Lil B, genius or gimmick?

[Master Chief]

That's like comparing Copy's "G" punchlines to Wayne's "G" punchline. One's execution surpasses the other...

In this case, Royce being Copywrite.

[classthe_king]

Not, even close

[momentsgolden]

This should be fun. Its 4:30 in the morning, i'm tired as fuck and i got exams coming up. Will read your post, expect a reply soon.

Edit: - This could be my longest post ever, but Base has crossed the line with his assertion that his opinion is fact. No, i'm not saying its not true. Get it straight from the outset. I'm NOT saying there is a God or that there is no God. I'm saying there is enough rationality to RESPECT either position. Something you are blatantly blind to.

Firstly, yes I do understand that people have different value systems. But you can't choose your own value system for reality.

in this Universe which is GOVERNED by the laws of Science and then say it's a separate debate.

This is what we call in religious circles hypocrisy. Are you familiar with the term? You say you cant choose a value system and say its, in absolute terms, TRUE and then go on to ascertain yours as true. WTF?!!!

You can choose to believe, whatever you like. But you can't assert something is 'true' in any real sense as reality is BASED on logic. So you cannot assert there is a god,

.... or that there is none.

It's not a separate debate, "is there a god" is a scientific question. As if there was a god, this Universe would be a very different Universe.

again, you fail. This debate is not whether "is there a God." Its about, in simplified terms, "Is it stupid to believe in God." Lets see if we get there...

And Science and religion certainly fucking DO NOT deserve equal respect. Science progresses mankind and relieves humans of stress, provides us with entertainment, medicine, safety and knowledge. It continues to help us grow, become smarter, more aware, live longer and show us the world we live in - why it functions like it does, and why we are like we are.

Depending on which value system you choose to believe. Do i really have to go into this...? Fuck it, i will. MANY people have had the privilege of going through a multi cultured system of learning simultaneously (admittedly with varying levels of equality in principle) the merits and demerits of Religion, Science and Morality. Point is, YOUR stress is different from mine. Yours is HOW was i here. Mine is WHY am I here. The two CAN be answered by incorporating science's assertions with religious grounding for example
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_C ... _evolution. Science has not, at least up until now, given me a satisfactory reason for my existence. Care to suggest? If you cant, its apparent that because of the difference in needs of people, its NECESSARY to have religion.

Where as religion teaches people to believe something because it's a nice thing to believe and that it cannot and should not be questioned. And to do so is not only a sin and unethical but offensive and damnable. Also, every organized religion is rampant with racism, homophobia, sexism and regardless of whether you say or not is not relevant, as many people (especially in baron lands COUGH Middle East) do and it continues to breed ignorant, violent people.

Step by step here. Step by step. Most, which most? Of the world's largest religious organisations, i am well versed in Christianity (with the catholic church accounting for 1 billion of the world's population and being used as a "standard for Christianity), Buddism, and Islam. NONE, base NONE of these advocate racism.Of Islam, only 20% live in the Arab world and if you, by any chance, had read the news of Arab uprisings, its got NOTHING to do with MAINLINE OFFICIAL religion. Its about extremists (MINORITY groups) and dictators. Something science cant absolve itself off.

Put simply, if we go into "I don't believe those bits" its frustrating and pointless. Let us look at official stances and proceed. (Being an arrogant and disillusioned person i suggest you start with THE BIBLE, THE QURAN or ancient Buddist teachings and have them interpreted)

So as you can clearly see, one of those things - Science aka logic and reason lead to the opportunity of progression, organization, structure, stability and solution. And the other - religion aka ill-logic leads to circular thinking, anger, violence, destruction, and absolutely putrid behaviour. Irrational thinking produces irrational behaviour. Racism, sexism and homophobia are all irrational, so is it any shock that many organized religions of the ancient peoples aka uninformed, illogical peoples of history advocates them so whole-heatedly?

No, religion serves a DIFFERENT purpose than Science. In the same way that Education and Health are complementary, Religion (or spirituality ) excel in their disciplines.

How you may ask? Morals dummy. Any rational thinking man can tell you Anarchy, disdain for Human life, lack of purpose, despair, ambition and "basic" codes of ethics are as essential to human life and existence as a television is. All those are non-scientific. They are intuitive. Intuitive meaning, NATURALLY... honed and coded by Religion. In the same way things happen in the Universe NATURALLY honed, coded and used by science.

They are in no way comparable. Science is pure, and true. And unbiased, and only aims to get to the truth and only cares about reality that is - things that can be proven with evidence conditioned by the laws of science. It's impersonal and helpful.

Have you done a research in physics EVER?! Go fuck yourself. At one point the "atom" was the "smallest possible element" and elements were "earth, wind, fire, water and air" Now, its a joke. Oh, "that was ages ago" is the usual retort. how about the molecule. The protons and neutrons, the God Particule. Matter being real. Discovery of anti-matter? Science is not "pure and true" It attempts to be, and being religious i'll be cocky enough to say it will never be

Well, joking about anything is fine. It depends where the joke comes from.

Exactly, this whole debate is because you joked in a TASTELESS manner. Its not about the subject, its about the context and the lack of evidence of hidden meaning.

It's ridiculous to say you can't joke about something, it depends what the joke is. Nothing should be free from questioning or humour, certainly not fucking religion. Science isn't and scientists don't get offended or up in a public huff if people question or joke about what they do - they get on with it. So why the fuck should you be any different. Get a fucking back-bone. But irrespective of that, it's fine to joke about people being gay also. And I'm sure most sensible, normal gay people wouldn't mind.

As for comparing joking about gays to joking about religion - this just proves how brainwashed you have been into thinking religion is the utmost virtue of mankind. People cannot control what gender of person they are attracted to. It's genetic and uncontrollable.

Because i have no time (or space) to go into this one, lets just say do not use your last statement as "fact" because its a raging debate- nature or nurture. Search it up on Google. There is not enough evidence to ASCERTAIN one or the other. Deal with it.

Where as, religion is not genetic or a neccesary truth. It's something that is up for debate and which causes serious damage to Earth and humanity and has done ever since it's existed. So if you're seriously suggesting we cannot even question or talk about something which has such effects - you can go fuck yourself. As, gay people don't harm you or anybody else do they.

Have you recently visited Serious Debate? This thread- viewtopic.php?f=28&t=112543 had people healthily DEBATING religion. What i dislike is a superiority complex you currently portray.

Because they logically know that they are gay and that's that, where as your belief is governed by an irrational, wishful desire and circular thinking pattern - so anything that interrupts that angers you as you wish for it to be left still.

No, you got this twisted. I have a problem with people attacking my right and sensibility in being Christian. Attacking my philosophy in a rational manner is a semi obsession.

If you're not big enough to digest a joke or handle criticism of your belief, tough fucking luck. That's your problem not mine. I have to deal with people 'offending' my beliefs everyday too. Plenty of idiots say things which I see as ridiculous or wrong, but I don't tell them they can't say it or it's offensive. I respond back, or if it's a joke - joke back.

Like now, glad we're on the same page.

So stop being such a fucking baby and treat your precious belief like everybody has to treat the rest of their beliefs. If you want it to be treated / respected so equally, then it shouldn't get special fucking treatment. As Science doesn't get that treatment, so that's hardly equal is it.

When ever have i demanded special treatment? I've been on Tr for a year and have seen people wantonly propagate things i am against. Eminem's "God" lines on Relapse and Recovery have caused quite some laughter. "Horrocore" has been promoted and at times portrayed as a higher art than emotion. Homosexuality has been accepted as morally just. Premarital sex is a goal, an achievement, the norm. I could go on and on... yet never have i taken the high ground. I accept the difference or respectfully present my position. But the Bible joke was a low point. Its as insulting as it gets and yes, i have a right to be angry.

Life is offensive, get used to it. And if a silly little joke about me wiping my ass with The Bible gets to you that much - you're in for a shock. As there's a lot worse than that to be said and that will be said to you in life. So you better get used to it and toughen up. Or you'll be pretty easily crushed.

Toughening up is DEALING with the offense not taking the offense itself. i pretty much can receive criticsm, humbly accept defeat yet still maintain my personal beliefs. But to deprive myself of emotion is unthinkable.

No no no. It is NOT a personal attack. Once again, how dare you think you can compare believing in a fictional dictator is equivalent to being gay. You cheeky fuck.

Cheecky Dictator? Nice try. The image of a God in a white mask is long but gone. Get outta childhood and join the real world. The Sun does not have a smile- its a smoking hot flame that will consume the world.

You think it's overly offensive as you're used to people pandering to your belief and protecting it like a little baby chicklet, never daring to joke or question it for fear of you throwing your toys out of the pram, or for fear of damaging your childish wish.So because of that, and because of society's history of doing that, if anybody even makes the LIGHTEST joke or comment on religion, it feels hyper-offensive to people. Even people who aren't religious. As they've been conditioned to think it's deserving of high respect no matter what.

U MAD? I know i am, join the club.

Me refusing to give an irrational belief that causes death and destruction and perverts our politics, standards and self-respect is NNNNNNNNNOOOOOTTTTTTHHHIINNNG like me or somebody being predujist against somebody who is gay, or black - ie. having an irrational hate against somebody for something they cannot control.

Spruce up your knowledge. Science started and propagated some of the world's worst atrocities. Hitler used it to exterminate Jews. Like i said, Religion makes no claim to be pure or universally just. It acknowledges the humanity and sin of man and apologises for its misuse over the years. Its time YOU begin to look in the mirror.

I don't have an 'irrational hate' of religious people. I have a rational conclusion that god is not logically possible and I have a rational conclusion that organized religion is a dangerous, despicable thing, due to its content, history, effects and teaching.

Absolutely, totally different. So get that through your fucking skull.

I have mine. Get it through yours.

Imma sleep now. #exhausted.

Edit again-

As for Science and 'spirituality' going hand in hand.... if by that you mean Science / logic and moral values then I agree. Morality is rational and most morals can be explained by evolutionary-social traits and has been advanced through philosophy.

It might be branded a science but its more a social science. It analysis human BELIEF systems (aka religion) and comes up with conclusions. #Religion complimented by science.

[dR3]

You motherfuckers.