Rolling Stone Names Its 20 Best Hip Hop Albums Of 2013

[kkaniff]

"The non-Em
sectioners and important posters tend
to be much more fair and open-
minded than the average Em section
stan who listens to nothing but
Eminem"
And you know they only listen to Eminem how?
And "more important posters"? Do you realize how idiotic you sound right now?

[Troll]

@Troll
Nope, sales mean your music appeals to people, which is the point of making music in the first place.
Also, it was in response to his statement that more people prefer Yeezus to MMLP2.
You don't know how much I'm holding myself back @Horseybot, I want to insult you and all other 'Ye Stans sooo bad.

I am no Kanye staN. Tbh i hate him and his character.

[Solace]

oooh kill em

[VINTAGƎ]

You feel that other forums underrated or outright trashed Eminem to a biased degree. That's how I see TR's general view of Kanye. The non-Em sectioners and important posters tend to be much more fair and open-minded than the average Em section stan who listens to nothing but Eminem, but for the most part, this site shits on the guy like a German schiesse video.

The fact that this is an Eminem fan forum should have no bearing on the way other artists are perceived. Just because people on another site said some things you don't like about Eminem does not make it acceptable for you (not you, Vintage, but TRShady at large) to blindly trash another artist because critics like that artist more or because his name shows up on more arbitrary, meaningless year-end lists.

Kanye does have albums that are masterpieces and/or game changers. My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy, 808s and Heartbreak, and Late Registration are remarkable pieces of work that majorly influenced hip-hop. Very, very few people would tell you those albums aren't great, especially MBDTF and Late Registration. And yet there are whiny stans here who act like Kanye personally raped their grandmothers because he's not chummy enough with their golden god, Marshall Bruce Mathers III. If Kanye and Eminem were big pals, most of this forum would lick his asshole and call it chocolate pudding.

To reiterate my earlier point, trying to "outweigh" the more aggressive faction of Kanye's fanbase by blindly championing Eminem and constantly insulting Kanye and his fans is not justifiable. I don't care which artist a forum is devoted to, everyone should always try to be fair and reasonable.

Well, the whole thing is kind of cyclical don't you think? It's hyperbole from both sides. I react when I see people classify something I think is mediocre or sub par as some sort of movement in the genre. Not just with Kanye, with anything/anyone.

You notice you never really see this kind of backlash against Nas, or a few other rappers considered greats. It's mainly Jay and Kanye. And their fans. It goes back to one of my earlier posts -- these two artists specifically -- feel the need to big up their own projects. Jay had the "new rules" bullshit during the MCHG album cycle. They had the whole watch the throne thing where they believe that there's a hip hop throne, and they share it. They both routinely refer to themselves as royalty or deities, and their fans eat it up. So, come album time -- as opposed to people saying "man that shit is dope" -- like a Nas fan would. You get "wow, they killed it. Is this the most perfect rap record ever? Is this Kanye's 5th straight classic? Does he have the best discography of all time?"

And it just continues going and going when in reality -- it's an album. Nothing more, nothing less.

Add in the fact that most of us were around and followed Em when he was breaking every musical record out there. When he had actual organizatons boycotting his records and concerts. When the dude would make news for saying faggot. That was an event. That was shit that people got wind of regardless of what genre they followed. You knew Em, you knew his music.

And Eminem never had to go around proclaiming how glorious his music was or what a royal masterpiece it was. He just rapped. So for these guys to come out and feel they need to shove their pretentious thoughts about their own records down my throat in every song and every interview - when reactions to their albums pale in comparison to what Eminem was doing, I find it annoying.

Not that it's a competition that I feel Eminem has to win. I just don't like critics or fans force feeding me their opinion as fact, let alone the actual fucking artists doing it.

So, yes, when I see outlandish claims made about an album that I thought frankly was below satisfactory, be heralded as a modern day picasso, I'm gonna say some shit about it.

It's from both sides. It's Jay/Kanye acting like they're bigger/more important than they are, and their fans actually believing it and making wild statements. Then it's guys like me going the other way with it.

[kkaniff]

Just to be clear, what about Yeezus do you consider radically anti-commercial, the lyrics which are basically the same shit Kanye has been spewing since Kanye lost his mom(and most of his reason), or the non-traditional hip-hop production at a time when EDM is at its most popular?
...
I can name 5 Eminem section regulars apparently more intelligent than you off the top of my head.

[kkaniff]

Ooh he posted a laughing smiley, buurn.

[kkaniff]

If you think MBTDF is one of the greatest albums of the Century( which is a 100 years, if you didn't know), then I'm done talking, your imbecility might be contagious.

[VINTAGƎ]

Reactions to Kanye pale in comparison to Eminem? You mean how his albums are consistently rated higher and MBDTF is widely considered one of the greatest albums of the century, if not all time? Yeah, fuck Kanye, he should just give it up. He'll never top Encore.

When I say reactions, I mean public reactions. Breaking sales records. People protesting your album for it's lyrics. Shit that takes it from just an album to opening dialogue about touchy topics like misogony and homophobia. Giving a voice to a whole generation of listeners who would not have gotten into hip hop if it wasn't for a white figurehead who looked like them. That's a movement. Not dropping an album that may or may not be enjoyed 5 years from now. That's not an event. Kanye and Jay will never experience that level of fame and controversy and attention no matter what marketing ploy they try.

You can't possibly dismiss Watch the Throne as arrogant when your favorite rapper just released a song titled "Rap God" about why he is the ... wait for it ... Rap God.

There's a difference between calling yourself a Rap god -- and believing you are an actual god. Or have you not heard Kanye talk in any interview ever? This dude legit believes he's working on a higher plane than the rest of us are. His dick is so far down his own throat it's actually sad. I don't find it entertaining like I once did. Dude legit believes he's on another level.

None of these critics are trying to pass their opinions off as objective fact. What on Earth are you talking about? Who, pray tell, is "force feeding" you this information?

They believe the hype. Instead of saying "it's a quality album" or "solid album" blah blah blah -- it's "Kanye drops a record that turns the industry on its head. Jay-Z gives us hip hop's new rules with MCHG. They can't just rate the album track by track like they do with most artists. They start throwing hyperbole in it. It's classic sheep mentality shit. The artist says they are x, advertise themselves as x, and the fan/critic says, oh shit! This is x! Who would consider MCHG the mark of a new movement in hip hop if Jay didn't advertise it as such? Because he released it through a fucking smart phone app? Those are the new rules? Those rules suck. He should take notes from his wife if he really wants to do some revolutionary shit. Fuck out of here.

[kkaniff]

Don't run Horseybot.
StayWideAwake, EminemBase, Myself(obviously), whoretoachainsaw, Vintage.
I could name more if you want.

[kkaniff]

So, now it's my fault you're incapable of clearing stating your point.
I'm also responsible for your living in the friendzone and having to quote girls online for a little attention, right?
Run Horsey, you don't want me to stop what I'm doing to properly focus on you.

[kkaniff]

With your "high number of female friends" and giddy pleasure at having women talk to you.

[kkaniff]

Ow, hurtful.
Would your gay friends be pleased if they heard you being so intolerant Horsey?
I'm appalled at your behaviour, young man.

[kkaniff]

Faggot?
If I were a less refined and tolerant gentleman, I would state that I get more of your mom's puss than your dad.
But I'm a cultured man.
What straight man says "toodles" btw?

[VINTAGƎ]

Anyway, this is the bottom line. And the reason why when it comes to other artists I'm not feeling, I don't open my mouth, but when it comes to these two guys, I have to drop some shit.

These two guys are extremely pretentious. You hear it in their lyrics, you hear it in their interviews. They routinely refer to themselves as higher powers. Kings and gods. For fuck's sake, Jay's nickname is HOVA.

When it comes time for their album to drop, they attach some gimmick to it. Jay's "last album," "Jay's return album!", Jay's album based on a movie!", "the third installment to one of Jay's most popular albums!," "an album that will mark the start of the new rules!"

He's the one doing all these things. Advertising them as such. Advertising them as movements, not albums. His focus is on the business aspect of music. I can't fault him. It's a money maker. His buddy Kanye has taken to doing the same shit. "Ooh! He released the single on the side of buildings worldwide! Unique and cool! This is next level shit!"

They are actively trying to capture a large audience. Create buzz. Be the talk of the town. Then -- the album drops, it gets its reviews, positive, negative, or otherwise. Goes platinum once or twice, and it's over.

Eminem, never had to come out and say "this new album I got, the follow up to Slim Shady, is the most rawest record of all time. It's gonna get some people angry. I really went all out this time around. I'm changing the game with this."

He just put out the album, and boom. People are protesting, people are boycotting, his lyrics come under heavy scrutiny, his subject matter becomes public dialogue. It sells a comical amount of records. He made it cool for white people to rap again. It was a long time since the Beasties came out -- he has a whole generation of kids who never got into hip hop until he brought them into it.

The album had an actual effect on the culture of hip hop and the media at large.

And it happened without him desperately trying to market it as such.

That was shit Jay and Kanye can only dream of having. They will never reach that kind of level. And I don't want to hear about how it's because of Eminem's skin color. He's not just outselling them by large amounts. He's outselling fellow white artists. POP artists. Artists that are more commercially friendly and have a broader base.

He sets records for shit effortlessly while Jay and Kanye continue to try and market their album as something more than a disc that plays audio files. Aint gonna happen.

[kkaniff]

Eh, it was amusing while it lasted.
@Vintage agree 100%.