Part II: Eminem vs. All

[classthe_king]

Just watch the Zeitgeist. It will change your life.

[stillmatic]

^^^^They're not going to put all the facts backing up 9/11 in one song. That would require a whole song dedicted to 9/11 and that would be very hard to do imo. They just mention it so that you will look up the facts for yourself.

This.

Immortal Technique gives you small instances and examples to guide you.

I have since done my own readings, my own research for my thesis at University.

Do you really think I'm going to be stupid enough to listen to a rapper and take everything he says to heart and consider it true? No, only an idiot would do that.

And yes, Zeitgiest is probably the best thing you can do. A critically acclaimed movie written by award winning writers. It has no talk about the illuminati, it gives you nothing but cold hard facts.

[dshady89]

Just watch the Zeitgeist. It will change your life.

LMAO, Zeitgeist? Are you serious?
I see now this is just another 17 year old kid raised by the internet, how sad, he is just desperate for attention, no worries little fella, in some years you will see how everything you're saying is not true, you're just in puberty eager to learn from Michael Moore and Alex Jones LOL.

[EminemInsider]

I wonder if Stillmatic realizes that the same media he accuses of being completely untrustworthy is what he's relying on to get all of his "conspiracy theory factz."

[stillmatic]

I wonder if Stillmatic realizes that the same media he accuses of being completely untrustworthy is what he's relying on to get all of his "conspiracy theory factz."

WTF? Where? What?

I wouldn't expect a redneck like you understand it, but no I don't get any of my information from media sources.

I'll let people like you take the word of Fox News' 'fair and balanced' news.

I gotta say though, I do find your wannabe tweenie spelling embarrassing, as if it makes you look so witty, sorry, but the only lovable redneck on the entire planet is the dude from Eastbound & Down.

Look though, we don't agree on anything here, so why bother with each other when clearly there's never going to be any relevant debate. You're going on my ignore list after this post, there's no reason to constantly talk shit and ruin threads.

Just remember though, as much as it hurts you, we made this music and you will forever bow down to us, keep trying to steal our culture, redneck. Black power! Queens represent! And you know this maaaaaaaan!

[EminemInsider]

but no I don't get any of my information from media sources.

Then where do you get it from, genius?

You obviously don't even know what the "media" is.

[stillmatic]

Summary: the US government has lied in the past, therefore the US government did 9/11. Great argument.

Your brilliant way of thinking would make the judicial process so easy:

Judge: The defendant has been accused of theft. He has thieved in the past and has been punished for those crimes, therefore he did it in this instance too. *slams hammer*

Yeah that's exactly what I was trying to say. Thanks for completely failing to comprehend the argument.

The United States government has lied to its people for every major war its entered. There are pieces of proof for all these wars. That's the point.

If you choose to ignore these pieces, fine. But don't try spin my argument, if you don't want to debate it, just say so. I'm giving you the respect of at least trying to explain it, if you're going to try and spin it, there's no point in us debating this. Lets just say we disagree, and be done with it.

I have been told that the United States government has the power to monitor every electronic communication on the planet. I suspect they probably abuse their powers sometimes and break the law. I know they're very powerful. But I won't ever believe they did 9/11 until I see some evidence. Innocent of that atrocity until proven guilty.

Nothing you have posted is even close to proof/evidence. Grainy video stills of the towers isn't evidence. A speech by Kennedy, who was dead over 35 years before 9/11 even happened, isn't evidence. Nothing Immortal Technique has said in his interviews (where he has the opportunity to explain himself and give evidence if Class thinks he can't in a song) is evidence.

First of all, my John F Kennedy speech video had nothing to do with 9/11. It was merely about secret societies in general, and Kennedy's attempt to eliminate it, only for him to be eliminated.

Secondly, in terms of the proof you want, fair enough. But here's the issue, what type of proof do you want? For videos of the people I'm accusing to surface with them sipping champagne and laughing about how they got away with it? Because you're not going to get that. Every other possible proof is out there, because you choose to ignore it and not look it up is not my fault. You're so on right side that you fail to look left, so there's nothing here that can be even considered as evidence for you.

You keep saying you want evidence, we're telling you an easier method.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1166827/

Watch it if you want evidence. Critically acclaimed documentary produced by critically acclaimed personnel. If you don't want to watch it, whatever, there's no reason to debate this whole situation then because you don't want to view evidence, and I don't want to push my beliefs on others.

And forgive me for assuming that you don't work for the government. You are probably far divorced from the United States government and only know how they operate from what you've been told in the media/YouTube. Until you are "on the inside," I won't listen to what you think the government does behind the scenes

Yawn. Again, I don't listen to any pieces of media that you're alluding to. I get my information from books, I get my information from the teachings of scholars, I get my information from the work of the great Martin Luther King, Cesar Chavez, Che Guevera, my brother Malcolm X and many others. Never once have I got my info from any journalist, TV or internet etc.

The only ever youtube videos i watch on this type on politics is about situations that have happened in history, such as speeches or whatever. Never have I watched a movie or anything made on youtube.

Really? Grab certain lyrics out of context? Okay, lets do the same.
What was the context of those lyrics? I've heard "Cause of Death." He was being 100% serious when he said those lines. He believes in the Illuminati.

He believes in the illuminati, that's obvious. But those lyrics there are exaggerated, it's one of those songs where it's trying to caputre your attention. If you think that's what Immortal Technique is about, then you have no idea who Immortal Technique is. Just like Eminem and every other rapper, certain lines are there simply because that's just style and grace of hip hop, it's just music at times, as difficult as it's to believe.

[EminemInsider]

The United States government has lied to its people for every major war its entered. There are pieces of proof for all these wars. That's the point.

"Pieces of proof" you got from the media.

First of all, my John F Kennedy speech video had nothing to do with 9/11. It was merely about secret societies in general, and Kennedy's attempt to eliminate it, only for him to be eliminated.

The speech video is from the media.

For videos of the people I'm accusing to surface with them sipping champagne and laughing about how they got away with it?

Videos that surfaced in the media.

You keep saying you want evidence, we're telling you an easier method.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1166827/

Watch it if you want evidence. Critically acclaimed documentary produced by critically acclaimed personnel

.

IMDB is a media source. The documentary is from the media.

Yawn. Again, I don't listen to any pieces of media that you're alluding to.

I get my information from books,

Books are media.

I get my information from the teachings of scholars,

You define fucking Immortal Technique as a "scholar." That tells us everything we need to know about you.

I get my information from the work of the great Martin Luther King,

Martin Luther King believed in the Illuminati and would be saying 9/11 was an inside job?

I'm going to venture a guess that if he were alive today, he would laugh his ass off at you.

my brother Malcolm X

Credibility over. Not that you had any to begin with.

and many others.

Yeah, right. That was your entire list, and you were just using the names of people you've seen mentioned by media sources before as being critics of the US government at one time or another.

Never once have I got my info from any journalist, TV or internet etc.

Uh...

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1166827/

my John F Kennedy speech video

The only ever youtube videos i watch on this type on politics is about situations that have happened in history, such as speeches or whatever. Never have I watched a movie or anything made on youtube.

This sentence is a mess. Your grammar is terrible. But I'm sure you're smarterer den all of uz.

[dead prez]

@ EminemInsider

The rappers who focus on punchlines tend to also focus on multis, so I don't know what you're trying to get at here.

That all rappers are different and we shouldn't just base thier lyricism of one aspect because that's pretty close minded and selective.

Rappers who don't use multis are pretty much a thing of the past.

There's a difference between using multies every now and than ,being Eminem level in it. They all vary.

He has tons of multis in 8 Mile Road, actually.

Wtf? No it isn't. It's had one of his most basic rhymes. Multies I guess, but it was far from his most complex song lyrically.

Prime Eminem's multis never disrupted the flow of the song. Punchline emcees inevitably jam them in there.

Like I showed earlier with the Jay verse no they didn't they had complete business being in that verse and wasn't randomly thrown in.

And you think a line such as, "I kept feeding her money till her shit started to make sense" is GOOD?

Hey I gave you what you asked for punchlines/metaphors being used within context of the song and not out off place, so don't get mad at me for providing you with what you asked for.

And two the lines

We used to fight for building blocks
Now we fight for blocks with buildings that make a killing

are a nice metaphor comparing the building blocks as children you know toy blocks, two actual street blocks which hustlers fight for.

Eminem says something like that and most of us are facepalming.

It would be out of date nowadays I admit, the sense/cents metaphor but no Eminem's punchlines are just straight ass.

Jay-Z should be thankful he got the Premo instrumental to carry that song.

Are you really shitting on a classic song?

"I kept feeding her money till her shit started to make sense"...cliche, and hollow. Plays on the word "shit" are lame. Bad example.

I was thinking more of the first two lines of the verse, but yeah as I said it'd be outdated nowadys.

First is a punchline...

What's your point do you even know what it means?

second is an "explanation" of the common urban idiom, "put a battery in (one's) back." The metaphor itself isn't Nas's, he's just turning a metaphor that had already been around into a punchline through the reference to the brand of battery.

And apparently you don't know Nas' history, he used that line because of the fact that his best friend Ill Will was shot, which was what really motivated Nas to take rapping seriously and therefore hence sparked his creativity, I guess.

How is that obvious?

What about those songs?

Well the dictions for one he uses is much more fanciful, and is less direct. You could tell in his lyrics with his constant allusions to Malcom X and the imagery he has. He's a lot more worldy is what I'm saying basically.

Lupe succeeds at making his brand of shitty verses that fool people into thinking he's deep. That's really all you were ultimately saying when you wrote, "and he succeeds at it" in response to what I had written. I was pointing out Canibus is able to do the same with his own brand of shitty verses.

So because they're not filled with multies every line they suck, or because they can't be listened to at face value they suck?

Bringing up race doesn't make one a racist, idiot.

I just explained in the point you quoted why it does you idiot, so yeah.

The fact that you can't effectively argue against Eminem without insisting upon punchlines being VITAL to being a great rapper (Nas and Jay-Z aren't exactly "punchline" emcees either, yet you're attempting to blow them in this thread).

I said metaphors and double entendres you automatically lumped them into the punchline category, so.

Also, the fact that when pressed on the issue, you immediately try to bring up race helping his popularity/record sales, when that has absolutely nothing to do with what I'm talking about. It shows that it's always on your mind.

I only brought that up in the first place because you insisted that he was the Mike Jordan of rap and you can only really go by his sales, which is the only empricial evidence you can use that put him above his contemporaries.

Except it isn't. His music is the concrete thing supporting it.

To you probably.

Or maybe you have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to Eminem's past.

Lol, he lost to Juice fair and square at the rap olympics, are you really insinuating it was because of his race that he lost?

Nobody was putting him on a pedestal in the underground, idiot.

Probably because his music was straight garbage than.

Why the fuck should I talk about the "advantages" he has in terms of SALES AFTER he was signed? What does that have to do with the fact that "hip hawp" elitists won't give him his due simply BECAUSE he's white?

Which Hip Hope elitists have yoy been referring to? Stop speaking absolutes and acting that just because they don't put Eminem in they're top five they're automatically racist.

No. You and he are racially insecure. That's why you two feel the need to make general assertions about "black rappers of equal or better skill" when a closer examination reveals it's comical to even insinuate they exist.

He never said black rappers you numbskull you made the retarded strawman of him claiming exclusively black rappers when you quoted him, and got all butthurt because he doesn't think Eminem is the goat.

"Don't even try to say this, because that'll just make you look like a complete idiot." Oh, what sound argumentative skills you have.

Yep, because the entire fullcrum of your argument has been playing retarded appeal to motives, if you hadn't gotten on his case for assuming he was a racist for not sucking Eminem off, we wouldn't be having this discussion in the first place.

Sorry, but it's blatantly obvious you're adjusting every "opinion" just for the sake of the argument.

LOL, you don't think I actually listen to her and just mentioning her to sound politically correct?

Based on your Nas examples, it's pretty obvious you really don't.

I already explained why they were in the previous points so...

And...? Why are they important? What do they really contribute to the song?

They help give them imagery or make them more lively. It's not that hard really. Not to mention it just makes your raps more proffessional, I mean seriously did you take English class?

I'm explaining why punchlines are useless in my book.

Well I just explained why they weren't well metaphors/similes and double entendres anyway.

You're just asserting repeatedly that they are important and not going into any further detail. Apparently, 100% of the burden of proof is on me, but you can say whatever you want and not back up any of it and that's perfectly acceptable in your world.

Burden of proof is on whoever makes the claim and usually on the positive, but making the claim takes precedence over the positive. You said that punchlines are useless, you have to explain why, if I first said that they were important than that would be on me.

The burden of proof is on me to prove punchlines AREN'T vital to lyricism?

If you make the claim than yes. And the burden of proof was for you to prove why you think Eminem is the GOAT, and why you think multies are the end all be all for lyricism.

You want to see what "metaphors" look like, look up Don McLean's "American Pie."

Are you really trying to come all pretentious at me.

Name a highly-regarded rapper who doesn't make significant use of multis.

Prodigy, O.C., Guru. Than again seeing as how multies range from just being good to Eminem style, it varies.

Because genres are generally all tied to one another. They affect each other. Other genres have impacted rap, and vice-versa. You can see numerous elements cross over. Multis actually didn't even originate in rap music.

And using metaphors didn't originate in rap music either punchlines maybe, but not metaphors. And again you're still using the tired cliche it's used in other genres so it's more legit.

Rap isn't actually based off poetry. You should really take a music history class.

Metaphors are commonly used in poetry. They're not commonly used in rap music.

It's spoken word poetry, I mean really.

Yeah, I'm really upset Eminem can't come up with shit like...I dunno...

"It's like I haven't gone through puberty, the way I come/cum so clear"

It just leaves such a gaping hole in Eminem's music.

If Eminem spits half the punchlines the "guys who shit on him" spit, people will still give him shit for it (and rightly so).

And I'm upset because Nas and Jay can't write

"Imitator intimidator, stimulator, simulator of data, eliminator"

so hard.

Read: Imitation doesn't mean something IS great. But if something IS great, it WILL be imitated.

You idiot, you said great art is imitated, are you really backtracking on your words now?

No, I don't think it is.

When someone rips it, someone rips it.

And when someone makes a really clever line I can appreciate it over and over again, so.

LOL, you don't even recognize Eminem's rhyme patterns.

Sing For the Moment shits on everything on MMLP rhyme-wise...except maybe the first verse of Amityville. And TES as an album has better rhyming than MMLP.

Like I said, what Eminem does technique-wise with his lyrics sails over your head, even though you insist it doesn't.

Uh no Drug Ballad, Still Don't give a fuck, Remember me, Hellbound, only fair to warn are way better than any TES song rhyme scheme wise.

I said "Kim," not "Kill You."

And did it ever occur to YOU that the reason they were ABLE to make the video is because of how vivid Eminem's narration was?

Part off it.

How would you even go about making a video of any of the other story telling songs you listed? Everyone is probably picturing something different. The "Kim" videos probably reflect what just about everyone was picturing...because Eminem is that good at illustrating what it is he's talking about.

You really don't think you can make a vidoe off of Nigga's bleed? Or even Gihad and Impossible (well Ghostface's verses). Going by your retarded logic, I guess this is the greatest story ever (many hip hop fans would say it is).

Because look someone made a video out off it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfYrZGA2NrQ

You used one example to try to prove some broader point.

And you've been doing the same with your false analogies to try anddownplay metaphors and punchlines.

It still went over people's heads. Most people are idiots.

Two completely different type off going over people's heads, one is because the consumers are stupid as fuck, and one because the artist is actually a good lyricist in that regard.

Uh...no. Criminal had nothing to do with trying to gain attention and everything to do with making the point that other shit he'd said in the past he just said for shock value and overall entertainment. This song was making a point while simultaneously mocking those who don't understand the context of his music.

So do you admit that his lyrics were just generic shock rap verses right? He does play it off well and feeds on those stupid enough to take them seriously. Or maybe he's just a hypocrite who did that for attention cursing out gays, yet at the grammys was shaking hand with Elton John.

That website is horrible. They're just inventing meanings as they go along. I did the same thing with "Music Box" a few weeks ago. LOL @ people trying to speak FOR Lupe, giving 2-3 sentence explanations for the broad meaning behind every 3 word bar.

Or maybe you're just mad because hardly any of Eminem's songs need explanations and can all be taken at face value, so you're trying to discredit a decent site for explaining songs, which is as stupid as me discrediting wikipedia if you link me to a page on it to prove a point.

[stillmatic]

I'm not going to bother owning stillmatic since EminemInsider already laid the smackdown, so I'll just point out where stillmatic owned himself:

Laid the smackdown? Homie please tell me you're not one of those wrestling geeks who's like 40 and speaks like that, come on man that's just embarrassing.

Owned myself? Again, you fail to understand my point. Perhaps I'm wording it wrong.

Immortal Technique does believe in the illuminati. What I'm trying to tell you as I said many times in my post is that he is MORE than an illuminati rapper. That's what I've been trying to tell you. That's why I brought out the comparisons to Chuck D, KRS One. I'll give you more and more if you want. Prodigy believes in the illuminati, he has songs about it, does that make him an illuminati rapper?

------------

Hmm, sounds exactly like my summary.

No its not, for the simple fact that I'm telling there is proof for each of these incidents. You're saying that I was trying to say that just because one happened, so did the other. I'm telling you no, there's proof for each of these. How hard is this to comprehend?

Of course it doesn't... so why talk about it? Ignoratio elenchi.
We're talking about whether the government did 9/11 or not, not what the government did when Kennedy was alive. If you want to prove that the towers came down by controlled demolition (or whatever), then research the physics behind the collapse and make logical conclusions via the scientific method. If you aren't going to do that, you'll be laughed at.

Because we're talking about 9/11 AND the illuminati. Two different discussions it can be said.

My JFK video related to the illuminati (secret societies). Are you seriously going to spin this? Keep posting smilies, it doesn't make your spins any less weird.

You can keep laughing, and asking for more and more evidence, but you keep on shifting the goalposts. There's the politics, there's the history, there's the people, now it's the scientific proof you want? Really? In conclusion, as I said in my previous posts because you keep choosing to ignore many aspects and discuss different things time and time again, I've given you an easier way to see proof all the proof you want - watch Zeitgeist.

Btw. I'm actually studying civil engineering, I don't think I was smart enough to do structural. Damn Illuminati always holding a brother back!

[TheGentlePlayer]

Immortal Technique is?

[Iris]

Immortal Technique is?

A rapper who uses big words to make halfwits open their dictionaries and think he's smart.

[EminemInsider]

That all rappers are different and we shouldn't just base thier lyricism of one aspect because that's pretty close minded and selective.

I never said we should base them off one aspect. I just said that punchlines should be the last thing we use to judge their lyricism. You're insisting on its importance because it's the only way you can discredit Eminem.

Wtf? No it isn't. It's had one of his most basic rhymes. Multies I guess, but it was far from his most complex song lyrically.

See, you can't even identify multis. You're not qualified to judge the quality of rhyming because you don't fully recognize it.

No, it's not his most complex song rhyme-wise, but then that's because it's Eminem we're talking about. You take the great rhyming out of 8 mile road and it doesn't work.

Like I showed earlier with the Jay verse no they didn't they had complete business being in that verse and wasn't randomly thrown in.

So you found one example where a rapper didn't have to make everything choppy to fit it in. Great. Of course, Jay-Z isn't huge on punchlines...that's probably why.

Hey I gave you what you asked for punchlines/metaphors being used within context of the song and not out off place, so don't get mad at me for providing you with what you asked for.

I don't remember asking for that, I just remember saying that the "punchline emcees" tend to disrupt their songs by cramming them in.

And two the lines

We used to fight for building blocks
Now we fight for blocks with buildings that make a killing

are a nice metaphor comparing the building blocks as children you know toy blocks, two actual street blocks which hustlers fight for.

That's not a metaphor. It's just a play on words.

It would be out of date nowadays I admit, the sense/cents metaphor but no Eminem's punchlines are just straight ass.

And if he weren't making a point of doing them now, you'd never know and probably wouldn't even be bringing it up...

Are you really shitting on a classic song?

Nope, just pointing out the fact that the beat out-shines Jay-Z on that track.

What's your point do you even know what it means?

Point was it's not a metaphor.

And apparently you don't know Nas' history, he used that line because of the fact that his best friend Ill Will was shot, which was what really motivated Nas to take rapping seriously and therefore hence sparked his creativity, I guess.

Doesn't change the fact that the metaphor itself isn't one Nas came up with. He referenced a commonly used metaphor.

Well the dictions for one he uses is much more fanciful, and is less direct. You could tell in his lyrics with his constant allusions to Malcom X and the imagery he has. He's a lot more worldy is what I'm saying basically.

Nas is a "street poet." Eminem has a different background. Eminem makes allusions to medical terminology and celebrities. You can tell he watches the Discovery Channel and wasn't lying about reading the dictionary. But...he's white. He's not gonna rap about Malcolm X or African politics.

So because they're not filled with multies every line they suck, or because they can't be listened to at face value they suck?

Because they're vague simply for the sake of being vague.

I just explained in the point you quoted why it does you idiot, so yeah.

Racism=belief in a racial hierarchy.

Bringing up someone else's subconscious racism doesn't make the person who brought it up a racist. That's just purely illogical.

I said metaphors and double entendres you automatically lumped them into the punchline category, so.

And was I wrong in determining what it was you were referring to? You've mentioned several times now that Eminem's punchlines suck.

I only brought that up in the first place because you insisted that he was the Mike Jordan of rap and you can only really go by his sales, which is the only empricial evidence you can use that put him above his contemporaries.

That's what you say. I say otherwise.

Lol, he lost to Juice fair and square at the rap olympics, are you really insinuating it was because of his race that he lost?

First of all, the loss to Juice was at 97 Scribble Jam, not the Rap Olympics. It went something like 6 overtime rounds before they decided on a winner.

Secondly, I wasn't talking about those freestyle battles. He was actually quite popular by that point (the fact that he was the runner up in both 97 SJ and the Rap Olympics attests to that), but his situation still looked grim because nobody wanted to sign the white guy.

Probably because his music was straight garbage than.

Ha. Right. The guy who made It's OK, Never 2 Far, and Backstabber was straight garbage.

Funny enough...the biggest criticism he heard was that he sounded "too much like Nas and AZ" on Infinite. So much for "straight garbage"...

Which Hip Hope elitists have yoy been referring to? Stop speaking absolutes and acting that just because they don't put Eminem in they're top five they're automatically racist.

I'm not even talking about the Top 5, Top 10 lists. I'm talking about the ubiquitous "Eminem is overrated. There are many black rappers who are better than him skill-wise but they don't get the hype because they're not white and all over MTV" remarks.

The people who write this don't appreciate the genius of what Eminem does. They just make this remark without grasping even half of what he's doing in his music. This remark stems from the fact that he's the white guy on MTV doing music that is still predominantly black. These are the types of people who will insist Rakim has better multis than Eminem...for no other reason than Rakim is at or near the top of the list when it comes to BLACK rappers who are known for multis. In actuality, as good as Rakim is, there's no comparison. And that's an empirical judgment.

He never said black rappers you numbskull you made the retarded strawman of him claiming exclusively black rappers when you quoted him, and got all butthurt because he doesn't think Eminem is the goat.

I'm pretty confident in saying he was alluding to black rappers. Maybe he can come in here and claim otherwise, but he's been mysteriously absent.

And he didn't just say, "Eminem isn't the greatest ever." He made the absurdly idiotic remark of saying, "the only thing Eminem was EVER good at is multis." Even you didn't agree with what he wrote. So naturally, when someone writes something THAT idiotic, I assume the worst; he's playing a racial balancing act.

It's like Stillmatic and his hilariously idiotic conspiracy theory posts. Anything stupid he writes from now on I'm going to evaluate for signs of common idiotic ideologies.

LOL, you don't think I actually listen to her and just mentioning her to sound politically correct?

You've probably listened to a few things and just made mental note. I doubt she's anywhere near your top "Most Played"...

They help give them imagery or make them more lively. It's not that hard really. Not to mention it just makes your raps more proffessional, I mean seriously did you take English class?

More professional?

That's the word you're going to use?

I think it's you who didn't take English class.

Yes, they make filler more entertaining...sometimes. For concept songs, I can do without. I think most people would agree.

Burden of proof is on whoever makes the claim and usually on the positive, but making the claim takes precedence over the positive. You said that punchlines are useless, you have to explain why, if I first said that they were important than that would be on me.

So if I said, "God does not exist" first, the burden of proof would all be on me?

Sorry, doesn't work that way. Everyone in an argument has the burden of proof. This isn't the US judicial system.

If you make the claim than yes. And the burden of proof was for you to prove why you think Eminem is the GOAT, and why you think multies are the end all be all for lyricism.

You're making claims, too. The burden of proof is on everyone.

Never said they were the be-all-end-all for lyricism. For someone who claims "straw man" so much, you sure do use it quite a bit.

Are you really trying to come all pretentious at me.

Nope, just referring you to something that should demonstrate why talking about "metaphors" in rap music is rather silly.

Prodigy, O.C., Guru. Than again seeing as how multies range from just being good to Eminem style, it varies.

You're reaching...

And using metaphors didn't originate in rap music either punchlines maybe, but not metaphors. And again you're still using the tired cliche it's used in other genres so it's more legit.

And I'm still saying - genius is always imitated.

It's spoken word poetry, I mean really.

But that's not what it actually originated from.

And I'm upset because Nas and Jay can't write

"Imitator intimidator, stimulator, simulator of data, eliminator"

so hard.

Non-sequitur. That's just random gibberish. I'm sure they COULD write shit like that. Multis that don't make any sense don't do you any good.

But Nas and Jay can't write:

Then I got up and ran to the janitor's storage booth
Kicked the door hinge loose and ripped out the 4-inch screws
Grabbed some sharp objects, brooms, and foreign tools
This is for every time you took my orange juice
Or stole my seat in the lunchroom, and drank my chocolate milk
Every time you tipped my tray and it dropped and spilt

or

Coast to coast shows, he's known as the globe trotter
Lonely roads, God only knows he's grown farther
From home, he's no father
He goes home and barely knows his own daughter
But hold your nose, cause here goes the cold water
These hoes don't want him no more, he's cold product
They moved onto the next shmo who flows
He nose-dove and sold nada
And so the soap opera is told and unfolds
I suppose it's old partna
But the beat goes on
(da-da-dum, da-dum...)

Read: Imitation doesn't mean something IS great. But if something IS great, it WILL be imitated.

You idiot, you said great art is imitated, are you really backtracking on your words now?

NO. You need to work on your reading comprehension.

If something is great, it WILL be imitated. Period.

However, just BECAUSE something is imitated does not mean it's great art. Things that aren't great art can be imitated, too.

So the aspect of having been imitated doesn't MEAN something is great. However, if something ISN'T imitated, it clearly couldn't have been great.

And when someone makes a really clever line I can appreciate it over and over again, so.

Well, I think you're in the minority. I don't think most people want to hear the same punchline over and over again.

Uh no Drug Ballad, Still Don't give a fuck, Remember me, Hellbound, only fair to warn are way better than any TES song rhyme scheme wise.

Three of the Five you listed aren't even on MMLP.

Seems to me like the TES rhyme schemes went over your head. Hell, the first verse of Till I Collapse basically ends this discussion.

Sing For the Moment's inverse rhyme schemes (which I alluded to in the "Eminem Rhymes People May Not Have Noticed" thread) also end this discussion.

And did you put REMEMBER ME down? Eminem has one verse, and that's a marginal verse rhyme-wise by his standards.

You really don't think you can make a vidoe off of *****'s bleed? Or even Gihad and Impossible (well Ghostface's verses). Going by your retarded logic, I guess this is the greatest story ever (many hip hop fans would say it is).

Because look someone made a video out off it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfYrZGA2NrQ

You could, but people would be questioning whether they interpreted it correctly.

Two completely different type off going over people's heads, one is because the consumers are stupid as fuck, and one because the artist is actually a good lyricist in that regard.

So apparently you think having songs that are easily understood is a bad thing.

So do you admit that his lyrics were just generic shock rap verses right? He does play it off well and feeds on those stupid enough to take them seriously. Or maybe he's just a hypocrite who did that for attention cursing out gays, yet at the grammys was shaking hand with Elton John.

Cursing out gays?

This song is a response to people who called him homophobic strictly because of a couple jokes he made in "My Name Is." He never "cursed out gays."

He made those jokes originally (along with many others that had to do with other people; i.e. NON-gays) because he comes from an area where that style of rap was prevalent (shock value lines). The entirely of D12 says/said things like that...of course, when Eminem does it he's "doing it for publicity"...not because that's the style of rap he grew up around or anything.

Or maybe you're just mad because hardly any of Eminem's songs need explanations and can all be taken at face value, so you're trying to discredit a decent site for explaining songs, which is as stupid as me discrediting wikipedia if you link me to a page on it to prove a point.

Yeah, damn you Eminem for making songs that reasonably intelligent people are able to actually understand.

Yo, you're whack, cuz everyone understands what you say
But when I get on the mic, I make milk out of clay
And I play, air guitar with a tube of toothpaste
And I say, "karate pencil case," and put it on tape

No, the website sucks because the people who try to explain these lyrics tend to be idiots.

I mean, look at this stuff:


Eyeless- He doesn’t see how these whack rappers find good int their music, which means he’s (also a play on “peerless” — can’t peer at things without eyes, now can you?)
*

You get "he can't see how these whack rappers find good in their music" out of "which means I'm eyeless?"


Tearless- Which means he has no regrets

You get "he has no regrets" out of "which means I'm tearless?"


Iris resides where my ears is- Pays attention to what he hears
*

How does his iris, a part of the eye, supposedly "residing where his ears are," refer to him "paying attention to what he hears?" You know how I interpreted it? I interpreted it as him saying his listeners can't actually see him (this line is from their perspective), so he has to make them "see" through their EARS, since that's all they have to go by.

But what do I know?


Blinded- He “sees” the music he hears, which sucks so bad it “blinds” him
*

LOL...what? You get "the music he hears sucks so bad it blinds him" out of him saying "which means I'm blinded?" Again...just MY interpretation here...he's saying he's blinded by the constraints he has with the communication...he and his listeners can't actually "see" each other, so he has to do his best to work around it using his other senses.


I'mma find it- he’ll find what makes people interested in whack rappers
*

Again, LOL @ this interpretation. Couldn't be about him finding a way to reach his audience or anything.


Veering- But not staying away from it, meaning his music isn’t gonna come near that whack stuff

Again, LOL @ this interpretation.

[classthe_king]

Immortal Technique is?

A rapper who uses big words to make halfwits open their dictionaries and think he's smart.

A rapper who is stereotyped and misunderstood by people like Iris

[xxTrigger1989xx]

This shit didn't become 20 pages like I figured...