Racism

[AbramIsaac]

Hmmm...

I suppose it depends on the person. That's a really fine line for me, because it comes down to what works the best. In the case that a racial term is most effective, and assuming that it's justified, then I don't think the personal feelings of someone actually have to come into play. Unless you actually believe that there is something wrong with the person you're arguing with because of their race, I don't think you can be considered a racist. Is the idea that the use of the term is ever justifiable racist in itself?

Personally, I wouldn't use the term...well, I say that, but I use it a lot. Just not in argumentative situations. I use it in a comical way, because sometimes racial stereotypes ring true. You know, a black guy that really likes chicken, grape drink, menthol cigarettes, and shitty rap music. That's funny to me, not a reason to hate someone though. I don't actually believe that he is like that because of his race, but it does make me laugh when it happens that way.

I have trouble understanding people who are seriously racist. Stereotypes crack me up, but that's where it stops. While things like cultural and language differences do come into play when dealing with people of different races, to consider yourself superior to another based on the color of your skin is just ridiculous.

Unless we're talking about basketball...and then, I mean, come on. That shit is self-evident.

[SliK]

Surely if you are okay with using it as a tool you are somewhat racist.

It is just a means to an end though, as far as I'm concerned. Language as a whole is a tool, so if you're trying to hurt someone the smartest thing you could do is attack them where it hurts the most. Obviously it isn't nice, but neither is making fun if someone's looks, intelligence, weight, style, sexuality, etc. it doesn't mean you necissarily have a problem with that person or think they aren't entitled to the same rights as anyone else but you attack what you see. I don't hate ugly people, a lot of my friends are ugly tbh lol, but I've called people ugly before to make them feel bad. I don't see why racial slurs are any different, other than the stigma they carry.

[AbramIsaac]

To me, racism needs to be the motivation, rather than the action. While some actions or terms carry racist connotations, for the person to actually be a racist, I feel like the motivation for these actions needs to be rooted in racism. If the motivation simply isn't there, then it seems to me that it is more of a means to an end, as SliK said.

I'm white though. Maybe I'd feel differently about racism and discrimination if I weren't a white American male.

[SliK]

I''m white though. Maybe I'd feel differently about racism and discrimination if I weren't a white American male.

Lol good point, racism is like water off a duck's back for white people.

Logically though, I think what you said about motivation vs actions is spot on.

[EminemBase]

But, if you are saying "you fat cunt" / "you ugly cunt" as an insult, you may not have a prejudice against fat/ugly people. But by using it as an insult (negative connotations) you are virtually agreeing that it is "bad"/worse to be fat/ugly.

And the same for a racial slur. By saying it as an insult you are kind of "being okay with" the arbitrary negative connotations.

Well first of all, fat is negative.

Secondly, that's not true at all. You've never said something to someone you know will annoy them, but which you don't truly feel or believe?

It's a silly sound, a collection of letters that form a word, in all actuality - it means nothing, and these days it's little more than a shock bullet. It's referencing the negative history, but it's using it as a shortcut to annoy that person. I wouldn't do it because it's lame, but it's not racist.

[CrashBand]

Hmmmm....I dunno. I fully comprehend what you're saying.

But I still I have a problem with knowingly using a racist insult as a tool for genuinely insulting someone - and then saying it's alright because "you're fine with black people".

[SliK]

No it's not alright, it just doesn't make him a racist.

[CrashBand]

Sub in "I'm not racist" for "it's alright" then.

I dunno, I always hear "I'm not racist, but Asian drivers suck lol" or an equivalent.

But I understand in your example we are assuming this guy has no problem whatsoever with black people, so kinda by by definition he isn't racist.

But, he's alright with racially insulting someone? - with the intention to bring them down.

[space_bone]

Person X is in an argument with an African American man, and the African American is frustrating Person X to the point that Person X feels very angry and dislikes this man (solely based on the argument and nothing to do with colour). Person X wants to hurt this man because he hates him, so he says the most hurtful thing he can to disparage this individual, so he makes a racial slur. Let's just say he uses the word *****.

Person X is using a racial slur to hurt this man, but does that make him racist?

In my opinion it does not. There is a big difference between saying something horrible in the heat of the moment (Michael Richards) and having the belief that one colour or creed is superior/inferior to the rest (Hitler).

Person X certainly used a racial slur as a racist comment, but was it racism?

this scenario should not be tolerated on any level, whether it be; friends, colleagues, athletes, marriage-relationships, politics, debate, classroom, peers, sibliings, etc..

"outbreak of drug roulette"

[Kill You]

The worst driving combination is an old lesbian Asian women.

Now I'm sexist, homophobic, racist and ageist.

Boo-Yah!

That's a funny picture though lol. Until she manslaughters like 12 people on her way to Gay-A and Bingo.

[EminemBase]

Hmmmm....I dunno. I fully comprehend what you're saying.

But I still I have a problem with knowingly using a racist insult as a tool for genuinely insulting someone - and then saying it's alright because "you're fine with black people".

Well I wouldn't do it, but because it's lame.

I agree it's a lame thing to do, it's cheap, but it's not racist. It CAN be racist, but it's not racist by default to do it - depends how the person really feels.

And it's not saying 'because you're fine with black people' (who said it was just black btw, racism isn't reserved for black people), - it's saying that it's an arbitrary insult meant to provoke, a cheap shortcut to an obvious characteristic.

I think it's actually... patronizing how people make EXCEPTIONS for race, and disability. In the sense of, all races are equal - and disabled people deserve the same rights: yet there should be no racial humour, or 'disabled humour'? I'm not saying I do or find it funny, I'm saying - from a logical standpoint; that's a condescending and misguided, unfair privilege. It's not viewing all races or al people as equal if you reserve negative thinking from them. Do black people not make fun of each other? or do they deserve special privilege for jokes made against them? this is a cowardly and misguided way of thinking, it's with the best intent, but not healthy, and not equal.

You may say 'well people can't help what colour their skin is' - people can't help most things. People can't help how tall they are, if they have a big nose... if they're bald, but do we not joke about those things? should there not be insults or should somebody be called prejudice if they use insults regarding those characteristics which they also cannot help?

Look at the characteristics objectively:

Race: a biological factor, of which a person cannot help.

Height: a biological factor, of which a person cannot help.

So what's the difference in insulting somebody for height over race? there isn't one. Other than the deep and volatile history of race relations. But we'll never truly move past them if it's always a hush-hush issue. Race will always be a sensitive and over-catuious area, which also isn't healthy. It's patronizing and positive-discrimination to give race a special status of 'no-go' when we all insult each other on a myriad of other factors, all of which we cannot control.

All that matters is intent, and context.

If Louis CK says "shut up you fucking n1kka" towards an audience member in a show, but they aren't even black: clearly - the intent is comical and ironic, meant to bring attention to the word, and the context is reversed, so the word loses its offensive meaning. And OBVIOUSLY Louis CK is not really feeling racism when using that word, he's using it as a prop, a shortcut to humour.

Similarly, if one person insults another using a racial slur by where the word is not really 'felt' and by where the word is being used as a shortcut, in a context of anger and provocation... that's not racism and it's no different than saying "you bald cunt", "you blonde bitch" etc. we just give these kinds of insults much less weight or gravitas because there's no history of mass abuse or tension. But that's wrong; that's making an invisible connection OF race to all people, that's still SEEING race and modifying our thoughts and behavior to suit it, even if for a positive intent.

I agree that it's probably not smart, and it's a tacky thing to do. And everything I've just explained means fuck all when in the heat of the moment somebody feels racially insulted. But I think we should all fucking loosen up, words mean nothing, we give them meaning, who fucking cares? call me whatever you like, I only get offended if I choose to. When you look at things entirely logically, and separate yourself from aimless, hyper-sensitive emotions - you're bulletproof.

[CrashBand]

All that matters is intent, and context.

Yeah, I get that this is practically it.

It's just being a cunt as opposed to Person X being racist.

Even if they aren't racist, I have a problem with people doing/saying racist things - unless it's irony/satire.

[CrashBand]

And EmBase, are you against the proposition of a certain race/sex getting privileges if they have been subject to discrimination for many years?

For example, easier university entrance pathways.

[AbramIsaac]

lmao

[Blu]

Oh shiiit hahahaha