Who else feels like Em's "fame" changed him?

[Guess_Who]

obviously he changed, everybody changes. All the experience makes you change, and be famous. He can't have the same life that he had before the fame, and he can't dress the same way. Not only because he has more money, nobody dress the same way than 10 years ago.

[Fleka]

So, Em should pretend he`s poor? And, what she said^^.

[Blu]

And EmBase hits home!

Maybe it's just me, but I feel like, he shouldn't have made an album where he's killing his ex-wife and then have the next album be out how music affects people.

Like I said, the transition from the albums was just.. awkward.

Listen to songs like Bitch Please II, Kim, The Way I Am, then go listen to TES.

You'll find a jagged flow.

Then go listen to the Slim Shady LP, then the Marshall Mathers LP, and you'll see that the albums flow smoothly. There are similar topics from SSLP on the MMLP, but yet he still brought new ones on board.

There are rarely similar topics on TES & MMLP.

I don't know if you guys are getting what I'm saying but.. hopefully someone understands.

[Blu]

And for all you fuckers who are saying this is a retarded topic, this is what I mean:

SSEP - he was a weird asshole
SSLP - he was an asshole
MMLP - he was a big asshole
TES - LOVING FATHER!?!? WTFF!!!
Encore - WEIRD.. freak?
Relapse - Rapist!!!
Recovery - HAS THE LOVING FATHER RETURNED?!

Hopefully that will help.
His albums don't flow too well.

[TorieCheng72]

Seriously.....do you actually live in his head, Mr. Mather's, that is.....if not, then I'd really stay quiet as a mouse. Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Word

[Blu]

And for all you fuckers who are saying this is a retarded topic, this is what I mean:

SSEP - he was a weird asshole
SSLP - he was an asshole
MMLP - he was a big asshole
TES - LOVING FATHER!?!? WTFF!!!
Encore - WEIRD.. freak?
Relapse - Rapist!!!
Recovery - HAS THE LOVING FATHER RETURNED?!

Hopefully that will help.
His albums don't flow too well.

Yeah, him being a loving father is so surprising. Especially after he tells Hailie "I love you baby" about 20 times on '97 Bonnie & Clyde. Especially after he talks about feeding his daughter on The Way I Am and after he tells Hailie "Baby you're so precious, Daddy's so proud of you" on Kim.

Then, suddenly, he starts being a loving father? WTF, DOOD???

And MMLP being an act and it turns out Eminem is actually normal person? WTF????????????????? Yeah, it's not like he told you that in the chorus of "Marshall Mathers" or anything.

Fans like you can't even see subtext.

You're not grasping what I'm trying to say.

His subject matter changed too quickly. And on MMLP, there were no fucking songs dedicated to Hailie, on SSLP yeah there was Bonnie & Clyde, but at the same time the guy was dumping his dead wife's body.

[Mr.DGAF]

And for all you fuckers who are saying this is a retarded topic, this is what I mean:

SSEP - he was a weird asshole
SSLP - he was an asshole
MMLP - he was a big asshole
TES - LOVING FATHER!?!? WTFF!!!
Encore - WEIRD.. freak?
Relapse - Rapist!!!
Recovery - HAS THE LOVING FATHER RETURNED?!

Hopefully that will help.
His albums don't flow too well.

First, I would essentially remove Relapse from this list, for the sole purpose of THIS conversation only. It was essentially a creative, story type album not meant to flow with anything else he had done. And, in my opinion, they all flow together really well. The subject matter changes because of how he is being percieved. The greatest aspect of Em's writing was how he was able to look at society objectively and comment on it. So he introduces himself in the SSLP, then basically all of the MMLP is his reaction to the new-found fame. TES is him dealing with the fame still, while Encore is Em almost trying to get away from the fame. Recovery is what the title would indicate, he gets right back to being famous while taking shots at people, even though he is trying to reach out to listeners.

[TorieCheng72]

Mr.DGaf I like your train of thought, that's a compliment by the way. Mr. Mathers does comment on a generation. Just sayin EM, ya flow.

[Blu]

And for all you fuckers who are saying this is a retarded topic, this is what I mean:

SSEP - he was a weird asshole
SSLP - he was an asshole
MMLP - he was a big asshole
TES - LOVING FATHER!?!? WTFF!!!
Encore - WEIRD.. freak?
Relapse - Rapist!!!
Recovery - HAS THE LOVING FATHER RETURNED?!

Hopefully that will help.
His albums don't flow too well.

First, I would essentially remove Relapse from this list, for the sole purpose of THIS conversation only. It was essentially a creative, story type album not meant to flow with anything else he had done. And, in my opinion, they all flow together really well. The subject matter changes because of how he is being percieved. The greatest aspect of Em's writing was how he was able to look at society objectively and comment on it. So he introduces himself in the SSLP, then basically all of the MMLP is his reaction to the new-found fame. TES is him dealing with the fame still, while Encore is Em almost trying to get away from the fame. Recovery is what the title would indicate, he gets right back to being famous while taking shots at people, even though he is trying to reach out to listeners.

Hmm.. indeed. I'd have to agree.

Idk, I guess to me his albums just didn't transition well. Oh well.

Torie I don't care about your opinion.

[TorieCheng72]

Good. I don't care about yours either. St8. Ha! My opinion's my own & that's all that matters 2 me.

[EminemBase]

And for all you fuckers who are saying this is a retarded topic, this is what I mean:

SSEP - he was a weird asshole
SSLP - he was an asshole
MMLP - he was a big asshole
TES - LOVING FATHER!?!? WTFF!!!
Encore - WEIRD.. freak?
Relapse - Rapist!!!
Recovery - HAS THE LOVING FATHER RETURNED?!

Hopefully that will help.
His albums don't flow too well.

On The Slim Shady LP, he was indulging in character and attitude. He does this on all his albums but he was specifically indulging in Shady - a metaphor for evil, with twisted humour. Again, he always has twisted humour, he just has everything in different dosages each time round.

The Marshall Mathers LP is unique from any of his albums as it was made as a reaction to misunderstanding and designed to provoke and push free-speech to its absolute limit. He tries to provoke people, and make people laugh and think and be emotionally affecting always, but this album was on steroids as he was reacting to a major-scale misrepresentation.

The Eminem Show is him acknowledging his new found position as a global icon, his worldwide fame and status, the hypocrisy of the politics that affect him or inspire backlash and trying to be taken more seriously as an actual musician (hence producing it).

Encore was a tired, bored Eminem lacking in creativity and direction and trying to tie up the loose ends of The Eminem Show and the last two years in-between these albums, covering anything he didn't talk about and make it presumably all a little more laid back (hence the flows of such songs like "Yellow Brick Road" - I don't believe this is just from drugs) to make it sound different to The Eminem Show (shouting, rock inspired). Which is probably also why he felt the need to be a little more sporadic and silly again as he was so serious on The Eminem Show.

Relapse is comparable to The Slim Shady LP in the sense that he's losing himself in character. I never say 'a' character as it's more of a mindset, there's no absolutely definable traits, or not enough that are consistent to call it 'a' character. As he's constantly morphing his mind around wherever the pen takes him. This album is basically just him trying to revert to shocking and provoking people, whilst totally losing himself in technique and avoiding making his personal issues the absolute driving factor to his music. But people didn't like this, so he reverted back.

Recovery is him acknowledging his perceived failures, admitting his weaknesses and downfalls, announcing his success in overcoming them (hence, recovery) and declaring his new found passion and focus. As well as re-asserting his dominance. Which is why the title is fairly genius, given the fact it totally encapsulates his mainstream dominance of 2010 in that he recovered in a personal sense, in the public eye and it also nods to the recovery of Detroit and the economy as a whole (thanks to the General Motors metaphor). That title and some of the concepts on Recovery is the only real hope for me that he is progressing. The relevance of that word to his life, the tone of the album and the timing of it is pretty brilliant.

As HE changes, his MUSIC changes. If his life is changing, then of course his work will too, as he is a true artist who puts his life into his work. His work is his life. If he is depressed and angry, his music and content is likely to be that too. Not to mention his growth from age and experience.

So you cannot expect him to be the same or even similar in 2002 to how he was in 1999. As I said, the underlying aspects to his personality are all still there, always. He didn't lose any of that on The Eminem Show at all, and the subject-matter is not watered down or mainstream. He just presented it differently and evolved as an artist and a musician. He was still sarcastic, clever, political, provocative, catchy, angry and humorous. As always.

He's not the same on The Slim Shady LP as he is on The Eminem Show because it's a different album, a different chapter of his life and he had different artistic intentions. The Slim Shady LP was an exhibition of skill, a testament to his writing ability and storytelling (hence the concepts) and creativity. This is because it was his introduction to the world. And he had been broke and failing most of his life, so of course this album is going to be as creative and driven as he can possibly make it. He was trying to show people how original he could be.

The Marshall Mathers LP is more similar to The Slim Shady LP than The Eminem Show is not only because only one year had passed between the first two, and FOUR had passed between SSLP and TES but also because he had done an extra album of evolution in-between. He was experimenting with new styles and ideas, as he always does. If he sounded similar to his first album, on his THIRD album - he wouldn't be a very good artist.

A GREAT artist should always want to evolve and get better at what they do, whilst continuously pushing themselves to think outside the box or do something new.

The Marshall Mathers LP was an extension of SSLP in the sense that it was a reaction to it and is therefore inherently a sort of, sister album to it. Hence the reason you have "Kim" - a prequel / sister track to "97 Bonnie and Clyde" on it. This implies the album is a unofficial sequel because the actual killing of Kim is evidently more extreme and vivid than driving her to the lake to dump the body. So it would make sense to save the more extreme scenario for the sequel.

After he had provoked society to the absolute extreme with MMLP, where did he have to go with that concept? the provocation wasn't arbitrary - it was to promote and encapsulate free-speech, push the envelope of the genre and execution and to entertain those of us who get it.

The Eminem Show is Eminem AFTER he's done this. So why would he repeat the same concept for an album? he's mirroring his life through his art, and after the controversy of The Marshall Mathers LP, his life had become like a show, a freak show and a television special. It was a whole other level. So it makes sense that the following album would also be surrounding the after-effects of his prior work, his new found fame, his new issues and his elevated status.

Eminem singing an ode to his daughter on TES shows growth and maturity because where as on SSLP he only felt comfortable expressing his love for his daughter through a twisted storytelling track in which he also expressed his hatred for his wife (overlapping a positive emotion with a negative one to cover the cracks of male insecurity), he now felt mature and adult, and open enough to do it with no pretence, cover or concept.

"97 Bonnie and Clyde" is better art to me, in the sense that its execution and idea is ingenious. And I like a dark edge to concepts, and ideas. And the fact he made it real-time and managed to make it genuinely funny and entertaining is amazing.

But "Hailie's Song" is a genuine display of affection, which shows his self-confidence and comfort with expression had risen. He was older and wiser, and he was showing it. Any attempt to deny his growth as a person, through his art... would be pretentious. He would be a worse artist by doing that as he would be lying to himself for the sake of his fans, or people's perceptions. And an artist shouldn't lie to themselves, they should only ever make art for themselves.

He also makes his albums in pairs (SSLP + MMLP / TES + ENCORE / RELAPSE + RECOVERY) hence the reason they're more closely related in subject-matter and themes, in twos. His first two were dissecting his persona and using character play to elevate humour and creativity. His next two (TES + ENCORE) were discussing his life issues as a result of his new fame and wealth. But you still have elements of SSLP + MMLP in TES + ENCORE and you still have elements of TES + ENCORE in SSLP + MMLP. You have elements of all within all. As it's the same guy making them.

Relapse dealt with the depths of depravity and boredom his mind may have / could sink to whilst totally lost within drugs and despair, due to his personal collapse after Encore and the death of Proof. Recovery dealt with overcoming this addiction and getting back on top personally and professionally. Hence why it comes AFTER the despair and coincides with success.

Regardless of quality, his albums flow absolutely perfectly and even his discography tells a story. As he's always trying to represent his mindset in whatever state he's in. Even on Relapse where you may think it's pointless or aimless shock, he's overly obsessive and detailed which represents where he was at coming out of writer's block, haven 'woken up' so to speak from his addictive state where he was low, depressed and slow. Which is also why he probably sounds so gleeful in the psychopathy, as he was expressing ideas with clarity and felt comfortable to play with darkness in a totally unapologetic way, for the purpose of exercising his talent again.

[TorieCheng72]

Beautiful is a pretty good track, so in essence, I disagree with Mr. DGaf, however, he makes sense, short, concise, & to the point. TRU writting skills without all the blah, blah, blah blu.

[EpicForever]

It really is amazing how his albums are organized by "paired" titles and seems to have happened by accident somewhat. I'm very curious as to the direction he will go towards his next album and the title it will get.

It will probably be like Kanye when Kanye came out with 808s and Heartbreak after having three previous albums that had titles based on "education" and "college".

I really do hope Em thinks outside the box for the title of his next album. I can see him making a "Southpaw" album like Jay did with American Gangster.

Damn......now I'm annoyed that we won't have the title for a long time.

[TorieCheng72]

Bet he's in the lab right now....

[Mr Change]

[quote="TorieCheng72"]Bet he's in the lab right now....[/quote]

Man, he's been busy lately hasn't he?

Working on his next solo album
Working on his verses on the D12 album
Working on his verse from the Yelowolf feature
Working on his verses for those Obie features
The Cypher verse
Ghostwriting Detox

dude is a workaholic