tryin to be rude, but I sincerely wanna fuck the taste out of your mouth
User avatar
CrashBand
Role Model
Role Model
 
Posts: 3579
Joined: Feb 17th, '12, 10:10
Location: New Zealand
Gender: Male

Re: Morals

Postby Willy » Dec 3rd, '12, 06:10

Morality stems from empathy. That's why killing someone or kicking a puppy in the face evokes a strong response.

Humans are usually built with empathy hardwired into the brain. It has allowed us to evolve as social animals.

This explains how cultures from different parts of the world have similar laws. I think it would be difficult for a culture to not value life, as it is against our nature.
Image

Fuck Willou
User avatar
Willy
Soldier
Soldier
 
Posts: 1745
Joined: Oct 2nd, '10, 19:58
Location: Poopville
Gender: Male

Re: Morals

Postby SliK » Dec 3rd, '12, 11:50

WilyMo021 wrote:Morality stems from empathy. That's why killing someone or kicking a puppy in the face evokes a strong response.

Humans are usually built with empathy hardwired into the brain. It has allowed us to evolve as social animals.

This explains how cultures from different parts of the world have similar laws. I think it would be difficult for a culture to not value life, as it is against our nature.

Yeah, humans have empathy. So actions evoke an emotional response and we either 'like' or 'dislike' actions. The action its self is neither right nor wrong. Right and wrong are completely subjective lmao, how can you say an arbitrary action is intrinsically wrong?
SliK
Under The Influence
Under The Influence
 
Posts: 4980
Joined: Dec 17th, '09, 06:03

Re: Morals

Postby Table » Dec 3rd, '12, 12:04

Committing homicide for no apparent reason is morally wrong in almost every known society, I believe. Sacrifices, capital punishments etc don't count, neither does the ideology of an individual. (strictly talking about what all societies deem as immoral.) Again, like the OP said, no action is right or wrong. It's just that certain morals are necessary for the persistence of a species.
User avatar
Table
Trailer Trash
Trailer Trash
 
Posts: 107
Joined: May 4th, '12, 17:48
Gender: Male

Re: Morals

Postby SliK » Dec 3rd, '12, 12:26

CrashBand wrote:Would you agree that a universe where every living creature is in the worst possible suffering is bad?

Good and bad are different to right and wrong.
I would say it's bad from the perspective of someone who can empathize with living creatures.
If that parallel universe does exist, along with an infinite amount of others, I wouldn't (and couldn't) say it is wrong. It just is.
SliK
Under The Influence
Under The Influence
 
Posts: 4980
Joined: Dec 17th, '09, 06:03

Re: Morals

Postby CrashBand » Dec 3rd, '12, 14:28

SliK wrote:
CrashBand wrote:Would you agree that a universe where every living creature is in the worst possible suffering is bad?

Good and bad are different to right and wrong.
I would say it's bad from the perspective of someone who can empathize with living creatures.
If that parallel universe does exist, along with an infinite amount of others, I wouldn't (and couldn't) say it is wrong. It just is.

So I think we can agree that this place would be bad, in every sense of the word.

So then you must concede that any action to move out of this state is good.

And in my view, is right.

But yes, we still have the "is-ought" problem. i.e. why should we not do bad things.
I'm not tryin to be rude, but I sincerely wanna fuck the taste out of your mouth
User avatar
CrashBand
Role Model
Role Model
 
Posts: 3579
Joined: Feb 17th, '12, 10:10
Location: New Zealand
Gender: Male

Re: Morals

Postby classthe_king » Dec 3rd, '12, 18:28

Just because some people don't see murder as wrong doesn't mean that murder is not wrong, it means their view on murder is wrong. You use the middle ages as why it isn't universal but they didn't believe that the earth revolved around the sun. Does that mean that the earth revolving around the sun isn't a universal truth? No, it just means that their society got it wrong. Babies don't even know what the sun is, let alone that we revolve around it. That doesn't mean it's not still true that. Murder is the same thing.
You think your personal attacks make up for what you lack?
User avatar
classthe_king
Addict
Addict
 
Posts: 14163
Joined: Feb 12th, '09, 02:30
Location: Ohio
Gender: Male

Re: Morals

Postby Willy » Dec 3rd, '12, 19:25

SliK wrote:
WilyMo021 wrote:Morality stems from empathy. That's why killing someone or kicking a puppy in the face evokes a strong response.

Humans are usually built with empathy hardwired into the brain. It has allowed us to evolve as social animals.

This explains how cultures from different parts of the world have similar laws. I think it would be difficult for a culture to not value life, as it is against our nature.

Yeah, humans have empathy. So actions evoke an emotional response and we either 'like' or 'dislike' actions. The action its self is neither right nor wrong. Right and wrong are completely subjective lmao, how can you say an arbitrary action is intrinsically wrong?


I'm not saying any one action is intrinsically right or wrong. I'm explaining how most people, and consequently most societies have similar moral outlooks. It's not just a coincidence... humans are hardwired with empathy, and empathy is the foundation for morality. No action is intrinsically right or wrong, but people view shit through a moral lens. Our moral lens is built with empathy-glass, and that's why regardless of eyesight most people end up seeing the same shit.
Image

Fuck Willou
User avatar
Willy
Soldier
Soldier
 
Posts: 1745
Joined: Oct 2nd, '10, 19:58
Location: Poopville
Gender: Male

Re: Morals

Postby CrashBand » Dec 3rd, '12, 22:09

classthe_king wrote:Just because some people don't see murder as wrong doesn't mean that murder is not wrong, it means their view on murder is wrong. You use the middle ages as why it isn't universal but they didn't believe that the earth revolved around the sun. Does that mean that the earth revolving around the sun isn't a universal truth? No, it just means that their society got it wrong. Babies don't even know what the sun is, let alone that we revolve around it. That doesn't mean it's not still true that. Murder is the same thing.

Yeah but we still need to prove that there are universal truths/morals.
I'm not tryin to be rude, but I sincerely wanna fuck the taste out of your mouth
User avatar
CrashBand
Role Model
Role Model
 
Posts: 3579
Joined: Feb 17th, '12, 10:10
Location: New Zealand
Gender: Male

Re: Morals

Postby Willy » Dec 4th, '12, 01:55

Another problem with saying morality is completely relative is moral progression becomes basically impossible. A society would never feel the need to change, because their views on right and wrong are relative.
Image

Fuck Willou
User avatar
Willy
Soldier
Soldier
 
Posts: 1745
Joined: Oct 2nd, '10, 19:58
Location: Poopville
Gender: Male

Re: Morals

Postby CrashBand » Dec 4th, '12, 13:32

WilyMo021 wrote:Another problem with saying morality is completely relative is moral progression becomes basically impossible. A society would never feel the need to change, because their views on right and wrong are relative.

Moral relativism has several little intrinsic problems, including the one you mentioned.
I'm not tryin to be rude, but I sincerely wanna fuck the taste out of your mouth
User avatar
CrashBand
Role Model
Role Model
 
Posts: 3579
Joined: Feb 17th, '12, 10:10
Location: New Zealand
Gender: Male

PreviousNext

Return to Serious Debate



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users