"Cinderella Man" is Godly

[OMEGA]

Yeah, as if I needed anyone to back me up and/or validate my opinions.

[Willy]

"Shit my, potatoes baked,
Homie the veggies on my plate can fly,
My filet is smoking weed,
Yeah faggot the steaks are high!"

How is this good? lol. There are a lot of problems with this actually. Why is Em's dinner enchanted? Why is his food smoking pot? Like, even if all this was true, it doesn't logically follow that the "stakes are high". He even says "filet", so "steaks" doesn't really make sense either...the plurality and all... Aside from these minor annoyances he went pretty far out of his way to make an unimpressive pun. Granted, it did fit conceptually... just don't see anything to brag about.

Till I Collapse is way better. And I do like Cinderella Man.

[CrashBand]

*Omega waits patiently for EmBase's views on those four lines*

[Willy]

^ Word, I mean, let's look at the third line and focus on "is". What the fuck is "is"? Is what? Is who? Is where? Why is? How is? It's just so...suggestive, who knows what the fuck the point was...is?

lol fuck you

[OMEGA]

*Omega waits patiently for EmBase's views on those four lines*

I'm actually waiting for the next dumb post coming from you.

[Willy]

I realize it's kind of douchey to pick apart four lines, but someone really needs to speak on puns. Those just stuck out to me as particularly bad...and represent bad puns in em's music perfectly. Yaknowhaimsayin?

[CrashBand]

It's not really that douchey. The same way we pick out specific lines and praise them like
"I said shut up when I'm talking to you, you hear me? Answer me!

We can pick out terrible lines and justify why they are bad.

It's a problem when it starts to get pedantic but that is a horrible punchline.

[EminemBase]

I realize it's kind of douchey to pick apart four lines, but someone really needs to speak on puns. Those just stuck out to me as particularly bad...and represent bad puns in em's music perfectly. Yaknowhaimsayin?

I don't really think that pun is that bad. It's not the best writing BUT - with that particular one... the lead-up to the pun was, descriptive and made no sense until the pun; it doesn't need to be totally viable logically, obviously food can't smoke, but that's kind of the point of the pun, to justify the otherwise nonsensical descriptive lead-up. So it's like, you're listening to the description like "what?" and then comes the pun to justify it, and you're supposed to be confused until the pun; Eminem has always had a sense of 'keeping the listener listening' from one line to the next; in his prime he'd often end on a half-thought so that you automatically felt engaged to hear the next.

And he's a little long-winded with it on occasion, but I really don't find that pun bad enough to ruin the whole segment for me, it's fine.

The good lyricism far outweighs the bad for me, just the style of phrasing is what I like, it's very direct and has a little flair to it, like...

Que Sera
Consider it (beginning a line with these words for example; speaking outside of his direct personal POV, almost like referring to a fable. It just sounds better.) his (speaking 'outside of' himself) last hurrah
Coup de grace
Raise 'em high in the sky,
Keep 'em up
Time to bring the place alive

His perspective is more open-ended and mature, he still has a fuckload of attitude and menace in his delivery and style but it's less purely "I'm Eminem, this is about me me me", it's broader but I think better, it's just... I dunno, the writing of that song, the good writing of it, just feels richer to me. Like with "Space Bound"; that's what I definitely notice in Recovery; with all its faults, the good and the bad, the one majorly noticeable aspect for me is his development as a writer. He definitely evolved in being able to write 'on a theme' more and not having to have the song be completely about his specific situation, and his phrasing is becoming more poetic in spots.

[Willy]

It's not really that douchey. The same way we pick out specific lines and praise them like
"I said shut up when I'm talking to you, you hear me? Answer me!

We can pick out terrible lines and justify why they are bad.

It's a problem when it starts to get pedantic but that is a horrible punchline.

I agree, I meant I wasnt trying to discredit the entire verse with just a few lines. Overall i still enjoy it, but it's not fucking wit TIC. I'll add my thoughts to the whole verse in a bit, stuck in class on my phone atm. Shits annoying to type.

[CrashBand]

I don't really think that pun is that bad. It's not the best writing BUT - with that particular one... the lead-up to the pun was, descriptive and made no sense until the pun; it doesn't need to be totally viable logically, obviously food can't smoke, but that's kind of the point of the pun, to justify the otherwise nonsensical descriptive lead-up. So it's like, you're listening to the description like "what?" and then comes the pun to justify it, and you're supposed to be confused until the pun; Eminem has always had a sense of 'keeping the listener listening' from one line to the next

I know what you mean. I love the sort of writing that's nonsensical and then you can make a pun out of it. I'm no good in The Chamber of Secrets. Too early on, to be perfectly honest. I love this style of writing. I am trying to incorporate it more and more myself. I am Harry Potter's Godfather about the whole situation, though.





Dead serious.

[Emadyville]

I loved that line tbh, and a lot of it was his delivery and overall emotion in the track that made everything he said pretty dope

[EminemBase]

Tommy Cooper said the same kind of awful joke in the 1970s.

Tim Vine said the same joke in the 2000s.

I'm sure thousands of other hacky, shit, one-liner comedians have also thought of taking the phrase "stakes are too high" literally in the same obvious, contrived way Eminem did. The line sucks. Especially since the set-up is so long and nonsensical: "the veggies on my plate can fly/my filet is smoking weed."

Neither Tommy Cooper or Tim Vine are hacks though; they're being completely ironic and are fully aware of the corniness, it's part of their persona's.

[EminemBase]

Being unfunny ironically is only justifiable/interesting if you've proven yourself to be funny in the first place.

Neither Tommy Cooper or Tim Vine have ever been genuinely funny. They both built a career out of thinking of idioms and taking them literally...the easiest thing to do in the world.

An amputee wanted to go partying...I told him to go out on a limb. Great, 100 more of these and I have a Tim Vine act written.

Yeah but with Tommy Cooper; he was firstly a magician and the intentionally lame humour was an inside joke to imply a constant stream of silly misdirection. And then he'd surprise the audience with a genuinely great trick, it was all part of it.

With Tim Vine, I think he's an exception because he's so prolific with the one liners, he would come on and just do a rush of them one after the next, always acknowledging they're corny, but there was so many of them and delivered in such a quick, successive way... he has something. And I find his one liners funny, they wouldn't be if he honestly thought they were genius, but it's more about the style and delivery with him, it's a constant stream of spitfire ideas.

I don't agree either of them are hacks at all.

I think a genuine hack of a comedian is... Peter Kay. Obvious observations about biscuits dropping off in tea, but he'd genuinely talk about this stuff as if he thought it was brilliant observational comedy; he's the definition of generic.

But I think intent can mean so much with comedy, and when you know the comedian is of a certain intelligence, and is doing something intentionally... that's everything to me, the content can then become trivial as it's the meaning behind the eyes, and how it's delivered.

[EminemBase]

I see your point.

I've seen Tim Vine say stuff like "you think that's bad, there's a whole hour of this" (paraphrasing), so I get that he knows his jokes are dumb. But what kind of dick charges people money to come see him perform jokes that he thinks are dumb?

Why doesn't he just write good material? He probably can't.

Lmao... um, well I dunno why it works for me, but I can just see that he's intelligent and a genuine comedian, because I know he knows, and it's part of it, I just find it good.

It's almost like... Gervais making intentionally racist or retarded jokes to make a point (although he bangs that drum as an excuse to say anything tbh lmao), but you know Gervais is an intelligent guy who gets what he's doing, it's because he knows that it's 'wrong'... otherwise it would just be genuinely bad, or racist or stupid. So I think intent / the comedian saying it means so much...

But then beyond that there's also timing and delivery of course. I think a good comedian can make almost anything funny; and it's Tim Vine's timing and delivery that signals to me he's a real comedian, just like... if a hack took some of Gervais' older material and tried presenting it, it'd just seem shit. But when he does it, there's, layers and timing to it, it means something.

It's not always easy to explain and I know what you're saying, I just feel Vine is authentic to me.

Not that I'm his biggest fan either btw, it's not like I follow him or am his biggest champion lmao, i just know of him and have seen him and just feel that way.

[Coast2Coast]

I never really found Eminem's persona funny i will never take away from the fact he is very charismatic but i just never found it funny it came across like he was trying way too hard to be funny and it seemed akward more than genuinley funny when he used his persona it didn't seem natural humor.