Domestic Violence

[SliK]

"There's no reason to hit a woman" is probably the saying that makes my blood boil the most. Of course there are fucking REASONS to, we just don't do it (generally).

I overheard a conversation between some people in my biology class at Uni last week and old mate basically said what I said in the line above and used Chris Brown and Rihanna as an example. I must admit I cracked up laughing but he has a point. He said:
"Chris Brown obviously never should have beat her up but he must've had a reason.. I don't think she was just sitting there going 'I might have lasagna for dinn-' BANG"

His point was that men definitely have reasons to hit women, but very rarely is it justified. I quite often wonder, if a man can do something that warrants a beating then why can't a woman? For example, if a man cheats on his girlfriend and her big brother beats him up, would it be fair for her next partner to beat her up if she cheats on him?

Personally I don't think violence is the answer to anything, but women play a lot of mind games that can really hurt, a lot worse than a punch in the stomach or face would hurt tbh. Some women hide behind the fact society frowns on violence against women and will use it as a shield to protect themselves against the men they are hurting emotionally.

Should a man be punished more for beating up a woman than another man? There are a lot of women that are bigger than men, is it fair to say that a strong woman can't be expected to defend herself but a weak man can? Violence is violence. Right is right and wrong is wrong. Why does that change when gender is brought into it? Aren't men and women equal..?

Ideally I'd like to touch on two issues in this thread..

1) Is there any justifiable circumstance where a man can hit a woman?
(a) If yes, what makes violence against a woman justifiable?
(b) If no, are there any justifiable circumstances where a man or woman can hit a man?

2) Should there be any distinction between gender in assult cases? I.E. Should person X be punished more severely than person Y for the same crime, because it was against a woman?

[tadpole25]

I don't think it's right for a man to hit a woman, but honestly, I don't even think it's right for a man to hit another man.

The only acceptable case to use physical force against someone (and that includes women) is if they threaten you with a weapon or use physical force against you. And, that way I've been taught, is to restrain them while causing the least amount of injury possible (unless they have a weapon).

I'm no feminist, but statistically, men are overwhelmingly more violent than women, and often they are stronger, which is the basis of these generalizations.

But I understand what you're saying. There's a difference between something that provokes a person to act and something that justifies a person to act. Nothing between two people is ever two people's fault.

I'm sure some of the time, when domestic abuse happens, the man felt the woman did something wrong him to him (and in some cases it's true), however he loses any moral highground he has when he hits her.

[SliK]

The laws we follow that someone would have to break to commit assult are no less socially constructed than ideas like monogamy. I was really hoping more people would give their opinion so we could touch on issues like this but it seems the retards have driven away most of the intelligent members.

I miss class Q.Q

[tadpole25]

And as for your question about whether it's more acceptable for a man to beat up a woman for vice-versa, I do think courts base this on stereotypes and generalizations.

When two people are in a physical altercation, in addition to gender, courts also factor in height and weight as diagnostic of a greater ability to inflict harm or want to inflict harm on someone.

Basically, if you are 300 pounds and 6 feet tall, you are assumed to be stronger than someone who is a 170 pounds and 5 foot 11, which isn't grounded in any science, just old wives tales.

[Kill You]

I think if a woman really deserves it then yes, her husband should be allowed to beat the bitch. Women beat on men ALL THE TIME and apparently we "deserve it". A lot of times its play-fighting, sure, but that doesn't make it any more right. Why can a woman scratch my face all to hell, punch me, beat on me, all that shit but if I even push the bitch I would get the cops called on me.

You're right that women use domestic violence as a shield or an excuse. Example being a coworker of mine was having an argument with his girlfriend (I was there so I know what happened) and she slapped him and kept on going at him. So he just simply pushed her back, away from him and the bitch calls the cops. I told them what really went down and there were no charges but I just think it's ridiculous how one-sided everything has become. Women wanted more rights and they got them but now men are victims of sexism. And it's not right and it'll keep on going because women are tricky creatures.

If a woman comes at me with a knife, do you think I'm going to just let the bitch stab me because she's a woman? No, I'm going to defend myself. I'm going to punch the bitch in the face, cut her vagina, doing something. Even if she was just coming at me with no weapon I'd do something. There's nothing wrong with defending yourself.

I don't support domestic violence at the end of the day but I do support fairness. A man SHOULD NOT be punished more than a woman for the same crime.

[EminemInsider]

I just think it's hilarious how ending "violence against women" is considered a priority these days.

You don't see any groups dedicated toward ending violence against men. Why not? Men are far more likely to be the victims of violence than women.

There are two possible answers:

1. Women are sweet, innocent, benevolent creatures. They're better than men, and must not be hit. How dare you bruise the pretty, delicate little face of that flower, otherwise known as a "woman?!"

2. "Men are so much stronger than women, it's not a fair fight!" Of course, nobody applies this logic across the board.

If a 5'9" 145 pound guy walks into a bar and starts talking shit to a 6'3" 245 pound guy, and the latter beats the shit out of him, you know what the response is? "You got what you deserved, bro. Don't talk shit, bro. Don't let your mouth write a check your fists can't cash, bro."

Scrawny guys getting the shit kicked out of them by much bigger guys happens all the time.

But if some scrawny guy beats his wife, who may be about the same size/strength as him, it's one of the lowest things in the world. "Ur not a REAL man if u hit a woman. Hit a man, that makes u a REALLLL maaaan."


There are so many more important issues in the world to address than "ending violence against women." Why in the world do we care so much if some delicate little woman has bruises on her face and "she just can't leave" the abusive relationship (which I think is a hilarious claim, also)?

"Violence against women" is pretty much a non-issue, in my mind.

[Guess_Who]

I overheard a conversation between some people in my biology class at Uni last week and old mate basically said what I said in the line above and used Chris Brown and Rihanna as an example. I must admit I cracked up laughing but he has a point. He said:
"Chris Brown obviously never should have beat her up but he must've had a reason.. I don't think she was just sitting there going 'I might have lasagna for dinn-' BANG"

What your friend said it's just stupid. There is never a reason for a man to hit a woman (or other way round). Sure she annoyed him. But instead of beat her up, he could just leave her.

1) Is there any justifiable circumstance where a man can hit a woman?
(a) If yes, what makes violence against a woman justifiable?
(b) If no, are there any justifiable circumstances where a man or woman can hit a man?

2) Should there be any distinction between gender in assult cases? I.E. Should person X be punished more severely than person Y for the same crime, because it was against a woman?

1/ No. If you can't have a relation with someone for whatever the reasons, leave that person. Violence against women is a serious issue here, 650 women died last year beaten by their husbands. Did they do something to deserve that?? No. Probably the most stupid thing they did was marry an asshole.

I apply the same rule other way round. No woman should beat up a man. But let's be honest, it's more weird that this happens, and men can deffend themselves better, usually men are bigger and stronger.(usually) By stadistics the men who are abused are much much less. Spanish ones:

650 women died in 2012 for domestic violence

32 men died

2/ No. Laws should be the same for everybody.

[SliK]

Guess_Who my point was why is it worse for a man to beat up a woman than another man?

This is touching on what EminemInsider mentioned, it's funny because at work (I work in a cinema) there was this 15 year old fucking smart arse who was throwing malteasers (candy) at this dude who was about 17-18 and this guy just punched him once in the face, the kid cried but stopped throwing candy and the general consensus was that the dipshit got what he deserved.

Then there was an incident where a girl was doing roughly the same thing (throwing candy, yelling, talking, abusing customers) and a man got up and slapped her in her face. It was a far less violent assult (it didn't bring her to tears, he had an open hand as opposed to a clenched fist and the blow knocked her face to the side as opposed to the 15 year old boy who had his head punched into a wall) yet this time the police were called and the man was dealt with by the authorities.

In both incidents I think they both deserved it but it fucking pisses me off that some of the same people, women in particular, say "the kid was asking for it" but "slapping that woman was an appalling act".

How do you feel about each of those incidents?

[Guess_Who]

Ok, the way I see it. We are comparing 2 different things.

Both cases you are talking about in the cinema are different.

One were a fight between 2 teens. One punched the other in the face...etc...

The other case, I understand a man (older) slapped a girl. Imagine if someone near to 30 or older, whatever is a man or a woman slaps a teen...I think it's a whole different story.
Imagine that girl (it could be a boy doesn't matter) goes to his/her house and say that a 40 year old man slapped her/him. It's not the same than a fight between teenagers.

And in case they were around the same age, I would treat it equally. I see as bad that a random guy slaps a girl than the other way round.

On the main topic, Why is better or worse for a man to beat up a woman or another man? Is not, is just different, one more time. And both things should be treated differently.

If you go out any saturday night , you can see men fighting often....specially when they are drunk.
Men tend to be more violent. But most of the times when a man beat up a woman is his couple, girlfriend or wife. And we are talking about domestic violence. I think we should differenciate between domestic violence and a fight in the street.

For example a couple of weeks ago, there was a little car accident here, a man and a woman were involved. Noone was injured but both started a fight in the street. In that case doesn't matter if it's a man and a woman or 2 men. I would judge the behavior equally.

But domestic violence, in a relation is a whole different story, and clearly women there are the losers there when you see the statistics. Men are more violent in relations than women. At leats in my country. And I'm sure in the rest of the world too.

[SliK]

I agree domestic violence is a problem, it certainly isn't an appropriate way for a man to treat a woman. But it would be equally bad if that man was going out and beating up random men in the street. Obviously if that woman stays with me man and gets beaten repeatedly then it's going to do her more harm but realistically she should walk away.

[Guess_Who]

I agree, but many times women has no other than stay with them. If men threaten them. I remember a case that happened here time ago, he told her he would kill her family if she ever left him. He did.

But yeah I think those women should run away and put everything in hands of the police. But the problem is that many times the police doesn't act until is too late (at least here).

I just think it's a different kind of violence, than 2 men fighting. (Which is bad too)

[Trimss]

First of all, if I'm having an argument with my girlfriend and she's slapping me for absolutely no reason, like you know, that DOES happen in couples.. then I'd slap her back. I'd never hit a woman if she didn't hit me first, or provoked me.

I'm in a relationship for two years now, and I have to admit that if I found out my girlfriend was cheating on me after all the shit I've done for her, and the sacrifices.. Then I'd probably slap her or beat her too. Like I'm being totally honest with y'all, I might regret it after but that's something that would destroy me and thus make me do some stupid shit like that.

I don't think a man should be judged differently because he snapped on a woman. However, I do think that judges and courts should take into consideration if the girl was the first one to throw fists.

[HeySamantha]

Hard discussion, I can see it from both sides. I don't think the "well, she hit me first" excuse flies, though. Say you have a 150lbs guy standing at the typical 5'9, comes at me. I'm a petite 5'1 girl.. just because I whacked him first doesn't give him the right to slap or beat me up.

I think there is a big difference between slapping someone around/being rough with them, and beating someone up. TO ME, a girl getting beaten up is like what happened to Rhianna.. a fucked up face. A slap or an arm grab and pull are just that.

I don't think anyone should hit anyone, girl and guy, guy and guy, girl and girl .. you get my point. There are a lot of ways to get yourself out of a bad situation before it escalates to that stage in the argument.

As for the cheating element.. my dad just left my mom after 35 years for another woman. I know how much something like this can devastate a person. If you're unhappy.. let the person know, try to work out and move on if nothing can be saved. No one should be cheated on. You knew damn well that you were unhappy and looking for someone else before you were 2 inches from the-other-person's face.

[SliK]

Hard discussion, I can see it from both sides. I don't think the "well, she hit me first" excuse flies, though. Say you have a 150lbs guy standing at the typical 5'9, comes at me. I'm a petite 5'1 girl.. just because I whacked him first doesn't give him the right to slap or beat me up.

Actually that's exactly what it means. Don't attack someone who's more powerful than you just because you think he wouldn't/shouldn't hit you back. This goes back to what I was saying in my initial post about women using this mentality as a shield. You would absolutely deserve to be hit back, it's called self defense. Otherwise use your words like you would expect of him.

I think there is a big difference between slapping someone around/being rough with them, and beating someone up. TO ME, a girl getting beaten up is like what happened to Rhianna.. a fucked up face. A slap or an arm grab and pull are just that.

TO ME, that's what it's like when a guy gets beaten up too. What is the difference between a 150lb man beating up a 200lb man, or a man beating up a woman? If both the 200lb man and the woman end up looking like Rihanna and both genders feel pain, then it's equally wrong.

I don't think anyone should hit anyone, girl and guy, guy and guy, girl and girl .. you get my point. There are a lot of ways to get yourself out of a bad situation before it escalates to that stage in the argument.

You're contradicting your first paragraph here a little. Your first paragraph strongly implied that it is more acceptable for YOU to hit a man than a man to hit you. Wrong.

As for the cheating element.. my dad just left my mom after 35 years for another woman. I know how much something like this can devastate a person. If you're unhappy.. let the person know, try to work out and move on if nothing can be saved. No one should be cheated on. You knew damn well that you were unhappy and looking for someone else before you were 2 inches from the-other-person's face.

Kind of irrelevant to the discussion.

[Atone]

Lol, if i can go for as long as i have without even raising my voice at a woman, after all the bullshit i went thru in my life, i think it's fair to say if a guy hits a girl he's a punk ass bitch