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Who Would Win In A Fight? (Superman vs Batman)

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Who would win?

Superman
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53%
Batman
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Total votes : 30

Re: Who Would Win In A Fight? (Superman vs Batman)

Postby Snakebeast » Sep 19th, '14, 02:00

dead prez wrote:
Snakebeast wrote:Aside from Batman and his crew, DC is boring as fuck compared to Marvel.

Watchmen alone puts dc head and shoulders above marvel

Watchmen alone does not make up for the fifty tons of bullshit DC has decided to heap upon its franchises over the years. Convoluted storylines that make little to no sense, an attempt at revamping their series only to fail miserably and alienate their fanbase, and character deaths that have little to no meaning since they get resurrected soon after.

Marvel has some bullshit, yes (Spiderman Reign comes to mind) but the ultimate universe along with the current earth 616 stuff is pretty fucking good.

Though if you can give me some current-era DC stuff that's good, I'll certainly read it. It has quite a few storylines I like (Hush for example) but it's difficult trying to trudge through the dogshit to find them.
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Re: Who Would Win In A Fight? (Superman vs Batman)

Postby dead prez » Sep 19th, '14, 02:11

I dont really care about the main continuity of either verse, lol. But both are a pain in the ads to follow and have no balls with killing off main characters. Dcs side you have them unable to kill Bruce and hell even ducking Jason Todd and had him revived by some stupid assull that puts dragonball abuse to shame. Marvel haowever couldn't kill captain either and had that terrible radioactive sperm for spidey that killed Mary Jane lol...
Anyways watchmen absolutely does, have you read it? It isn't called the best graphic novel of all tikenfor no reason

But anything written by Alan Moore under dc flatlines Marvel, including swamp thing and killing joke as well as his superman stories. And frankly I don't care for most marvel heroes myself, X-Men is lame, so is Thor,and hulk is an unspeakably awful character.iron man is cool I guess. But batman and Rorschach make up for them. Read swamp thing, dark knight returns, kingdom come, I guess.
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Re: Who Would Win In A Fight? (Superman vs Batman)

Postby Snakebeast » Sep 19th, '14, 03:09

Amazing Spiderman rebooted and is fairly easy to follow. Series like Superior Spiderman were actually really fucking good, and Spider-man in general is just great. I'd definitely recommend Ultimate Spiderman (the original and the new one) along with pretty much the entire ultimateverse.

I have read Watchmen, and yes, it's great (mixed feelings about the movie, though). But it's existence doesn't mean the rest of DC is good at all.

Like I said, DC has a lot of good storylines, but it has more shit ones, and I've read nothing quite on the same scale as The Civil War.

What's wrong with X-Men? I find them rather interesting, actually.

I'll definitely read swamp thing and kingdom come if I can find them. Most good Batman storylines I've read already (Killing Joke, Hush, Dark Knight Returns) and I must say, Frank Miller is a fucking Batman stan without shame.

Oh, and I know a lot of people hate him, but I just fucking love Deadpool.
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Re: Who Would Win In A Fight? (Superman vs Batman)

Postby TheBoss123 » Sep 19th, '14, 03:28

I mean no one is ever going to convince a marvel/DC fan that the other is better. I like both, leaning largely to DC.
I like the year zero batman stuff. and the the new 52 justice league comics.

Hush was incredible too.
Im pretty new to purchasing and reading comics, having only started over this past summer. Im mostly familiar by the movies, tv shows etc.
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All you can do it handle it, worst thing you can do is panic
Use it to your advantage, avoid insanity manage
To conquer, every obstacle, make impossible possible
Even when winning illogical, losing is still far from optional.." -T.I.
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Re: Who Would Win In A Fight? (Superman vs Batman)

Postby dead prez » Sep 19th, '14, 04:12

I might check out Amazing Spiderman than, if it captures that sense of fun that he should have. Spiderman just never really appealed to me, I dunno, the whole self loathing relatable hero schtick I just find kinda boring and reminds me of Nite Owl, lol. I probably would like him though, I know he has the best rogues gallery next to Batman. Ironman is cool sorta, and Captain America, I always liked his aesthetic. Hulk is unbelievable stupid as a character though, and is highly overrated and Thor is just eh. X-men, always bothered me thematically cause of how it tries to have that whole "racism" theme with the mutants but it just doesn't apply when you have fucking characters that can level the moon and mindwipe the entire human race, fearing them and trying to wipe out their powers is reasonable, imo. It especially sucks in the movies when other superheroes aren't present and makes them all the more glaring, I know in marvel universe, it's a double standard when they don't really create a big fuss over other superheroes (at least not that I know of). Still, I just find it to be heavyhanded thematicaly.


And I only really care for standalone titles, tbh, can't be arsed following stories with confusing alternate timelines and shit.

Agree with Frank Miller, he's kinda overrrated outside of DKR, actually. Alan Moore will always be the comics God (of the west). I just love the comics medium but don't care about superheroes, unless it something like watchmen. I'd recommend manga more, actually especially lone wolf and cub, berserk, and nausicaa. I guess Sandman is good, haven't read it myself, but people love that series, and I have it on my to read list but Astro City looks very interesting as does Transmetroplitan.

Ditto, on the watchmen movie, it completely fails as an adaptation and missed just about everything that made the comic so good. It's only comes across as decent because the source material is so strong that it can't help but be gud, even though I'm certain zack snyder is keen on trying to butcher and bowdlerize it as much possible.
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Re: Who Would Win In A Fight? (Superman vs Batman)

Postby dead prez » Sep 19th, '14, 04:19

You know, actually, I should probably hate DC for sanctioning that before watchmen tripe. Which has literally ZERO reason to exist other than to be a plain as day cashgrab. A prequel to watchmen is unbeliavbly pointless and just sounds like it'd be redundant as fuck. HEY LETS MAKE PREQUELS TO CHARACTERS THAT WERE ALREADY FULLY DEVELOPED BY THE BOOK, AND MAKING A PREQUEL TO IT WOULD JUST DEVALUE THE STORY AND LESSEN THE IMPACT. Jesus, not to mention it can't even work as a pulpy serial caus there's no rogues gallery to speak of, all the criminals were ineffectual and rorschach and the comedian were probably more brutal than any fucking masked criminal out there. I have a hunch that the only reason watchmen remained intact for so long without a stupid cashgrab, was because they had nowhere to go with the story. Making a watchmen prequel is every bit as stupid as making a Maus prequel, or persepolis prequel, probably even more.
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Re: Who Would Win In A Fight? (Superman vs Batman)

Postby Snakebeast » Sep 20th, '14, 03:16

Both Amazing Spiderman and Ultimate Spiderman balance humour and the whole angst thing rather well. Ultimate Spider-man actually pokes fun at many of the stupider mainstream universe villains like the Shocker and Kraven.

You captured X-Men perfectly, but THAT'S why it's good. It's perfectly reasonable to be scared of these people, but at the same time these people can't change what they are. That kind of moral grey area makes for some interesting stories.
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Re: Who Would Win In A Fight? (Superman vs Batman)

Postby dead prez » Sep 20th, '14, 03:54

But see I side with the humans in fearing them and wanting to remove their powers or whatever, the movies are especially egregious since there aren't like other superheroes so really they just feel powerless and there isn't the double standard aspect to boot. (Not sure how xmen coincided with like avengers, actually there's an avengers vs xmen comic out but I heard it's a pile of dross.) I'd totally sanction in forcing to wipe out their gene or making them muggles or whatever (no I don't think they should be put in concentration camps though, but the use of sentinels to stop them from abusing their power is reasonable), it's really just not applicable at all to our society and comes across as heavy handed. If you try to tackle a topic like racism you don't have a certain race be better than another in just about every way lest you make it lose it's value. And you're right they could have somewhat made it more legimate if they didn't paint the humans as the unquestionable villains, and are just plain wrong in hating the mutants. But by painting them as the obviously evil and racist group, that whole moral complexity theme goes down the shitter.

Just one question before I read that spiderman comic, is it in it's own continuity where it doesn't deal with bullshit outside sources or is it subject to that.

But superhero comics unless they're standalone titles (like watchmen, dark knight returns (and yes I'm aware dark knight 2 is terrible), astro city, top ten, etc etc.) are kinda pointless to follow since it always reset and it's a never ending cycle. Plus they don't have the balls to kill of captain america or batman and had to use terrible deux ex machima to bring them back to life which would put DB to shame (at least in dragonball it worked in the story and we were given the rules as to waht you can wish for beforehand). They can't even kill off a worthless character like Jason Todd, lol.
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Re: Who Would Win In A Fight? (Superman vs Batman)

Postby Snakebeast » Sep 20th, '14, 04:07

But see I side with the humans in fearing them and wanting to remove their powers or whatever, the movies are especially egregious since there aren't like other superheroes so really they just feel powerless and there isn't the double standard aspect to boot. (Not sure how xmen coincided with like avengers, actually there's an avengers vs xmen comic out but I heard it's a pile of dross.) I'd totally sanction in forcing to wipe out their gene or making them muggles or whatever (no I don't think they should be put in concentration camps though, but the use of sentinels to stop them from abusing their power is reasonable), it's really just not applicable at all to our society and comes across as heavy handed. If you try to tackle a topic like racism you don't have a certain race be better than another in just about every way lest you make it lose it's value. And you're right they could have somewhat made it more legimate if they didn't paint the humans as the unquestionable villains, and are just plain wrong in hating the mutants. But by painting them as the obviously evil and racist group, that whole moral complexity theme goes down the shitter.

There is actually an event called M-Day where most mutants lose their powers. Sounds great, right? Except that most humans are inevitably unreasonable fuckwads (just like in real life) and find this to be the perfect opportunity to murder the former mutants due to their lack of powers. I'm also fairly sure this event can't be repeated again. Something about Scarlett Witch's power or whatever.

Aside from this, what can humans do? Would you say that these mutants should be killed because of how they're born? Should you eliminate the gifts they were born with? Who has the right to decide who has these gifts and who doesn't?

In the comics, aside from some crazy psycho villains, I think the human population aren't really painted as evil, just understandably and predictably scared of these weirdos with superpowers.

Just one question before I read that spiderman comic, is it in it's own continuity where it doesn't deal with bullshit outside sources or is it subject to that.

Both are part of large continuities. Superior Spider-man (I recommend you start with that before reading the revamped Amazing Spider-man cause it explains some shit) and Amazing Spider-man don't really deal with that much outside bullshit unless it's the avengers or something reacting to something Spider-man did.

Ultimate Spiderman does have a lot more "bullshit outside sources", but they mostly fit within the plot and work well with the story. At least until it gets to the Clone Saga, where the story begins to almost feel like a fucking fanfiction for a bit before going back to not being shit.

But superhero comics unless they're standalone titles (like watchmen, dark knight returns (and yes I'm aware dark knight 2 is terrible), astro city, top ten, etc etc.) are kinda pointless to follow since it always reset and it's a never ending cycle. Plus they don't have the balls to kill of captain america or batman and had to use terrible deux ex machima to bring them back to life which would put DB to shame (at least in dragonball it worked in the story and we were given the rules as to waht you can wish for beforehand). They can't even kill off a worthless character like Jason Todd, lol.


In the original Ultimate Spider-man (with Peter Parker as the main character) they kill off quite a few notable characters without bringing them back to life. Probably why I like the ultimate-verse so much.
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Re: Who Would Win In A Fight? (Superman vs Batman)

Postby dead prez » Sep 20th, '14, 04:36

I did enjoy the last two xmen movies btw (Future Past and that origin story with magneto and Xavier), I'm just saying that having "mature" themes doesn't mean it's complex or deep or anything. Lots of pulpy shounen have mature themes (like death note) but rarely ever touch upon the vigilante aspects with a ten foot pole. And yeah I haven't read xmen, but I'm just saying you can't take a serious theme like "racism" and expect to explore it to a profound extent if one side is so obivously superior to another and the other side are obviously "racist and evil". The other side I'm talking about is of course the human government, not the every day layman. Hell they even go so far as to making magneto a hero (now any ways I'm aware he used to be a complete bastard), it's so obvious that the writers want us to sympathize with mutants and "accept every race and blah blah" but meh.

As for what the humans should do, there's no golden bullet, but yeah I might sound like a complete asshole but anyone who's given the gene should have he powers removed or something before the mutant's born (not aborted though and like I said they shouldn't be sent to concentration camps or whatever). I dunno, like I said something that fantastical isn't applicable at all to our world. Go read miracleman the last issue deals with this, and a lot of other issues like the ability to give humans "powers" and shit.
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Re: Who Would Win In A Fight? (Superman vs Batman)

Postby Snakebeast » Sep 20th, '14, 04:52

dead prez wrote:I did enjoy the last two xmen movies btw (Future Past and that origin story with magneto and Xavier), I'm just saying that having "mature" themes doesn't mean it's complex or deep or anything. Lots of pulpy shounen have mature themes (like death note) but rarely ever touch upon the vigilante aspects with a ten foot pole. And yeah I haven't read xmen, but I'm just saying you can't take a serious theme like "racism" and expect to explore it to a profound extent if one side is so obivously superior to another and the other side are obviously "racist and evil". The other side I'm talking about is of course the human government, not the every day layman. Hell they even go so far as to making magneto a hero (now any ways I'm aware he used to be a complete bastard), it's so obvious that the writers want us to sympathize with mutants and "accept every race and blah blah" but meh.

As for what the humans should do, there's no golden bullet, but yeah I might sound like a complete asshole but anyone who's given the gene should have he powers removed or something before the mutant's born (not aborted though and like I said they shouldn't be sent to concentration camps or whatever). I dunno, like I said something that fantastical isn't applicable at all to our world. Go read miracleman the last issue deals with this, and a lot of other issues like the ability to give humans "powers" and shit.

I'll definitely go read miracleman (once again, if I can find it).

Regarding X-Men and mutants in general: I really don't think they portray one side as "racist and evil". Both sides have their extremists, and both sides have tendencies to attach the "racist and evil" stereotype to the other side, which causes conflict. Magneto's really not that much of a villain, to be honest. When you get down to it, he just wants mutants to not be discriminated. Yes, his methods tend to be extreme, but, just like everybody else, he's doing what he does because he feels it's right.

And it's not just the powerful mutants capable of defending themselves being discriminated against. Would it be fair to capture and control a mutant with the power to change his hair colour? Once again, kind of an iffy situtation. And the whole "remove the gene before it's born" I feel like if it could be done, it'd have been done already.

Current X-Men is a clusterfuck and little makes sense right now (even when I stop every few pages to catch up on backstory), but from what I can gather, there's really no good or bad guys, just a bunch of dudes trying to protect their own faction.
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Re: Who Would Win In A Fight? (Superman vs Batman)

Postby dead prez » Sep 20th, '14, 05:02

There's a website that has miracleman but it's pretty damn hard to read (the garish colors and text are just a pain in the ass), I'd just recommending dl it instead. Unless you're against torrents, the are reprinting it now but it used to be in legal limbo with issues being insanely expensive.

I'm not just talking about omega level mutants like iceman, jean grey, and magneto. But even someone like wolverine would be extremely dangerous in our world and he's one of the more mundane characters, and is there any actual mutants with "useless powers", but are for all intents and purposes "human"? Cause from what I've seen just about any mutant placed into our world would be extremely dangerous.
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Re: Who Would Win In A Fight? (Superman vs Batman)

Postby Snakebeast » Sep 20th, '14, 05:08

dead prez wrote:There's a website that has miracleman but it's pretty damn hard to read (the garish colors and text are just a pain in the ass), I'd just recommending dl it instead. Unless you're against torrents, the are reprinting it now but it used to be in legal limbo with issues being insanely expensive.

Alright, I'll go on piratebay. I usually avoid torrenting shit if I can, probably due to laziness.

dead prez wrote:I'm not just talking about omega level mutants like iceman, jean grey, and magneto. But even someone like wolverine would be extremely dangerous in our world and he's one of the more mundane characters, and is there any actual mutants with "useless powers", but are for all intents and purposes "human"? Cause from what I've seen just about any mutant placed into our world would be extremely dangerous.


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Re: Who Would Win In A Fight? (Superman vs Batman)

Postby dead prez » Sep 20th, '14, 05:14

Uh the ability to generate concussive blasts out of thin air is far as useless can possibly be, lol.
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Re: Who Would Win In A Fight? (Superman vs Batman)

Postby Snakebeast » Sep 20th, '14, 05:20

dead prez wrote:Uh the ability to generate concussive blasts out of thin air is far as useless can possibly be, lol.

Oh, I was talking about the animated cartoon, where she seemed to get her ass kicked alot.

Though if from the comics:

Cypher, whose ability is....language. Seriously, that's a thing, you can look it up. And Skin, who's ability is stretchy skin.
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