Basedshady wrote:Uh, I mean i'm probably the least sensitive gay person in the world but you people who have never experienced verbal abuse or really have any words that really strike you to the core cant talk for gay people alright? Like i'm sorry but using degrading language like that in any context is just as shocking/offensive as using the word nigger to offend black people. I could care less if people think it's okay because Eminem has gay friends.
But the language it self doesn't mean anything as far as Eminem's relationship with being a homophobic gay basher or not.
That being said I get it, he did it for controversy and was generally just fucking around, I mean it'd be dumb to doubt that is was just Eminem being himself at the same and pushing the envelope a little. Not like he hadn't done it before for some attention, it was the equivalent of the wife-in-river stuff going on in SSLP.
That being said, you people would be empathy-lacking idiots to not realize why all those gay-rights protesters got so mad at Eminem. Language like this especially in a time where the world was a fair bit less gay-friendly is part of the problem, just because they didn't go through his current discography and watch all his interviews and shit doesn't mean they didn't have a right to be angry about stupid fucking words that degrade people.
What i'm really trying to get at is no, you're right, Eminem is not a homophobe, on the same album he even has a line where he's basically like "Y no gay marriage?" it's just the language he used that upset people and it's pretty clear why, not having a sense of perspective about it is awfully stupid.
However, in the modern day especially I think this is the kind of thing that with time has cheapened MMLP and I've seen a lot of people just kind of react to it like "What the fuck is this garbage?" in recent years due to stuff like this. Eminem being edgy in 2000 makes him look like an insensitive little kid to a first time listener rather than some villian who fought for free speech or whatever the fuck at the time.
Those are just my honestly, pretty neutral in regards to eminem himself thoughts. All you straight white people can keep talking for gay people and how they shouldn't be offended though.
This is an interesting viewpoint and raises bigger questions about art itself - how to understand and interpret art and how it impacts society.
In my view, context is everything. Not just in music, but life in general. The song Criminal, especially has harsh, anti-gay language, but the context for this lines is in the song itself, not to mention MMLP as a whole. To completely ignore that, and label Eminem as a gay-bashing homophobe and organize protests against him is a bit extreme imho. However, here also context is everything. 2000s was a bad time for the gay community with discrimination and hatred at intolerable levels (I only have second-hand info, I wasn't there). So, how do you mobilise this community and its supporters to come out in numbers and raise awareness? Well, you identify a tangible target, and whip up some emotions. The rest follows. And it really is difficult to unequivocally condemn this tactic considering the context.
With respect to Eminem himself, obviously none of us know him personally, so we only have his public interviews, songs, etc. to base our opinion on. So far as I can see, Em has an almost single point agenda -- that is to show people how good he is at his art, to continue pushing boundaries in rap and music. This includes sheer technical prowess in rhyming, clever wordplay and quite frankly the ability to say things in a no-holds-barred way. It seems that he feels/felt singled out for no good reason for his lyrics. His agenda was neither political nor social to begin with. And now he was right in the middle of that agenda. So his reaction is to push back as hard as he can and we know how obsessive he is about these things. The attitudes which were formed at that time haven't particularly softened or changed. And Eminem is in no mood to change it.
So, I specific response to BasedShady's point about feeling degraded when Em uses specific slurs -- imo, there is no right art or wrong art, only art which is or is not to your taste. Using art to push social and political agendas is something people do, both artists and others. In Em's case there is no such agenda from his side (so far as we can see). But others have and will use Em's music (and other things) to further their agenda. We as his fans can/should try to do is explain the context of both his own music and hip-hop as an art form in general and bring attention to his lyrical excellence (if we are inclined to). Em wants a reaction to his music, and wouldn't mind if the reaction is not a negative one.
Ahem...sorry for the long post.
