Em and "You"

[Bananastyle]

TL;DR

I've been lurking this forum for ~ a month. I've seen so many posts/threads deciphering why Eminem has fallen off in recent times. I will concede that your reasons of yelling, corny punchlines, and choppy flows do add fuel to the fire, but I'm going to politefully disagree and say the main reason Em isn't the powerhouse that he was during the time period including and preceding The Eminem Show can be summed up into one, three letter word. You. Before anyone takes that the wrong way, I am not using "you" as a general blanket statement for people, Eminem fans, or you personally. I'm talking about the actual word.

Let me start off by saying that I'm old enough to remember being in 8th grade and not being able to buy the SSLP when it came out, because of it's parental advisory content and reviews of it's lyrics and substance that my parents had read. I only say that to enforce the fact that I've been listening to Eminem since his lyrics and CD's were socially relevant and "fresh" to the hip hop/music scene. I can clearly remember the first time I got a CD and was like "WTF?, Eminem sucks now!" D12 World came out on my 19th birthday and I was pretty fucking excited about it. So, my girlfriend at the time actually woke up early and was at Best Buy when it opened so I would have it in my hands the moment I woke up. While, to this day, I still see the thoughtfulness behind the gift, it was the most disappointing present I got that year. THAT, ladies and gentlemen, was the turning point for old Marshall Mathers.

With that being said, let me venture back to my original point and the word "you".

There was one main thing (outside impressive lyricism) that made Eminem the rap beast he became, and that was personal/true to life storytelling.

Almost 100% of the time in Eminem lyrics circa 2001 and earlier, he could use the word "you" and on the spot you would be certain as to who he was speaking to or speaking of. He personalized his songs and content in a way that made this possible. Whether that be his daughter, his wife, Dr. Dre, whoever he was beefing with at the time, etc. He specifically singled out people and events which added an incredibly personal flair to his music.

Now look at 90% of his music post Eminem Show. He speaks generically about things. His use of the word "you" has no meaning anymore, because he's not speaking to or about anyone/anything specifically. There's no story or person to affiliate with his lyrics and that inherently makes him fall into the same category as every other above average rapper. This is when the constant screaming and borderline retarded punchlines shine through. He still has the ability to express his feelings and outlook on life, like was shown in Deja Vu, Going Through Changes, and The Warning. I'm sure everyone can admit that Going Through Changes is a diamond in the rough on Recovery since it shows that personal side of Eminem that we have grown accustomed to.

We were spoiled since he had 25+ years worth of material and life stories to write songs for his first 3 albums. Now that he has spilled the beans on a lot of his shadowy past he is just running out of things to talk about.

I personally think his next album will absolutely be amazing. He has his feet firmly planted back in the "game" his style and flow has been critiqued on numerous occasions and he will take all of that in addition to his personal life and combine them to go back into beastmode and make another lethal album.

Yes, his punchlines, flow, and incessant yelling does not do him any justice but it would be much more acceptable if he returned to his roots of speaking specifically about things close to him where you can actually hear and feel the emotion in his music.

Discuss.

[Devil'sAdvocate]

Em is the GOAT.

wait,what is this thread abt?

[MikeNUFC]

Well written, and I can agree with a lot of it.

I still think it's his technique that's really missing though - shit, I don't relate to Drips or Cum On Everybody (who does?!) but I fucking love them - I guess, along with the technique, this was due to how original and natural they sounded compare to Recovery and beyond.

I personally think his next album will absolutely be amazing. He has his feet firmly planted back in the "game" his style and flow has been critiqued on numerous occasions and he will take all of that in addition to his personal life and combine them to go back into beastmode and make another lethal album.

I hope you're right. I just can't see it - he seems to be 'stuck' in a rut right now - a lack of direction in his music means he's following trends to a ridiculous extent. Making punchline records with Slaughterhouse won't help his cause

Time will tell though.

[Mikey1990]

Recovery is the best Eminem album we could have got
he doesn't the same wit or energy back in the 99-02 days

[Bananastyle]

Em is the GOAT.

wait,what is this thread abt?

I won't disagree that he is the greatest.

I'm actually going to digress from my original point and add to that his clever storytelling even about make believe people or things allowed him to be specific and convey an visual image with his words.

What I'm saying is look at a song like "My Fault" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRy0l-NCD-I
He's not even talking about a real person and says "you" and "your's"at least 100 times in that song and you know exactly who he is referring to and can follow along and picture what he is saying.

For a real life example listen to "Kim" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3tlPgLPdV8 even without knowing the name to the song or before you get to the part where he says her name, you know who that song is directed towards.

Now, listen to "So Bad" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfEad9OaYqo
"Cinderella Man" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ie6eeW-T47I& or "Seduction" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxR9ZAoG7fA feature=related

Who is he talking to? What is talking about? They're just a jumbled mess of words that rhyme that contains content he used to make songs about and has no background story or story at all for that matter. Which gives us nothing to grab on to make these songs meaningful or give us the ability to picture the message he's trying to convey.

Don't misconstrue my intention, I still enjoy listening to Relapse/Refill/Recovery but it's missing the personalization that made Eminem levels and miles ahead of the next best.

[One Mic]

I agree with most of what you said, but I personally thought Em's verses on D12 World were actually pretty good compared to a few on Encore.

Agreed.

Devils Night is obviously the #1 D12 album, and superior in every aspect, but I thought D12 World had some good tracks on it;

* Git Up
* How Come
* 6 In The Morning
* 40 Oz
* American Psycho II
* Bitch

and I can even tolerate 'My Band', it's a good single for what it is. Was a big track back in the day!

[j04370859]

Em is the GOAT.

wait,what is this thread abt?

I won't disagree that he is the greatest.

I'm actually going to digress from my original point and add to that his clever storytelling even about make believe people or things allowed him to be specific and convey an visual image with his words.

What I'm saying is look at a song like "My Fault" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRy0l-NCD-I
He's not even talking about a real person and says "you" and "your's"at least 100 times in that song and you know exactly who he is referring to and can follow along and picture what he is saying.

For a real life example listen to "Kim" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3tlPgLPdV8 even without knowing the name to the song or before you get to the part where he says her name, you know who that song is directed towards.

Now, listen to "So Bad" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfEad9OaYqo
"Cinderella Man" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ie6eeW-T47I& or "Seduction" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxR9ZAoG7fA feature=related

Who is he talking to? What is talking about? They're just a jumbled mess of words that rhyme that contains content he used to make songs about and has no background story or story at all for that matter. Which gives us nothing to grab on to make these songs meaningful or give us the ability to picture the message he's trying to convey.

Don't misconstrue my intention, I still enjoy listening to Relapse/Refill/Recovery but it's missing the personalization that made Eminem levels and miles ahead of the next best.

After reading that I don't understand why you think his next album will be amazing.

[NicoleEM]

I agree with most of what you said, but I personally thought Em's verses on D12 World were actually pretty good compared to a few on Encore.

Agreed.

Devils Night is obviously the #1 D12 album, and superior in every aspect, but I thought D12 World had some good tracks on it;

* Git Up
* How Come
* 6 In The Morning
* 40 Oz
* American Psycho II
* Bitch

and I can even tolerate 'My Band', it's a good single for what it is. Was a big track back in the day!

Tbh i listen to D12 world more.
On topic:I agree with the OP.As i said before,at first i thought it was the shouting,but neah, those punchlines don't fit his style and seem forced.And i doubt he will get out of it soon,specially since that seems to be the styled used by most rappers these days.No storytelling,no subject to relate to.Thats why I still like LTWYL(hate it all u want but it has a story behind those verses) and i think Going thru changes is a better tribute song for Proof.Thats why i am looking forward for the next D12 album(full team),cause they aren't really into that style and might help him get back to his old style.
Not sure about his next album being amazing tho,hope your right.

[Bananastyle]

After reading that I don't understand why you think his next album will be amazing.

Just a hunch :/

[Graphic]

Well said.

[OneDream_89]

^^much like left and right
Eminem went too "left" with Relapse , and when they criticized him he went too "right"
after criticizing that too , where well he go to?

nothing else but the middle = the right way .. that's my vision of it

things arent always that simple... im sorry, but i honestly cant see another classic coming out of Eminem top hat...

[IrishShady]

Good points made, don't understand everything but thanks.

[Bananastyle]

Thats why I still like LTWYL(hate it all u want but it has a story behind those verses)

I agree that it's a very passionate and wholeheartedly wrote song on his part, and is actually a PERFECT example of what I'm talking about. But you have to disregard the hook and who sings it.

Compare "Love The Way You Lie" to "Love You More" and you'll see that when he's rhyming exclusively about a single known subject the song comes across SO much more intense and it's these little nuances that propel an artist from great to greatest.



In a nutshell, I'm really just saying that his flow can be overlooked (i.e. "Mockingbird" was still a pretty fucking good song), his punchlines have a place (pretty much anything in the Infinite-->SSLP era), and there are times his screaming is the best way to convey what he's trying to get across(you can see that throughout his whole career).

But, if there is no backbone to the song and it comes across as a universal story that contain rhyming words and nothing explicit to tie his lyrics to, then his songs and music will just get lost in the shuffle with no way to distinguish his greatness besides of who he was in the past. He can make shitty music all day long with accents and Special Olympic-esque wordplay, but if he would just add a quote unquote frame to his songs, he wouldn't catch nearly as much shit as he does. IMO obviously.

[Fleka]

I think that everybody is missing a point here. Eminem is a true artist. He lives through his music and his music, his music is his reflection. And Eminem is happy now. He is not young, hungry, revolted, mad dude from SSLP, or a young hungry and mad star from MMLP, or the man who`s life is getting out of control and the whole world is pointing finger at him for every bad shit that happens. Obviously, he is not stoned dude from Encore days. And you can see that in his music. There is no drama in his life now, he is one of the greatest and he earned respect from the whole world, he took care of his familly, got off drugs. So, there is no more raw energy in his songs. He is doing music just for fun now.

I also think, if we get a new album, it will be great. If he sticks to his and Dre`s production, maybe disses a few bitch-rappers, and makes a few songs about his shitty life before and Proof, but from his current perspective. I would like to hear what this Eminem could say about old Eminem and his life.
I think that is the only way for him to make another classic, just be him self in his songs. You can`t expect him to make an album like MMLP now, couse he is not MMLP Eminem anymore. He is not like 50, for example, who will always, no matter what the situation is, rap about jewels, cars, hoes and money.

[Hiphopdane]

You are already one of my favourite members here. Not every day that someone come up with a great post like that

Personally I've liked both albums since his comeback but as a big Eminem fan, I always expect something timeless. I hate this Old v New Eminem but back in the days he would have nailed the topic "Drug abuse" strictly because of his honesty. I know he was fond of drugs back then but I hope you know what I'm getting at... It seems like such a missed oppurtunity cus instead of going in depth with the ups and downs in recent years, he pretty much just tries to please the fans. Stuff such as Beautiful and Going Through Changes was what I expected Recovery to be all about and what I would have liked the most.

I also agree about the Slaughterhouse stuff Mike wrote. Joe Budden is the only member in the group that I can see having a positive influence on Eminem. He is not the best rapper in the world but he sticks to what he knows he is good at and doesn't try to be something he obviously isn't + he tends to write some really thoughtful songs. But sadly the members don't seem to let each other express themselves fully when they are a group.