Is this the reason some of the edge/attitude in Em's music

[RainMan44]

is missing?

Since Eminem said he basically "had to learn to rap again," do you think he in turn got too caught up and focused in on just the lyrical aspect of it, the intricacy in the rhyme schemes, trying to recapture all that....and as a result lost some of the edge/attitude/wittiness ?

[Mitchell3K]

He's 40 years old man, people change as they go through life. My attitude is way different then it was 10 years ago. And lets be honest nobody wants to see a 40 year old man with teenage daughters walking around in a video with a huge rubber ass on dissing Justin Beiber, you might think you want that, but you dont, it would be embarrassing.

[Willy]

His issue is that he is trying to conform to the current flavor of hip hop instead of just writing that clever ill shit that comes naturally to him.

[Emadyville]

5% possibility.

I think it's because time has passed, he has gotten older and changed a lot.

[Mitchell3K]

His issue is that he is trying to conform to the current flavor of hip hop instead of just writing that clever ill shit that comes naturally to him.

That clever ill shit doesn't come naturally anymore, verses like the ones in "Throw It Up" and "Richard" are him trying to be funny like the old days, it just doesn't work anymore. The sooner he accepts that, the better off he'll be.

Honestly, the only time I can put up with Em now is when he does serious tracks, any time he tries to be funny or act a fool it's cringe worthy.

[JuNiPER]

I think Eminem should retire after he drops his 8th studio album, cause by then he might be 41 or 42 and let's be honest nobody wants to see some old man rap.

[JamaicanPattlez]

He's 40 years old man, people change as they go through life. My attitude is way different then it was 10 years ago. And lets be honest nobody wants to see a 40 year old man with teenage daughters walking around in a video with a huge rubber ass on dissing Justin Beiber, you might think you want that, but you dont, it would be embarrassing.

Well of course he's not gonna do something like that at 40, but that doesn't mean the man can't be humorous at all. People wanted Serious Em, they got Recovery. They wanted Funny Em, we got stuff like I'm On Everything, Richard, and Throw That. He shouldn't even listen to the fans, fuck them. If they choose to not listen to what HE wants to make, that's THEIR problem. Dude doesn't even have to rap anymore, he's doing it because he enjoys it. People are acting like this motherfucker's REALLY gonna put out an album full of Richards, Throw That, and Throw It Up-type songs...

[_Hawk_]

Wait, you don't think that songs like 'cum on everybody' were just Eminem trying to invoke his humour into a track? Or Get You Mad, or perhaps Bad Influence or Nuttin' To Do? Some of Em's most under-appreciated early works are just quick songs, like Dead Wrong, that he found a concept (or was given a concept) for and absolutely nailed in one fluid session.

It is right to say that he's changed. His process of releasing music that has been naturally put together has changed drastically. Nowadays he finds a concept and scrambles to match a song to it, whereas in those SSLP/MMLP days his music stemmed from his lyrics sheets. obviously it still does, but his attempts to create new sounds and concepts leads to songs being compiled like TRSS. They sound forced (like Stay Wide Awake) and thus potentially unnecessary. At least in his early days songs like COE underlined his witty views to rap music or his attempts to get to where he is.

[UofLCard]

That clever ill shit doesn't come naturally anymore, verses like the ones in "Throw It Up" and "Richard" are him trying to be funny like the old days, it just doesn't work anymore. The sooner he accepts that, the better off he'll be.

This is why much of the storyline of Relapse falls flat with me. It's like was was trying to get back his wacky, psychotic edge he had with SSLP, but it just seems forced.

[_Hawk_]

Wait, you don't think that songs like 'cum on everybody' were just Eminem trying to invoke his humour into a track? Or Get You Mad, or perhaps Bad Influence or Nuttin' To Do?

Not sure if you're referring to me but since your response seems like a perfect comment towards what I said, here's my take. What I was getting at was that when Em goes into the studio to purposely write a song with jokes, it comes off as forced - like "Throw It Up" or for some people "Richard" (I liked the latter though). But when he uses his actual sense of humour, which evidently is witty/satirical and is executed almost nonchalantly, it shines much brighter.

It is right to say that he's changed. His process of releasing music that has been naturally put together has changed drastically. Nowadays he finds a concept and scrambles to match a song to it, whereas in those SSLP/MMLP days his music stemmed from his lyrics sheets. obviously it still does, but his attempts to create new sounds and concepts leads to songs being compiled like TRSS. They sound forced (like Stay Wide Awake) and thus potentially unnecessary. At least in his early days songs like COE underlined his witty views to rap music or his attempts to get to where he is.

I'm not sure I understand where you're getting that underlined point from, tbh Could you provide some examples? Preferably from his own album(s), most recently being Recovery obviously.

Yeah I agree with you on the first instance, however I feel that the vibrance with which Eminem would take to the studio in his early days would lead to those tracks being formed. Since Proof's death, he obviously isn't as happy as he once was (perhaps it's another day in an office he loves?) and thus these tracks will rarely flow out of him. It's possible, but we haven't seen it like we used to.

Regarding the underlined bit, I feel that concepts like LTWYL, Stay Wide Awake, Throw it Up, Richard et al are largely forced. i think he will have lines that he salvages for these songs, but I don't believe that much of his solo work, or his features, originates from ideas that materialise over time or with one great line or, as we have yet to witness these last few years, a beat he has produced. Stay Wide Awake is awesome, but it is so intricate it is difficult to get into.
Indeed, I used to think that a lot of the verses he used on his early features happened to be verses he had but couldn't match a complete song to. I wouldn't think that the quality of his current releases would indicate this 'stacking' of ideas. Having said that, concepts like 'Richard' are unique to a certain degree, so it's unlikely he would have something to have used for this. I did really like this verse. But it still doesn't feel like something he just spat out. Perhaps with a smooth flow and his 'Our House' voice it would (I will take either of the 'Our House' voices TBH. Kudos to any Eminem fan who gets what I'm saying here).

[EminemInsider]

He forgot both the technical part and the emotional part. He re-taught himself the technical part, for the most part...but he it's not so easy to re-teach yourself the emotional part. It's either there or it isn't.

He noticed it was missing on Relapse, but then his answer was to try to force it out of himself on Recovery. Didn't really work.

[EminemBase]

Yeah, not a bad point.

However with Relapse, that to me is its strength. Yes it is overwritten, it is verbose, it is shamelessly indulgent... but all the best things are 'too' much to me, that's what makes them stand out. If something tries to please everybody it's basically nothing...

The Marshall Mathers LP is sheer brilliance because it's TOTALLY uncompromising; track after track of lyrical fucking menace, total irony, total assault course, no let-up and no trying to 'balance the album' out as Em has tried to do ever since ('song for this', 'song for these people' etc. etc.).

Relapse actually has some of his most unique edge ever to me; not the silly stuff with shoving things up asses etc. obviously, that's just goofy, but lines like... "stay away from me - cause I'm dancing to QUITE a different drum-beat", the phrasing of that has a writer's flair, so he truly did lose himself in the penmanship, he lost himself in character and fell in love with phrasing...

And the tone is sinister, so mix sinister intent and morbid, ironic undertones and themes with obsessive, excessive and tailored phrasing and the result to me, was thrilling.

The same can actually be said for The Slim Shady LP which is why Relapse is in fact some kind of strange cousin album to that, in that he lost himself in persona and the phrasing is UNIQUE to that persona, there's a certain way he's saying things and sounding that you can totally identify in that style. Which is why people keep going "hmm, not Slim Shady" because they're trying to identify it, I think, with that original style and that 'way' of phrasing ideas.

Those two albums are beautiful exercises in character-driven lyricism, they're a way of speaking.

To go back to your original notion... yes, you have a point to a degree in that, Em is so focused on multi's and flows and delivery that the natural, conversational flow and attention to detail or standards of humour - you could say have slipped in directions.

But at the same time I also really like what he did on Recovery, and what he's been doing lately in terms of running this whole misogyny shtick in to the ground. Me personally, I love things that are SO beyond a joke, SO not funny that it's verging on psychotic. And the fact Em has hammered that nail so far in to the wall you can no longer see the nail-head, the people listening like "what the fuck, really? still? again?", I love that. And I wouldn't love it if he wasn't aware of what he was doing, but he clearly is ("SLUT this, SLUT that, learn the words to the song)...

That example I gave from "Cold Wind Blows" is actually a flash of his really funny humour to me. He's analyzing what he does as he does it, characterizing his own predictability, as he's doing it... it's, self-deprecating, and that's very MMLP-days. And I kind of like the fact he's doing it excessively angry lmao because again he knows he's doing that, so it's overkill. Which to me is a sign that he's back on track in terms of truly wanting to create uncompromising thrusts of styles and ideas, in your face, and piss people off back like he used to be, rather than cow-towing etc.

I think he's done enough of that now though. I've enjoyed the OTT slut screaming and intensity for what it is, but I want some original ideas now.

But, yeah, I mean... it's obvious to me he still has that spark of humour in there because I've heard it, it's simply less frequent and less original now, but he definitely still has that darkly comedic, edgy brilliance in there (BET Cypher), I think it's mostly style. I think if he changed his style, his tone etc. people would hear it totally differently. I sort of think he needs to stop being so clever for his own good and trying to speak to listeners and say everything he's doing and just sort, of, focus on concepts and ideas again, and that natural edge will shine through ("Almost Famous").

[CrashBand]

@Lello, he can still be funny.

I think the first line of the chorus in Richard is actually beautifully simple and really funny.

"Just call me Richard...............cos I'm a dick"

Just how ridiculous that line is, lmao. And he knows it is.

It's delivered perfectly. Em's still a funny guy.

[_Hawk_]

Yeah, not a bad point.

However with Relapse, that to me is its strength. Yes it is overwritten, it is verbose, it is shamelessly indulgent... but all the best things are 'too' much to me, that's what makes them stand out. If something tries to please everybody it's basically nothing...

The Marshall Mathers LP is sheer brilliance because it's TOTALLY uncompromising; track after track of lyrical fucking menace, total irony, total assault course, no let-up and no trying to 'balance the album' out as Em has tried to do ever since ('song for this', 'song for these people' etc. etc.).

Relapse actually has some of his most unique edge ever to me; not the silly stuff with shoving things up asses etc. obviously, that's just goofy, but lines like... "stay away from me - cause I'm dancing to QUITE a different drum-beat", the phrasing of that has a writer's flair, so he truly did lose himself in the penmanship, he lost himself in character and fell in love with phrasing...

And the tone is sinister, so mix sinister intent and morbid, ironic undertones and themes with obsessive, excessive and tailored phrasing and the result to me, was thrilling.

The same can actually be said for The Slim Shady LP which is why Relapse is in fact some kind of strange cousin album to that, in that he lost himself in persona and the phrasing is UNIQUE to that persona, there's a certain way he's saying things and sounding that you can totally identify in that style. Which is why people keep going "hmm, not Slim Shady" because they're trying to identify it, I think, with that original style and that 'way' of phrasing ideas.

Those two albums are beautiful exercises in character-driven lyricism, they're a way of speaking.

To go back to your original notion... yes, you have a point to a degree in that, Em is so focused on multi's and flows and delivery that the natural, conversational flow and attention to detail or standards of humour - you could say have slipped in directions.

But at the same time I also really like what he did on Recovery, and what he's been doing lately in terms of running this whole misogyny shtick in to the ground. Me personally, I love things that are SO beyond a joke, SO not funny that it's verging on psychotic. And the fact Em has hammered that nail so far in to the wall you can no longer see the nail-head, the people listening like "what the fuck, really? still? again?", I love that. And I wouldn't love it if he wasn't aware of what he was doing, but he clearly is ("SLUT this, SLUT that, learn the words to the song)...

That example I gave from "Cold Wind Blows" is actually a flash of his really funny humour to me. He's analyzing what he does as he does it, characterizing his own predictability, as he's doing it... it's, self-deprecating, and that's very MMLP-days. And I kind of like the fact he's doing it excessively angry lmao because again he knows he's doing that, so it's overkill. Which to me is a sign that he's back on track in terms of truly wanting to create uncompromising thrusts of styles and ideas, in your face, and piss people off back like he used to be, rather than cow-towing etc.

I think he's done enough of that now though. I've enjoyed the OTT slut screaming and intensity for what it is, but I want some original ideas now.

But, yeah, I mean... it's obvious to me he still has that spark of humour in there because I've heard it, it's simply less frequent and less original now, but he definitely still has that darkly comedic, edgy brilliance in there (BET Cypher), I think it's mostly style. I think if he changed his style, his tone etc. people would hear it totally differently. I sort of think he needs to stop being so clever for his own good and trying to speak to listeners and say everything he's doing and just sort, of, focus on concepts and ideas again, and that natural edge will shine through ("Almost Famous").

We've heard you refer to Relapse as indulgent (plus the extra adjectives) about 100 times over. If you wish to mature as a writer, learn to condense your ideas into a formulated, actual argument. Otherwise you're wasting your time.

Obviously Eminem still has a spark of humour, but you have tip-toed around the actual formulation of his 'funny rhymes'. It is is easy to pick out one song from an album and say 'we can see his old-self here', but that is one song. Eminem has not captured his pre-relapse wit to compose a song and appear effortlessly humorous to the extent that you could believe it was an unwritten freestyle.

Perhaps this is to do with the way he writes his current music, or maybe it's because a lot of those ideas stemmed from drug-influence. At the moment he's like a sober rapper straining to appear high with his visualisations.

[StatQuo]

you love Relapse EminemBase but not everyone else will. Just like what you like and let others like what they like for christs sake