Label Influence

[Jimmy Conway]

Has any artist on a label ever had 100% creative freedom on an album? Nirvana was pressured to have cleaner sound on Nevermind, then on In Utero they had songs remixed and there was rumors that Geffen threatened to not release the album because of the sound. They were the biggest group in the U.S at the time. At what point do you get control?

Eminem has always had people putting pressure on him in one way or another. The MTV friendly radio singles. The fact that Relapse 2 was scrapped and this mainstream friendly Recovery was made. I'm sure you can argue he just changed his mind, but I in no way believe that. It was pressure from a company seeing that the public wasn't knocking doors down to hear about serial killers. The public wants songs with Rihanna about break ups so they can listen to it and think of that one that they love even though it's bad for them.

It confuses me, because once you get to a certain point, you are going to make money, no matter what. Eminem could make Encore 2 and it would sell. Just because it's Eminem and people are going to give it a chance. After being in the business so long and making people so much money shouldn't you be able to do what you want?

I know he got to do whatever on Encore, cause there is no way they heard that and thought "classic" but I just think for the most part, Em doesn't have 100 control

"Sometimes I forget what other people just may think
A lot of rappers probably wouldn't know how to take me
If they heard some shit, I'd lay the tape 'fore they erase me"

Why erase him, why censor him or regulate him ever? Isn't that what he was supposed to represent in the first place? This I don't give a fuck guy that would say and do anything?

[Elision]

Has any artist on a label ever had 100% creative freedom on an album?

I can confirm every artist on Strange has complete control. However they're pressured to constantly keep producing material.

I'm sure there's plenty of other independent labels with the same setup. It's just mainstream labels with hundreds upon hundreds of artists that don't give that much of a fuck. And frankly they don't have to. Interscope would be fine with or without Em.

[EminemBase]

Has any artist on a label ever had 100% creative freedom on an album? Nirvana was pressured to have cleaner sound on Nevermind, then on In Utero they had songs remixed and there was rumors that Geffen threatened to not release the album because of the sound. They were the biggest group in the U.S at the time. At what point do you get control?

Eminem has always had people putting pressure on him in one way or another. The MTV friendly radio singles. The fact that Relapse 2 was scrapped and this mainstream friendly Recovery was made. I'm sure you can argue he just changed his mind, but I in no way believe that. It was pressure from a company seeing that the public wasn't knocking doors down to hear about serial killers. The public wants songs with Rihanna about break ups so they can listen to it and think of that one that they love even though it's bad for them.

It confuses me, because once you get to a certain point, you are going to make money, no matter what. Eminem could make Encore 2 and it would sell. Just because it's Eminem and people are going to give it a chance. After being in the business so long and making people so much money shouldn't you be able to do what you want?

I know he got to do whatever on Encore, cause there is no way they heard that and thought "classic" but I just think for the most part, Em doesn't have 100 control

"Sometimes I forget what other people just may think
A lot of rappers probably wouldn't know how to take me
If they heard some shit, I'd lay the tape 'fore they erase me"

Why erase him, why censor him or regulate him ever? Isn't that what he was supposed to represent in the first place? This I don't give a fuck guy that would say and do anything?

Exactly @ Encore 2.

And, I think the fact his BIGGEST selling album is also his MOST ruthless and least compromised... and maybe one of the least I've ever heard. In fact, definitely the least compromised album I have ever heard: The Marshall Mathers LP - I think the fact anybody would fuck with that formula or try have him conform when it's clear he sells the most when he doesn't... that's just retarded.

If an artist is doing their own thing and it's not connecting, fair enough, I can see that from a business perspective like "well, your thing isn't working, maybe try this"... but Eminem's first three are gigantic commercial and critical masterworks, there's no need to try and make him do this or that. I mean, admittedly they haven't really, as even his 'goofy lead singles', they are still him, and were originated from his style, they only conform to HIS standards. And from the way he's talked about them, I do think that's just Em finding a formula and sticking with it cause it works.

I kind of agree with you about the label or people around Em reacting badly to Relapse and him having pressure in that arena, and I don't believe he scrapped it because he suddenly saw the content in a different light; but I also think Eminem cares about public reaction and the scope of his success. As much as he says he doesn't care - he's very conscious of legacy, which is why he's precious about his next moves all the time... and I think once he saw Relapse was such a mixed-bag reaction, especially following Encore, he probably figured Relapse 2 could only get a worse reaction since it was more of the same style. SO I then think he assessed what was going on in rap and big in rap right now and adapted his style to it (Wayne, Jay-Z).

Recovery is very obviously BP3 influenced for example. So, whilst I do think the label or Jimmy can and do have a negative influence on his direction, I do think it's just 'an' influence and if he didn't agree, he wouldn't comply. I think he just thought Relapse 2 could mean him being a has-been. As we all forget that, whilst he never loses his stature in OUR minds and even during his break - he was still a legend and, it seems crazy to us he'd think he could not win... he's still just a human being, and has doubts about himself and his moves, and it's impossible for him to see and feel about himself as his fans do, so he no doubt very much believes he can fail and lose that specialness... as he even said things like, well; it was like he was surprised and happy he was missed. Which, to us seems obvious he would be, we've all been waiting. But he doesn't see that, he only sees himself.

So it makes sense he could have thought he was becoming too obscure with the direction of Relapse and wanted to prove he could still impact widely.

[King Lance]

I think that Strange Music artists aren't influenced by the label...

Interscope & Aftermath/TDE gave complete control to Kendrick for GKMC so Jimmy is not always a bitch

[Jimmy Conway]

Yeah I just don't get it. Em is very aware......of everything, especially in music. He's obviously a very intelligent and letting any type of pressure change anything just doesn't make sense. He does care about his legacy. And what hurts an artist legacy more than conforming to others opinions? How many times have you been talking to someone and they said, "Yeah I loved ____ first couple albums, but then they changed so much they suck" They sound so commercial and polished it sucks, I miss the old stuff". Everyone loved Eminem because of him doing his own thing. Recovery sounded so much like him trying to do what everyone else wanted. Forced lil wayne esq punch lines. Mainstream beats that don't have that unique signature Em feel. At least on Encore it was Em, it was shitty, but it was still being him. Post Relapse have sounded like he was like, OK, how can I sound like everyone else.

[Elision]

I think that Strange Music artists aren't influenced by the label...

They go into detail about it on the sickology tour DVD

[UofLCard]

He has most control imo, but the label definitely gives "suggestions" that they probably make him implement in some way.

A la The Real Slim Shady.

[CanadaPure]

He has most control imo, but the label definitely gives "suggestions" that they probably make him implement in some way.

A la The Real Slim Shady.

Not so sure about that..I think he likes that song.

Em, I remember seeing somewhere....maybe in the book The Way I Am, said that he hates the song My Name Is and the label told him to make something for radio.

That's a bit different though, considering he wasn't huge yet and it was his first LP on a major label.

[LEVITIKUZ]

I heard that the whole reason Em made Real Slim Shady is because Jimmy wanted another jokey first single from him. To be honest, out of My Name Is, Real Slim Shady, and Without Me; Real Slim Shady is the worse. All he does is bash artists (dissing Will Smith? Really?). In the other 2 he does but he doesn't make the entire song about bashing.

[PAINKILLƎR]

That will smith line is dope, whatchu talkin bout?

[EminemBase]

I heard that the whole reason Em made Real Slim Shady is because Jimmy wanted another jokey first single from him. To be honest, out of My Name Is, Real Slim Shady, and Without Me; Real Slim Shady is the worse. All he does is bash artists (dissing Will Smith? Really?). In the other 2 he does but he doesn't make the entire song about bashing.

Yeah but that wasn't really a random diss of Will Smith, or even Will Smith as an individual OR artist - it was because Will Smith accepted an award for something around that time and said something like 'I ain't cus in my records, I ain't kill nobody and I'm still up here', so Em took that as a dig not only at his style of rap but rap as a whole, as rap has always been about breaking barriers. So it was an ironic jibe on the idea of censoring rap; totally consistent with the concept of MMLP.

As for the bashing of the others... some were personal, some weren't, but it was all more valid there as it was him genuinely trying to separate himself from being lumped in with pop-stars, and the entire album established his ethos, it determined him as an artist... so it all made sense there. After that it became more of an expectation and a parody, he should have stopped at "Without Me".

[PAINKILLƎR]

Wow Embase made me appreciate the Will Smith line even more. Good fucking show.

[shadymathers313]

Will Smith's Big Willie Style is fantastic

[sbolli1]

Without Me is such a good "jokey" first single though

[Emadyville]

saying encore 2 would sell made the OP sound stupid, no offense. I completely agree, but I can't get past it, encore 2, really? Yeah I'd buy it but the 5 mill who bought the first encore, maybe it'd go plat, maybe.