Eminem is the best of all-time.

[LLockhart86]

I dont think he is the best rapper, because there is no 'best rapper'. its all based on preference, and what kind of qualities you like in a rapper. personally, eminem is my favorite rapper because I can relate to the shit he raps about much more than any other rapper. so im automatically more interested in what hes saying than most rappers. some ppl hate his subject matter, it just depends on what your preference is. ppl need to stop with this 'best rapper' shit, aint no such thing..

Agreed. Especially with relating, and it's not about greatest in that sense just why he is my favorite to listen to, putting him at the top of my list, and by default making him the greatest in my eyes.

There is no such thing as ''Best Rapper Alive'' or ''Greatest Of All Time''.. There are just opinions.

^ that and this..

There Is no such thing as a G.O.A.T, Its all a matter of opinion and taste

Eminems the best. Wayne a close second Tpain is third. Fuck you, I already know everyone here disagrees.

[SeoNv]

Because he's broken down so many barriers. Nobody else has ever been so graphic and been able to pull it off. Nobody has ever been so personal. Nobody has ever come into the game with 100% intent to say "fuck you" to everybody.

And, let's not forget, he had to be a fucking incredible lyricist in order to blow down the door for white rappers.

He's also the only artist that can single-handedly destroy anybodies career if they decide to diss him.

When you really filter it down, the fact is, he's the best because he's so much different. He's a breath of fresh air. Everything about him is that way, from something as simple as the sound of his voice, to something as complex as the hidden metaphor's in his lyrics. He does it all, and does it relentlessly.

Agree

Eminem is a powerful Rapper said for the world
sales, flow, lyrics, rhytm, rhyme, feeling, multis, metaphor's, historys = cry, laugh, emotion, pain, peace, etc..

[Relapse.LP]

Keep this rolling.

Lol @ GoodGirlsGetGutted's response. It was the most outright, blatant, unrestricted post in a debate, without breaking the rules really, that actually caught my attention.

@ One Mic, I grew tired of his "poppy" singles several years ago.

[LLockhart86]

Yeah, Id say your the best if no one can say shit about you because they are afraid of loosing their career.

Like Eminem

[shadyboymez]

greatest of all time = 2pac, no comparison

I would say Eminem is the next closest to his level and there will never be another like him

[Relapse.LP]

greatest of all time = 2pac, no comparison

I would say Eminem is the next closest to his level and there will never be another like him

Another 2Pac Stan that doesn't really listen to him?

[LLockhart86]

Yeah I hate that crap, Pac wasnt even that good. I mean he was good, but not like, legendary

[Relapse.LP]

Yeah I hate that crap, Pac wasnt even that good. I mean he was good, but not like, legendary

IYO.

[EminemBase]

Well... I partly agree and disagree with your claim that there can't really be a best rapper as it's preference.

This is right, to a degree, in my opinion. Obviously as with any art or anything that can be perceived in multiple ways and that doesn't adhere to any measurable law such as mathematics or physics, it's subjective. So in this sense, technically there cannot be one best, sure.

But I think hip-hop is very much a special exception within music. Whilst we can't absolutely measure things, due to the nature of hip-hop and its competitive nature ie. who can be the biggest smartass... There is a great deal you could measure if you chose to.

I mean you could draw up a list of qualities that made the best rapper ie:
- Number of different flows (Versatility)
- Number of different styles (Content)
- Best actual rhymer

And say for example... Best rhymer, you could technically count how many words they rhymed over an average of each song and yada yada. Haha, not saying we should start doing this or that it would prove anything, but it's possible in theory. To a degree. Like for example, number of different flows; Some people could argue he still had the same flow on X as Y whilst others say it's totally different. So again, not scientifically provable in that sense.

But if we talk about these qualities very broadly, Eminem wins easily. Without actually totting up and counting and so on. Lets just talk on say... Rap styles. Now, aside from Eminem, who else can you say has mastered or even attempted to do all of the following...

- Battle rap
- Acid rap
- Comedy rap
- Emotional rap
- Political rap
- Horrocore rap
- Sing-song rap
- Club rap
- Gangsta rap

I mean, we could stop right there. He's done all those and more. He did all those within the course of three albums. And masterfully. Where as... Lets take other great rappers like Nas or Redman.

Nas - From Illmatic to now (and I love Nas btw) he's kept basically the same flow or handful of flows but definitely the same vocal tones and style. He's also stuck to the same themes apart from maybe branching out a little more into popular culture and the effect of media brainwashing and... A little more about black history and so on.

Where as Eminem jumped from being Norman Bates, to Stan, to singing to Halie to full blown fictional murder-tales. And much more. And not only that but he has totally reinvented his sound and set of flows. Not just FLOW, set of flows - Every single album.

That's just rap styles though.

Redman - Again, consistently fantastic. But, same thing, every album. Non-stop classic rap horrorcore and comedy punchlines in the same style. And that's fine. But it's ucnomparable to Eminem's ambition and scope.

He's also created arguably the most powerful and long-lasting concept songs, sparse as they are from him with... "97 Bonnie and Clyde" - "Stan" - "Kim". Even his handful of concept songs have made a bigger impact on history than the hundreds of others by other supposed top-dogs.

So we know for a fact he's the most versatile. I would argue this is one thing that is not perhaps subjective. We can definitely say what rappers do and do not talk about and in what way, even if not technically measurable. It's observable.

And without a doubt he's tried and completed the most rap styles. He's talked about the most things, he's jumped the most ships and he's changed his style the most times. He sounds totally fresh every album.

This is just a small point though. Eminem could have kept one style and talked about nothing but drugs and still be the best, as any other. It's not just about that. It's much more.

His constant combination and juggling of persona, wit, irony, tongue-in-cheek, anger, emotion... I mean, he's just an absolute master not just of wordplay and rapping but at inhibiting mind-states at a manic rate. He's seemed to of almost by accident mastered a lot of the fundamentals of psychological impersonation by the very nature of his character and the way he goes about his ideas.

I have 100 essays more in my brain as to why he's easily the best rapper in history, in my opinion. But as you say, at the end of it - It's subjective. Because even if it could be proven that he'd done the most styles and this and that... It's still about who sounds the best to you. But no rapper in my mind has even come close to mastering the art in the way he has and none sound anywhere near as good as him. To me, he's a monumental poet of our time where as most other rappers are just entertaining.

There's also no doubt though that he's the most under-appreciated rapper ever. And I'm in no doubt that if he was black, he would be much much more appreciated within hip-hop. To some, even now, they begrudgingly respect him as they know he's too good to disrespect or ignore. But so much of his talent goes un-noted and un-spoken of. So much increeeeedibllle use of the English language, such innovation, such mind-blowing creativity that just gets taken for granted.

I have a sneaking feeling though that this appreciation will improve with history. As time goes on, perhaps when he's dead too, people will start to look much closer at his work, like they did when he first came out but for the wrong reasons (because he was / is white). Only then they will start discovering the true gold of his genius.

And I use that term sparingly believe me. I usually hate it when I hear or see people calling artists geniuses as so few actually are. I wouldn't consider Nas a genius for instance either. But Eminem truly deserves that title. When it comes to the English language at least.

[Daveyboy]

Kudos ^ Very well put, agree 100%

[BILI]

Well... I partly agree and disagree with your claim that there can't really be a best rapper as it's preference.

This is right, to a degree, in my opinion. Obviously as with any art or anything that can be perceived in multiple ways and that doesn't adhere to any measurable law such as mathematics or physics, it's subjective. So in this sense, technically there cannot be one best, sure.

But I think hip-hop is very much a special exception within music. Whilst we can't absolutely measure things, due to the nature of hip-hop and its competitive nature ie. who can be the biggest smartass... There is a great deal you could measure if you chose to.

I mean you could draw up a list of qualities that made the best rapper ie:
- Number of different flows (Versatility)
- Number of different styles (Content)
- Best actual rhymer

And say for example... Best rhymer, you could technically count how many words they rhymed over an average of each song and yada yada. Haha, not saying we should start doing this or that it would prove anything, but it's possible in theory. To a degree. Like for example, number of different flows; Some people could argue he still had the same flow on X as Y whilst others say it's totally different. So again, not scientifically provable in that sense.

But if we talk about these qualities very broadly, Eminem wins easily. Without actually totting up and counting and so on. Lets just talk on say... Rap styles. Now, aside from Eminem, who else can you say has mastered or even attempted to do all of the following...

- Battle rap
- Acid rap
- Comedy rap
- Emotional rap
- Political rap
- Horrocore rap
- Sing-song rap
- Club rap
- Gangsta rap

I mean, we could stop right there. He's done all those and more. He did all those within the course of three albums. And masterfully. Where as... Lets take other great rappers like Nas or Redman.

Nas - From Illmatic to now (and I love Nas btw) he's kept basically the same flow or handful of flows but definitely the same vocal tones and style. He's also stuck to the same themes apart from maybe branching out a little more into popular culture and the effect of media brainwashing and... A little more about black history and so on.

Where as Eminem jumped from being Norman Bates, to Stan, to singing to Halie to full blown fictional murder-tales. And much more. And not only that but he has totally reinvented his sound and set of flows. Not just FLOW, set of flows - Every single album.

That's just rap styles though.

Redman - Again, consistently fantastic. But, same thing, every album. Non-stop classic rap horrorcore and comedy punchlines in the same style. And that's fine. But it's ucnomparable to Eminem's ambition and scope.

He's also created arguably the most powerful and long-lasting concept songs, sparse as they are from him with... "97 Bonnie and Clyde" - "Stan" - "Kim". Even his handful of concept songs have made a bigger impact on history than the hundreds of others by other supposed top-dogs.

So we know for a fact he's the most versatile. I would argue this is one thing that is not perhaps subjective. We can definitely say what rappers do and do not talk about and in what way, even if not technically measurable. It's observable.

And without a doubt he's tried and completed the most rap styles. He's talked about the most things, he's jumped the most ships and he's changed his style the most times. He sounds totally fresh every album.

This is just a small point though. Eminem could have kept one style and talked about nothing but drugs and still be the best, as any other. It's not just about that. It's much more.

His constant combination and juggling of persona, wit, irony, tongue-in-cheek, anger, emotion... I mean, he's just an absolute master not just of wordplay and rapping but at inhibiting mind-states at a manic rate. He's seemed to of almost by accident mastered a lot of the fundamentals of psychological impersonation by the very nature of his character and the way he goes about his ideas.

I have 100 essays more in my brain as to why he's easily the best rapper in history, in my opinion. But as you say, at the end of it - It's subjective. Because even if it could be proven that he'd done the most styles and this and that... It's still about who sounds the best to you. But no rapper in my mind has even come close to mastering the art in the way he has and none sound anywhere near as good as him. To me, he's a monumental poet of our time where as most other rappers are just entertaining.

There's also no doubt though that he's the most under-appreciated rapper ever. And I'm in no doubt that if he was black, he would be much much more appreciated within hip-hop. To some, even now, they begrudgingly respect him as they know he's too good to disrespect or ignore. But so much of his talent goes un-noted and un-spoken of. So much increeeeedibllle use of the English language, such innovation, such mind-blowing creativity that just gets taken for granted.

I have a sneaking feeling though that this appreciation will improve with history. As time goes on, perhaps when he's dead too, people will start to look much closer at his work, like they did when he first came out but for the wrong reasons (because he was / is white). Only then they will start discovering the true gold of his genius.

And I use that term sparingly believe me. I usually hate it when I hear or see people calling artists geniuses as so few actually are. I wouldn't consider Nas a genius for instance either. But Eminem truly deserves that title. When it comes to the English language at least.

you did your homework,my lil homie

[EminemInsider]

1. It is true Eminem has a variety of topics he covers in perhaps his first two albums. Stan is without a doubt a story-telling song, but many other rappers have done that before him. You call Kim cinematic? I suppose it does sound a little "movie-like", but Kim, despite its emotional impact on the listener, has very low-quality lyricism compared to other MMLP songs. Again, maybe this is a difference of analysis, but Just Don't Give a Fuck is a comedy track? I perceive it more of a outlet of built-up anger at his life, in general. Problem with this point is other rappers have done this, some better, so how does this prove Eminem is the best?

Kim "low-quality" lyricism? We must have a different definition of "lyricism," because Kim was absolutely brilliant lyricism.

To me, lyricism is all about word choice and ability to paint a vivid picture. Kim has both of those qualities...and it's the perfect prequel (despite being released second) to 97 Bonnie and Clyde.

Does it have fewer multis than other songs of his? Sure. But that's only one aspect of lyricism. Not to mention, the song has plenty of multis as is...especially considering it's such an outside-the-box track.

Stan, on the other hand, can be argued to have "low-quality lyricism" despite its vivid picture painting because of several blunders (Ex: "I hope you can't sleep and you dream about it/And when you dream, I hope you can't sleep and you scream about it").

2. Although Eminem has perhaps become very well-known, partly due to his color, show me direct impact of his influence? Which MCs have changed their rapping a little after Eminem dropped his albums? What actual influence has he had. Sure, he made people like rap more and get introduced more, but he hasn't helped the game as a whole. He's definitely brought up "rappers", as you will, like "50 Cent" and "D12", but he hasn't really done much as an icon, besides staying secluded from the media for a hiatus of 5 years or so? On the other hand, just look at the late 80's rappers and all they've done for hip hop . Without Kool G Rap, multi-syllabic rhyming wouldn't have been as used as much as it is today. Without Rakim, MC flow would be entirely different. And I don't even need to bring up the greats. Slang was defined by many rappers back in the early 90's and influence is very visible.

First of all, check out Masta Ace. Compare his music in 2001 and beyond to his music from before. He copied Eminem's rhyme style so well people thought he was EMINEM'S influence (because he's been rapping longer). But Masta Ace was the one whose style completely changed after Eminem blew up. On the other hand, Eminem was rhyming like that since his days in Soul Intent.

Additionally, the underground is overwhelmed by Eminem-influenced rappers. That's basically his brainchild. The battle scene...The Saurus, Illmaculate, Marvwon, Kid Twist...those guys blatantly jacked his style and learned how to freestyle with it (by coming up with generic setup lines on the spot to set up a punchline that connects as a multi).

3. True: when Paid in Full dropped, it was considered "ahead of its time", due to its groundbreaking lyricism. Its impact is obvious. Now, when The Slim Shady LP dropped, what was groundbreaking, besides a white MC had broke through the racism with Dr. Dre? Did it have new styles? Is rapping about "killing guys and raping girls" necessarily groundbreaking? To me, some of the content on that album is plainly embarrassing, and his delivery, at times, does not help. Give me legitimate examples of SSLP's "groundbreaking-ness".

The lyricism itself was ground breaking. Nobody was rhyming like that AND actually saying something that was crystal clear to the listener at the same time. The proof is in the fact that everyone does it now when they didn't before him.

And what content on SSLP was embarrassing?

His delivery was awesome, too...but I guess that's just a matter of personal taste.

[M-Pyre]

just give me one song of one rapper that comes close to ... ahh, lets say, till I collaps

[EminemBase]

Now, when The Slim Shady LP dropped, what was groundbreaking, besides a white MC had broke through the racism with Dr. Dre? Did it have new styles? Is rapping about "killing guys and raping girls" necessarily groundbreaking? To me, some of the content on that album is plainly embarrassing, and his delivery, at times, does not help. Give me legitimate examples of SSLP's "groundbreaking-ness".

This is a profoundly stupid attempt to discredit The Slim Shady LP.

That's like saying Pulp Fiction isn't a groundbreaking movie because it's just about "gangsters and violence" but that means nothing. You've given the core premise to the themes but not divulged into how those themes are explored.

I mean first of all, on the most basic level at all. The album was groundbreaking purely for its stark originality in a period of trends and gangsta talk. That album is basically an underground LP. It's a vivid CD of drugs, horrocore violence and battle-rap. And he brought that to the mainstream. On a big scale.

Don't patronize me by trying to 'school' me at this point by the way. I listen to all hip-hop so don't bring up the fact Em wasn't the first to do this as I know that. Point is, he was the first to make these themes successfully transcend. Was that partly due to his skin colour as well as the Dre-backing? Without question. But it's also without question that it would of had a major impact regardless.

This can be observed from the intense buzz within hip-hop in 1998 about Em / Slim Shady even from unapologetic blacktivist rappers like Mos Def who you can bet your bottom dollar would do anything NOT to endorse a white rapper if he could. But even he around that time was shouting "Eminem is dope!".

Em was / is a groundbreaking rapper regardless of his skin colour and to question that is absurd. If it were just because of skin colour then Vanilla Ice would of sold 80 mill. If it were mainly because of skin colour then people would of gotten bored with that novelty and he would be dead or much smaller now too. Talent speaks for itself and his speaks volumes.

Blaming any of his success on colour at this stage is lame and participating in the spreading of malicious falsehood. You're looking at the themes of SSLP and asking what's groundbreaking. Okay lets flip this. What was groundbreaking about Illmatic in terms of themes? Nas was just talking about "gangsta shit" and "street life". Now obviously that's ridiculous. It's the way the album was presented that made it original and groundbreaking.

And it was the way The Slim Shady LP was presented that made it so also. It was totally original in presentation, held a very groundbreaking song with "97 Bonnie and Clyde", he also stepped up the complexity of lyricism. And not just in rhyme schemes, I'm not saying SSLP is the holy grain of rhyming but it's very very good and again, it's the way he rhymes. Lets not forget the impressive storytelling, particularly on "Brain Damage" and "As the World Turns".

He was using very different vocabulary in a very different way. He was also coming out with biting wit and metaphors that hadn't been matched previous and in my opinion not since. Lets not forget the utterly subversive attitude of the presentation which hadn't been seen with such intensity previously at all IMO. Obviously you had Pac yelling fuck the po-lice and Ice Cube and all of that.

But none of them packaged, polished and spew out such intense, formatted rhymes with such absolute bile in such a clever, ironic and anti-establishment way like he did. He stepped the intelligence of rap up mainly. The constant persona juggling, tongue in cheek, button-pushing. Not done previously to the level we saw on that album. He also displayed complete self-awareness.

I can't think of many rappers previous to him that displayed his level of self-awareness. Possibly Nas in terms of... Basic emotional self-awareness but Nas focused all of that to pointing out the flaws in black society where as Eminem chose a much more interesting angle. As apposed to banging on about petty race issues, he played havoc with the grey line.

This album displays such utter self-realization. He's totally aware of the listener's perceptions as he's saying everything and he's constantly toying with those perceptions.

Finally, the album was totally thematic. There had been rap albums previously with themes to them, obviously. But again, this was a very different presentation of a theme. It wasn't just dark and defined it was almost profoundly personal and psychopathic at the same time. A total dichotomy of art. And I mean that as a good thing. This was purposeful. And masterful.

The Slim Shady LP was way ahead of its time. Like all his albums bar Encore. Which is why I can still blast "Just Don't Give a Fuck" and it still sounds fresher than anything out today. In 2009. Not to mention funnier, more clever and more relevant.

So to sum up, the album is groundbreaking for; totally unique storytelling abilities, unparrelelled wit and use of metaphor, unconventional flows, intense subversive attitude, new use of words, total self-awareness, consistent and almost real-time fucking button-pushing and much more.

Oh and just one more thing. You say his delivery didn't help? Are you literally insane. Have you escaped from a movie we all commonly know as One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest or do you just like stiring it up Mr. Ramsey... If nothing else, Em has always been groundbreaking for his delivery.

That's the one thing, whilst every other fucker has been lazy and half-mumbling wasted punchlines, that he has honed and crafted to the point of obsession. I mean these days his delivery is just inhuman but even back then - His flows were much more advanced than his competition.

[LLockhart86]

Kim "low-quality" lyricism? We must have a different definition of "lyricism," because Kim was absolutely brilliant lyricism.

Kim is probably one of the most amazing songs ever. One of his best for sure. People may not like it, but no other rap song has been made this way. And no one else could make a song like this. This is an eminem song and could only be an eminem song.

Eminem Is Genius

EDIT - EminemBase, Your very well spoken