Eminem: Old Vs. New

[Emadyville]

menzo for the win, i dont even have to say anything else

[Kill You]

So you judge Eminem based off of two singles from Recovery?



The whole Recovery album is better than those two songs.

[Fleka]

You are taking this a bit far, don`t you think? Go, listen to Recovery. Go. It`s a good album.

[_Hawk_]

OK, here I go (last time because, in this instance, Menzo has proven his incapacity to read between the lines, and his simultaneous capacity to blow a simple comment way out of proportion).

Really? His entire "infamousness" has been substituted with a few corny puns? Everything he did 12 years prior has been destroyed because of a few lines? Seriously, get real man, every rapper has corny lines and Em's corny ones are only accentuated further by his panty knotted fans.

Erm, no. That's not what I said at all. But congratulations for having the retardedness to assume I did!


What I said was that his current music is not remembered for anything close to (enviable) infamousness. I was NOT suggesting at all that his music prior to this time has been destroyed. Get a grip man! It is not a career destroying move at all. But at the same time I don't see it as a great direction to take. As I said before, you've taken my (rather simple) argument off at a complete tangent. My suggestion was that it was a shame Em was willingly making tracks with a heavy pop emphasis. This is inescapable. It's also inescapable how his fan base is being overtaken by people who think that Space Bound is his best song, and that Royce is an upcoming rapper.
None of the people who post on this forum fall into this category, but I am happy to show my objection to vociferent support for this style. It's not terrible by any means, but it has been flogged to death (in my opinion) and has almost seen the demise of his credibility amongst under-ground MC's. Again, I am happy to accept your opinion. As I said before, tolerance is beneficial.

He did have some gay ones like, "It's a game called circle", I'm not gonna front and say every line is flawless

Agreed 100%

I'm not gonna front and say every line is flawless but I'm also not gonna act like a hard Hip-Hop head and critique every fuckin line like so many of you unproven professionals have done.

Again, that's not what I'm getting at at all. You appear to have missed my earlier paragraph where I said: 'it's not just the lyrics. It's the feel of the track: the beat, the conception, the way the lines come together.' A plethora of cheesy puns in a song can make a well constructed verse seem rather pathetic (for want of a better word). It can also undermine the seriousness of a track. I'm not suggesting at all that a few bad lines ruin a song, but paired with disjointed flows, and shouting (I personally can't stand this but you may disagree. If so, feel free ) it makes the composition worse than if one were to pick it apart and analyse it like 'many of the unproven professionals’ do here. Touché!

It's a crime these days to defend an artist you feel is unfairly criticized by a bunch of retards, eh? "He likes his music, he must bust to his pictures!!" yup, you got me there! Stop being a stereotypical bitch and think of something that slightly tickles creativity's fancy if you're going to toss a sly mockery of an insult.

Wow. A bitch? With my comment about being a stereotypical stan, the hypocrisy of that 'insult' is overwhelming. If you had at least shown the tolerance I have for opinions that aren't my own, maybe I wouldn't have placed you in that category to which you are so readily opposed.

I am struggling to see anyone whose stereotype I emulate too. Half this forum talkz like thiz (not you, thankfully) so I am happy to contend that even if I meet a stereotype, I can battle if out with someone of similar intelligence to myself.

In a quick overview and summation of his post, it's quite obvious that stating that Em has chosen to go a pop route is subsequently agreeing with the vast majority of his post, so yes, you did essentially support it in entirety - whether you intended to or not.

No. The contention was that his most recent music is terrible, based on two songs. His most recent music is NOT terrible based on two songs (nor three or four...) In fact, his most recent music is far from terrible. If anything most of Recovery was a breath of fresh air, largely overwhelmed (IMHO) by the freshness of Relapse. if only the latter was better constructed as an album, it could be considered his greatest achievement (for a rapper coming back after 2 awesome albums and one which still sold fairly well, an album as different as Relapse is hard to pull off)

What I did agree with (to a limited extent) and then manipulate into my own suggestion was the idea that Em is now willingly going down a pop-route (remember that for his first two albums, he was reluctant to do a pop track and then by his next few he realised it was unavoidable). I was merely pointing out that I prefer an album with a more underground feel (Relapse satisfies this). Can we expect this? No, not really. But nothing is impossible and if Em wishes to break from the Recovery mould which could so easily set, he may want to take his music down another avenue. Maybe not a direct U-turn, but definitely not a one way street. But that's another discussion altogether.

What's wrong with you "old Eminem fans"? It's been 12 years since MMLP and MMLP-based street singles yet you clowns still are incapable of comprehending he made tracks like "Bad Influence" for a fuckin reason.

Again, this all related back to my suggestion about the FEEL of a song. I'm not overly interested in content (even if the recent Cyper showed old-school Slim Shady flair for contemporary issues).

Em would look like a fool if he continued to make songs like that...

Agreed. But a song reassessing his ironic position in rap at the moment? hmmmm....

That era was obviously intended for temporariness and his intentions were never to stay that angry at everyone, because if he did, he would've stayed that way on The Eminem Show.

I love how you say "take out the viciousness", lol. Well by that logic, take out the viciousness and yelling from "Kim" and substitute it with a more quirky, Slim Shady delivery and suddenly...it isn't such an impacting song.

100% agreed again, but the last point about viciousness doesn't work in the way I suggested. Kim only works in one way. Pure anger. But a concept about the failing relationship from a first person perspective (not directly aimed at anyone other than the author) has a plethora of angles for execution (no pun intended). And this goes back to my comparison with Stan where Love the Way You Lie COULD have been composed in a more conceptual way. Granted it wasn't and, if it wasn't so vicious, would not have the same feel. I agree with you there. It definitely wouldn't work in a Slim Shady way (it would just seem an overly wasteful way of diminishing the Slim Shady character to a 'slut-hater' and thus ruining the tracks credibility) so thanks for pointing that out. It is a good point (but as I said not relevant to the unique example of Kim).
In short: some tracks have various ways they can be composed (some better than others) whereas some only really work in one way.

LTWYL is far from lazy, if you've taken the time to even read what people have said here, it's a fantastically written song and great story telling and it would STILL be that good of a song had Skylar Grey sang the hook. Rihanna's integration was Em's idea because it only made fuckin sense to have her on the hook!

It's not badly written at all. Menzo, wake up! I am talking purely about the overall composition. I have not mentioned the lyricism or anything similar because ultimately you can unpick everything to show how it is good. But this goes back to this comment you made: 'I'm not gunna...critique every fuckin line like so many of you unproven professionals have done.' No, you aren't. But you will happily proceed in the disambiguation of a song to show where it does have potential. A positive critique you have made no doubt.

I stand by my belief that LTWYL is lazy in execution compared to a track like Stan.

You don't think Em's double time flow on that second verse of "All She Wrote" is anything less then impressive?

It doesn't really appeal to me at all. I find the disjointed flows really awkward. The transitioning just seems arrogant, rather than meaningful.
To me, the track itself isn't conceptual, and nor is it really funny or entertainingly witty. But that's just my opinion.

Well whatever you think, your opinion means fuck all to anyone who enjoys the song.

I know! I can't front that at all. Enjoy whatever you want. I'd hate a society where everyone liked the same things. Diversity is brilliant. Oppose me. Hate me. Think differently to me in everyway possible. I won't care, but I'd prefer it to someone on this forum trying to dickride me (unless they were an attractive stannette...)

his first post would've been fine albeit littered with familiar idiocy, but by going on to announce he hasn't heard that album just basically put a nail in his own coffin.

I completely agree. But I stand by my belief that there could have been a meaningful conversation stemming from one or two of his points. This guy is basing Recovery on two songs. He's missing out big time. But hold on a second, should we slate him? Or educate him? Or just think fuck him. I already made it pretty clear what I think, but that's just me. But damn, I may have just proven than I don't live up to a stereotype around here, so if you have genuinely read my argument this far, Menzo: I apologise son for ruining that argument of yours (insert British humour, which most won't understand, here)

Aw shit, now I busted a nut.

Your anger genuinely began to diminish. Such a shame: I was expecting a full out onslaught at the end.

This may probably be a very weird thing to say, but thank you, Menzo, for actually giving me a thought-provoking discussion on this forum.

[_Hawk_]

Well said mate!

And definitely agreed on the names aside part. I usually find myself agreeing with most of your posts and I definitely won't hold a grudge against a member for a petty internet discussion. (no homo)

[Devil'sAdvocate]

This is inception.

[Lawliet94]

HAHAHAHA OMG

You guys are HILARIOUS!

Eminem is mainstream, he's always been mainstream, ever since he came out with The Slim Shady LP.

Don't dismiss an album just because it has Rihanna, who is in fact a nice singer.

In fact, "Love the Way You Lie" is one of my favorite Eminem songs. I mean, have you listened to the lyrics? It's about abusive relationships. Not some lovey-dovey Taylor Swift shit.

Oh, welcome to the forum btw.