The maturity of Marshall on "Stan"

[SliK]

Aight I'm not the best at expressing myself and getting my point across, maybe EminemBase can rework this for me and have y'all believing :heh:

Eminem was the most controversial rapper in the world in 2000 when he released The Marshall Mathers LP. I remember when Stan was released the media went nuts. In Australia, there are movements to ban him from entering the country and polluting our youth (me and my generation). GLAAD and a number of other groups protested his lyrics and so forth, on an album that was completely reactionary and satirical. The stand out of this album to me, and indeed Eminem's catalogue of music is the song "Stan". I think it shows maturity far beyond his years and is artistically and creatively beautiful, as well as being executed so brilliantly.

The parallel between Marshall Mathers and Matthew, which is all but confirmed in Bad Guy ("Bitch I even have your initials!"), adds a very personal touch to a song completely based in fantasy. Eminem had an uncle, Ronnie, who killed himself which Eminem is drawing on to paint a vivid picture of someone's decent to helplessness.

Despite this, the song does have a positive message. Eminem tells Stan "I really think you and your girlfriend need each other" while Stan ignores her over his obsession with Eminem which ultimately kills them both. Eminem tells him this in a song that deals very heavily with loss because he wants Stan to realize he has people who care about him like his girlfriend, and like Matthew, just like Ronnie did. In Bad Guy, Eminem emphasizes this point to those that still don't get it ("Matthew and Stan's just symbolic of you not knowing what you have til it's gone"). The positive message in this song just isn't delivered in a way like it is in "Lose Yourself" or "Sing for the Moment", where he spoon feeds it to you, it's delivered brilliantly in a chilling story of a deranged fan, where you need to find the positive message amongst a series of terrible events. That's exactly how it is in life, nobody spoon feeds you all the answers to life but they are there if you look.

The true genius of this song, I think, is the maturity in the final verse where Eminem is rapping as himself. He displays a maturity unseen by Eminem in his music until this point, and without it, the message would not resonate so strong (from the guy who "JUST DONT GIVE A FUUUUUCK!"). Eminem litters his final verse with his actual opinion (not the outlandish claims we are used to hearing on his albums) like the importance of therapy and resolving problems without violence and the importance of treating mental illnesses like depression ("I think you need some counseling to help your ass from bouncing off the walls when you get down some"), anti-suicide/self-harm ("what's this shit you said about you like to cut your wrist too? I say that shits just clowning dog how fucked up is you?"), gender equality ("Maybe you just need to treat her better") and makes it perfectly clear just how fucked up he knows the things he says actually are ("I seen this one shit on the news a couple weeks ago that made me sick!").

This song is so abstract but it fits absolutely perfectly with the theme of the album, but I think his execution on this is on another level. It's so subtle most people miss it and it's one of the most fundamentally important songs of the album and ultimately his career. One of, if not the greatest hip-hop songs of all time.

No need to discuss, I just felt like writing this down.

[PAINKILLƎR]

Well said man, I concur.

[Snakebeast]

I don't think this needs any reworking at all. Good job bruh

[kkaniff]

Dope read.
I kinda disagree with the "non-spoonfeeding" brilliance of the last verse though, as I have always felt like it was both unneccessary, and a bit of a cop out.
Regardless, you got your point across brilliantly.

[mdemaz]

my nigga

[EminemBase]

Absolutely. He reveals his real thoughts all the time and retarded reactionary idiots always missed every one of the signs and winks to the camera and never heard the actual opinions beneath the smoke and mirrors.

This is one of his most blatant examples of it but he even does it throughout the rest of the album... the entire album is basically pro-good parenting lmao, pro looking after your kids and monitoring their behaviour etc. which is quite ironic considering it's probably the most controversial album ever.

Like Gervais does and has said - people often confuse the subject of the joke with the target. Eminem has long treated subject-matter like a comedian would; challenging his listeners through a smoke screen of humour and sarcasm and stories.

Great post.

[Mr Evil]

Excellent thread. The amount of growth and maturity between SSLP and MMLP has always amazed me. Especially with songs like Stan, Who Knew, The Way I am, Criminal and such..
Most casual fans just circle that album as the controversial one where he tries to piss of as many people as he can but I honestly think there's so much going on than that. There's a restrained maturity here that most people don't usually spot until TES where it is far more blatant.
imo

[Iris2]

The amount of growth and maturity between SSLP and MMLP has always amazed me.

SSLP is his second most mature album after MMLP.

[Excita]

Damn, this thread is straight fire.

[Devil'sAdvocate]

A good post in the Eminem section? it's now the equivalent of seeing bigfoot

[Mr Evil]

The amount of growth and maturity between SSLP and MMLP has always amazed me.

SSLP is his second most mature album after MMLP.

I think TES and and MMLP2 are his most mature

[Notalius]

Well said man, I concur.

[kkaniff]

*insert tirade about niccas always dissing the Eminem section here*

[TheVipBro]

^Every section is shit according to the members here.
Idk if it's mature or not but he had to be on a real high level of concentration when writing this considering he wrote it on tour during drugs and shit at amsterdam.

[Notalius]

the only thing horse is doing on this forum nowadays is cry about how shitty the Em section is .. if you don't like it don't enter it ffs