Jay-Z Decoded

[dead prez]

What's there to discuss?

Jay-Z had the biggest station in NY backing his every move. Ether was not played on Hot 97, it was quietly banned, whereas Takeover was played every second song. That's what I meant in terms of having a huge backing of media channels. It's also hilarious that on the big hot 97 poll, it was Nas who went on to win, because real NY ***** knew what it was about, they didn't need it shoved down their throat, they knew what was the better track.

It was quite a nice comeback after Nastradamus, but really it's overhyped as hell.

I can't believe you're saying Ether was full of kindergarten insults, when all Takeover really was Jay dissing Prodigy about his height, his nickname and the big focus was on how Prodigy was a dancer when he was...........8 years old. Wow that's real grown man b.i. there.

Basically it exposed him as a phoney and a studio gangsta, "Than you dropped shook ones, switched your demeanor", and also states that his album sold more than his in it's first week, while we shouldn't take sales into account for quality that was a pretty embarassing.

Then the Nas diss on Takeover was about Nas' raps were not true (the most general diss - you LIE about what you do etc. etc.) and then whilst we're talking about kindergarten insults, someone should perhaps teach Jay some kindergarten maths considering he couldn't even calculate the Nas classic albums per decade analysis properly.

What they were true, from proving Nas is a studio gangsta, to some false prophet about kicking knowledge while hypocritcally speaking about the same subject Jay z does, and fucking his baby momma.

Nas was a model, do you want the picture?

To criticizing Nas about being a wannabe druglord, and switching it up.

Falling off after illmatic immediately, well IWW was dope.


And obviously the math's wrong, but you get the idea Nas was horribly inconsistant in terms of discography.

Ether on the other hand is a complete analysis of Jay's career and how much of a fake he really is. Everything Jay said about Nas was thrown right back at him. From biting off KRS, Biggie, Jaz etc.

This is one thing he definitely got Jay on.

to begging Jadakiss for forgiveness,

When was this?

to talking about Brooklyn over Queens when Queens' own Russ ran Def Jam and was Jay's boss,

You do know that Jay'z the owner of Nas' label, right?

to getting torn to shreds by Eminem on his supposed best album ever,

First it was an Eminem beat, so of course Eminem's going to flow better on it, as it compliments his rhyme style much more than Jay's.

Second, while yes Eminem's verses were better than Jay's, he wasn't as far behind as people like to say.

Third Oochie Wally...

to selling out completely, to begging Nas for records, to talking about Nas

And Nas didn't sell out? He tried many times to go mainstream, and wishes he sells as much records as Jay does.

in his songs, to getting Nas' numbers when he was in trouble etc.

Did you check the vid where Jay showed Nas' first tech on tour with Large Professer? When Nas was in his illmatic days he was an introverted and shy kid and had a hard time finding gigs for how shy he was, compared to someone who supposedly slung crack in his past.

I could go on for days, there's that much material that just 'ethers' Jay. It's almost embarrassing.

Really?

At the end of the day, there's 5 reasons as to why it's so blatant that Nas destroyed Jay.

1- Ether has since become apart of the Hip Hop dictionary.

And that makes it relevant how?

2 - Jay's going below the belt and bringing Carmen into it. Talking about Pac' and his diss of Biggie's wife, that was COMPLETELY different. Simply because Pac' thought they shot him, it was already personal, not to mention that Jay saw what happened to Pac and Biggie. Here we had a man who clearly lost so he had to make it personal. Beef has rules, and family should never be included.

Saying I'm going to hurt your kids and fucking your baby momma is COMPLETELY different.

3- Hot 97 poll where Nas won, on Jay's own station.

So where going by popularity now, going by that logic Jay won the war as he's the King of Ny now

4 - That radio interview after Ether just came out where Jay's about to cry. Then there's Memphis Bleek saying the day Ether dropped was a sad day for the Roc, not to mention other Roc members saying the same.

Was that the one where his mom made him apologize for Supa Ugly?

5 - Jay saying he lost. What else should there be to discuss? He himself said he lost.

Did you listen to the recent Jay interview where he says that Takeover is better than Ether, and that Prodigy was at one time one of the best rappers in the game?

Let me say something, this didn't happen in Atlanta or Houston or anywhere in the Midwest, or even LA, this happened in the mecca of hip hop, New York. Down there, when it comes to this stuff we have history where we don't give a shit about popularity or sales or appeal when it comes to battle. That's why Jay at the time could sell 5 million, and still lose this. Because the genuine hip hop heads decided who won, and Nas was never ever going to lose this.

But he's still more relevant than Nas now, so i guess he won the war right?

[Emadyville]

Well this went way off topic, well sorta, but interesting to read all the posts

[stillmatic]

Sorry emadyville, if someone wishes to move the posts they should, because I see it's gone off-topic but I still wish to discuss this because Dead Prez does make some good points too.

[dead prez]

It's alright, despite sounding serious I'm actually having fun. On the topic of Decoded, I got to start reading that one of these days.

[stillmatic]

It was quite a nice comeback after Nastradamus, but really it's overhyped as hell.

That's your opinion. Just so mine is a little better understood here, I don't agree that Nastradamous and I am are bad albums at all btw. I just believe that they should have been one album after Nas' disappearance into exile, rather than dropping both in the same year. If a 16-18 track CD was made with a combination of the best tracks from each album, it would have been a very good album and there would be problems.

Basically it exposed him as a phoney and a studio gangsta, "Than you dropped shook ones, switched your demeanor", and also states that his album sold more than his in it's first week, while we shouldn't take sales into account for quality that was a pretty embarassing.

So how many 8 year old gangstas do you know? Just because Prodigy was a dancer when he was 8 years old for his grandma doesn't mean he's a studio gangsta. That's precisely my point, and why Prodigy says what Jay did was a bitch move and convince people he won that beef, rather than proving. Mobb Deep never ever sold well, so I don't see what Jay gets out of stating something that everyone always knew.

What they were true, from proving Nas is a studio gangsta, to some false prophet about kicking knowledge while hypocritcally speaking about the same subject Jay z does, and fucking his baby momma.

Again, how does any of what Jay prove Nas was a studio gangsta? All it did was show that he showed Nas his first gun, that's a good line but nothing more. Who's to know whether Nas shot 25 people in a spree in the upcoming years or whether he stayed at home playing with dolls and then hitting the studio talking about guns....no one. So Jay barely makes a valid point here.

All rappers are hypocrites, BUT only because of the hip hop culture. The most conscious rappers have hypocritical songs, even Mos Def, Talib, Q-Tip, Rakim etc. Just as Nas does. There is simply no comparison between Jay and Nas when it comes to conscious songs, none.

Nas was a model, do you want the picture?

If it's Karl Kani, I've seen it. Again who cares? For what its worth, Nas was not a model, he did modeling. There's a difference. Almost every single rapper out there has done these type of shots, what's the big deal exactly? Even rappers with huge street cred have done these type of things, Tupac did it, Rakim did it, how about that great Big Daddy Kane shot in the nude for gods sake? Thats pushing it, not what Nas did, which was just take photos of him wearing that brand and be done with it and walk away with a cheque.

When was this?

the last line in Ether when Nas raps - "you pop shit apologize nigga, just ask kiss" refers to the time when Jay apologized to Kiss for running his mouth about the Beanie situation.

You do know that Jay'z the owner of Nas' label, right?

Not when they were beefing. That's a different situation. When Jay became Nas' "boss" at Def Jam, they were cool. Jay however when he was beefing with Nas, his boss was from Queens.

Third Oochie Wally...

Do you know why this is never in the same regards as Renegade? Because this was a nothing song. If an artist who's hot now gets beat by say Soulja Boy on a club or radio song, it wouldn't mean much. The reason why Renegade means something is because it was a serious type of song, where both artists have to prepare for combat, as it's obviously competition. Of course you're going to want the artist to have a good verse, it's your song that they're on....but to get squashed like a bug on your own shit, nah. Btw. Oochie Wally was barely a Nas song.

And Nas didn't sell out? He tried many times to go mainstream, and wishes he sells as much records as Jay does.

No way on earth did Nas "sell out" the way Jay-Z did. Sell out is a stupid concept either way, I don't see that much wrong with it. What I see wrong with Jay-Z is that he almost completely flipped his entire style upside down to sell, now that's completely different, and why I don't like it. Nas coming out with a few easy listening and friendlier songs doesn't make him selling out. I think you know this too, there's no comparison here.

And that makes it relevant how?

How is it not? The track became so popular and well known, that "being ethered" was now apart of the hip hop vocab, it represented someone getting destroyed in a beef. What does that tell you?

Saying I'm going to hurt your kids and fucking your baby momma is COMPLETELY different

Family is still family, it's still the same tag. I'm not saying Pac's diss wasn't more vicious, I'm saying that Jay's was a low blow as well, even more so because he should have learned his lessons from the Tupac and Biggie beef, but he was so desperate he didn't care.

Was that the one where his mom made him apologize for Supa Ugly?

No, but thanks for reminding me of that as well. Lol another great Roc moment. It's the one I posted where he's speaking to Angie, and he sounds so shattered.

Did you listen to the recent Jay interview where he says that Takeover is better than Ether, and that Prodigy was at one time one of the best rappers in the game?

Of course, because its 10 years later. I'm not surprised he's changed his mind, but guess what, at that time he said he lost, even after a year or two with Blueprint 2 he admitted it again. Jay always changed his mind, ask him if he thinks Beanie Sigel is the 5th best rapper of all time now, and see what he says. Because back then he said that, its there in writing. He says what fits him at a particular time. At that time though, when it all went down, he admitted defeat. There's no changing that.

[Wreck]

Did he say something about Eminem?

Yeah a bunch of times.

Here's the link to read the book everybody. Your welcome.

http://rapidshare.com/#!download|824tl3 ... .zip|96638

He mentioned a line from Eminem to make a point in one of the chapters, he talked about how when Em was at the peak of his success around TES he still had to wear a bullet vest (Em did). This is when they hooked up to do Moment Of Clarity, for the Black Album. He also mentioned a few times how successful Em was, and measuring himself up to that level of success. He also talked about sales. How when him and 50 were beefing, how Em, G-Unit's first album, and Jay's album all did well sales and reception wise.

Thank you
About sales going good when they were beefing...that kind of says that beef does sell records better lol.

Yeah exactly, good point .

[mdemaz]

Oh Damn wreckless I just noticed you wanted a link....Lol you got it yourself nice..

[Wreck]

Oh Damn wreckless I just noticed you wanted a link....Lol you got it yourself nice..

Now alls I need to find is Em's book Angry Blonde online in PDF and I'll be good .

[dead prez]

That's your opinion. Just so mine is a little better understood here, I don't agree that Nastradamous and I am are bad albums at all btw. I just believe that they should have been one album after Nas' disappearance into exile, rather than dropping both in the same year. If a 16-18 track CD was made with a combination of the best tracks from each album, it would have been a very good album and there would be problems.

I am wasn't horrible, but Nastradamus is on some Encore level shit, probably the worst album between both Jay and Nas, and too have Nas come back with a great track like ether (and album like stillmatic) really shocked everyone that took it for granted that Jay z buried him.

So how many 8 year old gangstas do you know? Just because Prodigy was a dancer when he was 8 years old for his grandma doesn't mean he's a studio gangsta. That's precisely my point, and why Prodigy says what Jay did was a bitch move and convince people he won that beef, rather than proving. Mobb Deep never ever sold well, so I don't see what Jay gets out of stating something that everyone always knew.

And how many boy ballerinas do you know regardless of age? Either way Takeover crushes any Prodigy diss towards him, and I've heard some of his disses towards him, btw. As far as Mobb Deep not selling well pretty sure Hell on Earth sold more than Reasonable Doubt when Jay z first came out.

Again, how does any of what Jay prove Nas was a studio gangsta? All it did was show that he showed Nas his first gun, that's a good line but nothing more. Who's to know whether Nas shot 25 people in a spree in the upcoming years or whether he stayed at home playing with dolls and then hitting the studio talking about guns....no one. So Jay barely makes a valid point here.

It shows that Nas talking about his Tech out the dresser on Represent, when he showed him his first tech. Basically saying that Nas' album illmatic is nothing more than him witnessing shit, more of a sideline watcher while not doing anything.

All rappers are hypocrites, BUT only because of the hip hop culture. The most conscious rappers have hypocritical songs, even Mos Def, Talib, Q-Tip, Rakim etc. Just as Nas does. There is simply no comparison between Jay and Nas when it comes to conscious songs, none.

I know that but you really shouldn't call Jay z out for shit that you're just as gulty as rapping about as he is.

the last line in Ether when Nas raps - "you pop shit apologize *****, just ask kiss" refers to the time when Jay apologized to Kiss for running his mouth about the Beanie situation.

Either way Jay z is a way better rapper than Jada in every sense, and Nas never responded to Beanie Sigel's disses so I guess they're even right?

Not when they were beefing. That's a different situation. When Jay became Nas' "boss" at Def Jam, they were cool. Jay however when he was beefing with Nas, his boss was from Queens.

Still something to think about ,but yeah you got me there.

Do you know why this is never in the same regards as Renegade? Because this was a nothing song. If an artist who's hot now gets beat by say Soulja Boy on a club or radio song, it wouldn't mean much.

What are you talking about that would be embarassing as hell...

The reason why Renegade means something is because it was a serious type of song, where both artists have to prepare for combat, as it's obviously competition. Of course you're going to want the artist to have a good verse, it's your song that they're on....but to get squashed like a bug on your own shit, nah. Btw. Oochie Wally was barely a Nas song.

I've already addressed this, but Jay z wasn't that far behind Eminem as people love to make it out to be, there was a definitely a gap but no he didn't squash Jay z. At least not anymore than Az did to Nas on Life's a Bitch.

No way on earth did Nas "sell out" the way Jay-Z did.

IWW, Nastradamus??

Sell out is a stupid concept either way, I don't see that much wrong with it.

Than why did you mention it in the first place?

What I see wrong with Jay-Z is that he almost completely flipped his entire style upside down to sell, now that's completely different, and why I don't like it. Nas coming out with a few easy listening and friendlier songs doesn't make him selling out. I think you know this too, there's no comparison here.

Jay already admits he dumbs his music down to double his dollars so why does it matter? And Nastradamus was a complete sellout flop failure at trying to gain mainstream exposure no better than Mobb Deep signing to G unit.

How is it not? The track became so popular and well known, that "being ethered" was now apart of the hip hop vocab, it represented someone getting destroyed in a beef. What does that tell you?

That more people like the song, but don't even realize the context of the disses.

Family is still family, it's still the same tag. I'm not saying Pac's diss wasn't more vicious, I'm saying that Jay's was a low blow as well, even more so because he should have learned his lessons from the Tupac and Biggie beef, but he was so desperate he didn't care.

No, Saying I'm going to hurt your kids or family even like Benznio and Ja Rule just makes you look like a creep and an degenerate, saying I'm going to fuck your baby momma (which is true btw) makes the other rapper look like a clown, a bitch, a tool etc.

No, but thanks for reminding me of that as well. Lol another great Roc moment. It's the one I posted where he's speaking to Angie, and he sounds so shattered.

He only apologized out of respect for his mother btw, and I do believe Supa Ugly (ironic title) is another viscious underrated diss track.

Of course, because its 10 years later. I'm not surprised he's changed his mind, but guess what, at that time he said he lost, even after a year or two with Blueprint 2 he admitted it again. Jay always changed his mind, ask him if he thinks Beanie Sigel is the 5th best rapper of all time now, and see what he says. Because back then he said that, its there in writing. He says what fits him at a particular time. At that time though, when it all went down, he admitted defeat. There's no changing that.

So basically you're saying he's a bipolar fraud?