Bigger Than Music

[Slim Fiasco]

Hey guys, what’s up? I’m a new member obviously, but I’ve been checking out the site every now and then for at least a year so I wanted to do a little posting as well. What I’m going to discuss isn’t anything new or that you haven’t heard already, but I believe that I sum it up well and I think it’s a nice way to introduce myself.

Ok so, what I’m implying on is the GOAT discussion and as far as that goes my choice would be either Em or Nas, but as you can assume I’m leaning more towards Marshall. For start, at his best, IMO he had the best combination of flow/rhyming/voice/lyrics and everything else that falls under the definition of MCing:

1. His flow has been ridiculous throughout the years and the most diverse I believe. He has changed it on every album and even on songs within the album itself (and even within a single verse ala Criminal). You can start from Infinite, '97 Bonnie & Clyde, Dead Wrong, Role Model, The Why I Am, Kim, Renegade, Sing For The Moment, Underground up to Going Through Changes and the difference is rather amazing. Not that Biggie's flow wasn't versatile but it's not even close if you ask me (and if you look at other GOAT contenders, their flow has basically remained unchanged). Plus his flow was so effortless yet so angry and used to sound like speaking and flowing at the same time. And he kept it "confusing" with all the rhymes thrown in between. Which is all also proven in the Freestyle Manual compilation.

2. Lyrics; I find this to be the 2nd quarter of what we (I) judge MCs on (flow, lyrics, discography and impact). Admittedly he has fallen off since The Eminem Show but who hasn't really? And besides Nas and Jay, he's been doing much better than the other candidates, plus his impact is still much bigger than the first 2 I mentioned. But anyway, if we split lyrics on rhyming, meaning and complexity I'll break it down like this:

a) Rhyming - There isn't much to be said about this, Eminem can rhyme the sh*t out of you and we all know how, when and where.

b) Meaning - Some people may have the perception that all he talks about is his daughter and his Mom but I wouldn't agree with that. He has creative songs like Stan and As The Worlds Turns, braggadocio rap like Role Model, political like Square Dance, "judgemental" like Who Knew and Marshall Mathers etc. He has done it in a funny way, introspective way and every way you would like him to. Sure his downs may be lower than someone else’s but his ups can keep up with anyone's.

c) Complexity - Ok, punch-lines and metaphors aren't his strong side, or not as strong as Big L's and Lupe’s/Jay's let's say, but he has had his moments. And it's more that his dopeness comes in a more obvious way, but you can't take away anything from lines like:

"Just trying to buy me some time then I remembered this magic trick
Den Den Den Den Den Den, Go go gadget dick! "

3. Discography; some rappers may “have” him on quantity but his first 3 albums are classic in every way if you ask me. And besides Illmatic, I think they can go against any album really. But more on that in the "impact" part. As far as his bad albums, they are worse than let's say Jay's but IMO Em's 3 best>Jay's 3 best so there you go. But even if the discog category doesn't go to Marshall, I still think he wins on the strength of everything else.

4. Impact - Ok, he may not have had the impact on the great MCs after him, like Rakim had, but it's not like there have been any MCs that great to even come out. However though, Em is the biggest “bigger than music” persona in Hip-Hop and unlike Rakim, his influence isn't just within Hip-Hop. I wasn't there to say, but as far as I know, I don't think that anyone has gotten into Hip-Hop because of Rakim, or even if they had, it's nowhere near the amount of people that Em has attracted to. The difference in my point of view also, is that in countries like mine Hip-Hop was barely known until Em, and after that!? Well, let me say that I know teachers that know the name Marshall Bruce Mathers! When Em blew up, it was like an Eminem mania going on. Kids bleaching their hair, and new Hip-Hop fans were spawned massively. Now you can say that popularity isn't to be considered, but the difference with Em is that he has stayed like that for over a decade (!) unlike idiots like Britney and Backstreet Toys whose names are completely irrelevant today. Plus, his impact manifested through parents, the gay community and what not, people were actually protesting against him. And rap has been "bad for the children" since forever but it wasn't until Eminem that things like that started to happen.

Oh and one last thought i.e. to quote Rakim himself:

"If Em was black, he'd be the next Mohamed Ali"

[IrishShady]

[DarkTiger]

Spoken from the minds of most of all around here,including me.

[Slim Fiasco]

Well thank you guys, I appreciate the response!

[RealSickLindley]

I don't agree with your choice of 'GOATS'..

BUT..

It's so refreshing for people on here to have the awareness of 'I'm not a big Jay fan, but i can admit that he overall has a better discography through the years..' or that dudes that Lupe do have him on the metaphor front..

Eminem will always be my favourite rapper, but after growing up a bit, I realised that there were rappers that were dropping classics whilst Em was working in a Burger place, and are still around today But let's see where Em goes with his next album, if he gets his second classic (my opinion obvs) then he's back on track, and i'll start putting him alongside the greats.

[Slim Fiasco]

I don't agree with your choice of 'GOATS'..

BUT..

It's so refreshing for people on here to have the awareness of 'I'm not a big Jay fan, but i can admit that he overall has a better discography through the years..' or that dudes that Lupe do have him on the metaphor front..

Eminem will always be my favourite rapper, but after growing up a bit, I realised that there were rappers that were dropping classics whilst Em was working in a Burger place, and are still around today But let's see where Em goes with his next album, if he gets his second classic (my opinion obvs) then he's back on track, and i'll start putting him alongside the greats.

Sure man, I always try to keep it objective and am completely OK with the concept of agreeing to disagree. I respect your opinion and yeah, I'm a big Lupe fan as well. The dude deserves his props. And I get your point, but to me it's even more impressive that he came up after all those legends and still was fresh as one could be. Appreciate your feedback though, peace.

[Graphic]

I've always found it impressive on Em's part that there are so many people who claim to hate rap, but love Eminem. It really ranges from metalheads to beliebers—"I hate rap, but I do love Eminem!"...It just goes to show that there is something universally appealing about his music, even if you aren't a fan of hip hop.

It's also impressive that he attracts so many people to the genre of hip hop. Before getting into Eminem, I wasn't nearly as big a fan of hip hop. Apparently that's common.

[Slim Fiasco]

I've always found it impressive on Em's part that there are so many people who claim to hate rap, but love Eminem. It really ranges from metalheads to beliebers—"I hate rap, but I do love Eminem!"...It just goes to show that there is something universally appealing about his music, even if you aren't a fan of hip hop.

It's also impressive that he attracts so many people to the genre of hip hop. Before getting into Eminem, I wasn't nearly as big a fan of hip hop. Apparently that's common.

Exactly! And I remember driving with my uncle last summer, so Not Afraid dropped and he was like "I love this song", lol. And he's far from a Hip-Hop fan.

[Slim Fiasco]

Damn dude, thats a fucking nice first post!

Thanks, haha!

[Sam.]

Epic .

[Slim Fiasco]

Epic .

Thanks.

[dead prez]

Jay z definitely rivals him in terms of flow,in being versatile. Nas is pretty hit or miss and rarely switches it up, but when he does go in, he's definitely a contender for best flow as well. (Take it in blood last verse, Verbal Intercourse, Eye for an Eye, Fast Life, Last verse of Memory Lane, Pretty much all of illmatic-96 when he was killing features).

But if you want mcs that definitely rival him in terms of being glued to the beat than Black Though and Gift of Gab from Blackalicious are definitely up there.

2) Rhyming wise if you mean rhyme words in the most creative way possible that other mcs barely think of than yeah, he's arguably the best at that.

Rhyme patterns Elzhi, One Be Lo, Diabolic, Big Pun among others rival him

Many of Eminem's songs for the most part are introsepctive and deal with what he faces at the moment, you can say that they have a broader meaning and be political comment, but you could really make this case for any other mc as well.

Eminem is a master of humor, but he should never attempt wordplay ever again, cause the punchlines in Recovery were straight embarassing. Even in Infinite in they were nothing special really, other than turning idioms into literal phrases. But he doesn't touch Lupe Fiasco, Nas, Jay z, and a whole slew of other mcs in that regard.

3) He had a great three album run, but he by no means takes this discography wise, a lot of mcs who people may consider less skilled than him flat out beat him in this regard.

4) Pac had a huge impact too, but if you're talking strictly influence and confined within the Hip Hop community than no he is by no means the most influential. If you mean stealing the masses and breaking boundaries by getting people who wouldn't normally listen to Hip Hop, before him than yeah he takes it.

[Satire]

Lol @ Dead Prez trying to act relevant with his argument sparking. Do I have to kick your ass again like I used to?

[dead prez]

Lol @ Dead Prez trying to act relevant with his argument sparking. Do I have to kick your ass again like I used to?

Concession accepted

[Satire]

Lol @ Dead Prez trying to act relevant with his argument sparking. Do I have to kick your ass again like I used to?

Concession accepted

Also, inb4 EminemInsider