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"Talent is Overrated"? (This blew my mind slightly)

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"Talent is Overrated"? (This blew my mind slightly)

Postby Erowid » Jul 23rd, '12, 21:13

Has anyone read/heard of this book? It basically suggests that 'talent' may not even be a thing (and if it DOES exist, it's most likely irrelevant to future success), and, although it obviously never mentions him, it kept reminding me of Em and his creative process.

One particularly interesting passage concerns Mozart's process (relation to Em's forthcoming). The general consensus/myth that we all basically accept is that Mozart was this divinely inspired demi-god, who started composing when he was 4, and whose works came to him fully formed, as if from God himself, and he just transcribed them in their naturally pristine state. Right?

Uh, well... apparently not. The book goes on to explain that the popular notion that Mozart imagined fully formed beautiful pieces of music in his head was completely made up, and that far from receiving divine intervention from an otherworldly muse, he wrote beautiful music because he worked hard, and obsessed over what he was writing. It was this quote in particular that TOTALLY reminded me of Em:

"Mozart did not conceive whole works in his mind, perfect and complete. Surviving manuscripts show that Mozart was constantly revising, reworking, crossing out and rewriting whole sections, jotting down fragments and putting them aside for months or years."

People, do you realize what this means?? Mozart "stacked ammo"! (though he probably wouldn't call it that... dur hur. :p :shifty: )

Just wanted to debunk the idea that because Em obviously "tries" he's not legitimately great. It's so easy to say that Em is inferior to Jay-z or Lil Wayne or whoever (some people try to say this anyway), because they supposedly improvise everything, while Em is deliberate about his rhymes, but the mere fact that something's improvised doesn't make it superior to something well thought-out. And the fact is, Jay and Wayne work their asses off too, guaranteed.

Anyway, just thought it was awesome to see that Mozart (who is widely considered the greatest composer ever) wrote music pretty much the exact same way that Em does/did. :y:
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Re: "Talent is Overrated"? (This blew my mind slightly)

Postby Amaranthine » Jul 23rd, '12, 21:14

Eminem = Mozart?

Sick. :y:
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Re: "Talent is Overrated"? (This blew my mind slightly)

Postby Sam. » Jul 23rd, '12, 21:18

Great find. Eminem does the exact same.

Soon as my flow starts, I compose art like the ghost of Mozart

:worship:
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Re: "Talent is Overrated"? (This blew my mind slightly)

Postby Erowid » Jul 23rd, '12, 21:30

Menzo wrote:"Soon as my flow starts, I compose art like the ghost of Mozart"


Huh, how'd I miss that? That's impressive. Like... sometimes I forget how phenomenal our homeboy Em can be when he's at his best.
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Re: "Talent is Overrated"? (This blew my mind slightly)

Postby Erowid » Jul 23rd, '12, 21:41

Geno wrote:
Menzo wrote:"Soon as my flow starts, I compose art like the ghost of Mozart"

I though that too


Hm, clearly Em knows what it's all about (whether he knows he knows it or not).

I just thought it was interesting, because clearly, all these "great" performers or artists (from Em to Mozart to Michael Jackson to... Ernest Hemingway... Idk) have something very important in common. And it's not innate "talent"-- it's a specific set of practices that they ALL choose to engage in (for whatever reason), that makes them world class, while everyone else remains just 'okay' (even at the thing they're best at, and that they spend 40 years of their life doing). To me at least, that's almost MORE impressive and mysterious than the idea of natural born talent.
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Re: "Talent is Overrated"? (This blew my mind slightly)

Postby dshady89 » Jul 23rd, '12, 21:43

Nice thread.

Don't know what to say, I still think some people are born with different skills, if you can consider that a talent.
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Re: "Talent is Overrated"? (This blew my mind slightly)

Postby Emadyville » Jul 23rd, '12, 22:01

Menzo wrote:"Soon as my flow starts, I compose art like the ghost of Mozart"


took 2 responses till this came, too late smh

interesting read tho :y:
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Re: "Talent is Overrated"? (This blew my mind slightly)

Postby Sam. » Jul 23rd, '12, 22:06

Revolutionary wrote:
Geno wrote:It's kind of a mystery and will probably always be that way because we can't watch his process behind the scenes.


That motherfucker :shakehead:
We should break into his studio and plant spy cameras, maybe he shits before he writes his lyrics so he'd be in a better mood :unsure: Or he jerks off to his favorite pornstar.....

He kills a small animal, drinks the blood of virgins and then goes and lays vocals.
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Re: "Talent is Overrated"? (This blew my mind slightly)

Postby JUMPDMC » Jul 23rd, '12, 22:09

This is not shocking news at all.
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Re: "Talent is Overrated"? (This blew my mind slightly)

Postby momentsgolden » Jul 23rd, '12, 22:50

Revolutionary wrote:We should break into his studio and plant spy cameras, maybe he shits before he writes his lyrics so he'd be in a better mood :unsure: Or he jerks off to his favorite pornstar.....


no, he shits WHILE he writes his lyrics.. no wonder we have no BTS. Sklyar grey was in the studio when he wrote INAD but ddnt notice him slip into the shitter lol
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Re: "Talent is Overrated"? (This blew my mind slightly)

Postby EminemBase » Jul 24th, '12, 00:32

Yeah exactly - all genius is a process.

People jump to mythical or overblown explanations when they don't understand things and don't care to try to really understand them.

I had an idea for a book a long time ago about how intelligence + obsession + passion = genius, basically. I won't give it all away as I still plan on writing it but... 'genius' is just a word we give to the amounted obsession of a very passionate person.

People say Michael Jackson was touched by god to dance etc. when, uh, no, it's because he used to practice 24 fucking 7 lmao. If you look at the best in any field or anybody you consider a genius or mind-blowing... all of them just practice A LOT more intensely and often.

Now, we do all have natural tendencies and limitations which may or may not be able to be bypassed or stretched to certain degrees but, our inclinations and our limits are what make us different from one another. And because of this, you could have two guys who practice X at the 'same' intensity for the same amount of time, and one guy could always be 'better' due to natural advantages.

Saying somebody has a god-given talent is sort of like seeing a flash and saying "that was a ghost", or looking at an animal, or the Earth and saying "this was done by a designer". They're sort of... non-answers, they're just assumptive cop-outs / avoidance of any true analysis.

Genius is the result of obsessive practice. And the way we get better at things is how natural-selection itself works. I realized not long ago that basically everything functions like natural selection. Think of the process of creating ANY art, or... anything really... we make changes, we see what works and throw out what doesn't work. That is natural-selection.

We are an upshot of natural-selection and so we think and function in a similar way. A genius is somebody who has mastered the art of natural-selection with his / her art or interest. They basically naturally-select and refine things very quickly, or, a lot, and retain good changes.

Talent is a reference, to a combination of natural ability and learned skill.
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Re: "Talent is Overrated"? (This blew my mind slightly)

Postby Emadyville » Jul 24th, '12, 03:56

^ one of the greatest posts ever on trshady, thank you embase :worship:
Menzo wrote:Its cuz you're dope and Daddy Dubs. No one fucks with that


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Re: "Talent is Overrated"? (This blew my mind slightly)

Postby Erowid » Jul 24th, '12, 07:05

Emadyville wrote:^ one of the greatest posts ever on trshady, thank you embase :worship:


I concur. Some really insightful points, especially the whole passion+obsession bit. That does seem to sum it up quite nicely come to think of it.
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Re: "Talent is Overrated"? (This blew my mind slightly)

Postby Erowid » Jul 24th, '12, 07:09

Oh and I realize this isn't groundbreaking. I wasn't shocked to learn that this was the case, it was just one of those really gratifying moments where something you suspected (but had no reason to assume) was shown to be true. Love it when that happens.
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Re: "Talent is Overrated"? (This blew my mind slightly)

Postby kiki » Jul 24th, '12, 09:02

Did you know neuroscientists (not sure about the right translation of the word) haven't 100% proven how talent vs. practice makes perfect works? Sooo.....Idgaf about what this book says.

PS: God-given talent? ummmm what about those who are the best at their thing and don't believe in God? :laughing:
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