Yelawolf vs. Royce

[Devil'sAdvocate]

SSLP is not a classic album. Death Is Certain is. Deal with it.

SSLP not a classic? WHAT?!!!

It's one of the most genius albums ever made.

Royce could never come close to the genius of that album. Royce could never be so hilarious while at the same time being serious, so subtly. Royce could never rhyme as well as Eminem did on that album. Royce could never be as witty or as ironic. Royce couldn't come to close to Eminem's flawless flows. It's laughable to suggest Royce could make an album that flows in the way SSLP does from start to finish or think of concepts as amazing as the ones on there.

That whole last paragraph doesn't really matter or mean much because Royce's purpose and intent with the album, Death Is Certain wasn't to be witty, ironic, or to come up with amazing concepts. That album is Royce in the stage of his life where it was dark and where he was depressed and angry. You surely don't expect him to make a song like As The Word Turns in there, do you? Because that would ruin the flow and theme of the album. Even so, Royce's flows on that album are superior to Eminem's on SSLP. Royce's flow has always been better than Em's... songs like Hip Hop and Throwback showcase that on DIC.

Like I said, SSLP is a fantastic, borderline classic but it just doesn't have enough great and timeless songs for me to consider that it is a classic. Rock Bottom is one, I know.

Em's Flow (in his prime) always been better than royce's,royce can not even create a witty dark humor funny type track,that is strictly Em's department,Em on SSLP was in his darkest phase too,the album was not in any way whiny,it was very creative and amusing and technical,Eminem effortlessness on that record in itself elevates it to being a classic miles better than DIC(which i consider a classic no doubt its a crazy crazy album),no discrediting royce here because DIC is in my top 15 albums of all time,royce is and always will be one of my favs,a true beast but he never made an album better than Em's first three,arguably nobody did.

Eminem's flow in his prime is truly better than royce's,im talkin about songs like JDGAF,Criminal,SFTM,Rock Bottom,even underground

but overall Royce is better than Em in the flow department,he is a flow rapper,while Em is a wordsmith and a lyricist,overall he aint even close to Em (in his prime) if you ask me,royce never became a beat,Em became a beat countless times.

COE is a great song,My Fault is very creative and is extremely funny.

the concept and theme of guilty conscience and the flawless witty execution makes it a classic,As The World Turns imagery and story telling and rhyming makes it a classic.

Role Model tongue and cheek,quotables,flow and rhyming make it a classic,Em base said it tbh,Royce is a great rapper,Eminem is more than a rapper,hes a genius.

[Master Chief]

None of those flows touch Em's best flows. And he's only got bits of stretch in his tones - Em can bounce between intensities in his vocal tone even when spitting at speed and his structures can be incredibly complex and ten fold more impressive than Royce's.

That's called delivery? Tones? Yeah, that's delivery, not flow. Em spitting at speed is horrible. See, Loud Noises and Won't Back Down for example. That is absolutely horrendous.

Almost any flow on The Eminem Show > any of Royce's.

"Criminal" flow > those flows. Royce can't be as tight or consistent. It's not just about speeding through flows, he can't structure in such tight consistency as Em can. And no, he's never been close to Em's artistry. Not at all. Not even in the same league. Royce is a rapper, Eminem was a genius. Royce is not a genius. At all.

Criminal is a simple flow, are you kidding me? Dinner Time shits over Criminal and every TES flow. Royce is actually more consistent than Eminem in flow. What have you listened to by Royce? Seriously, what the fuck. Royce is more than a rapper, I'm sorry to break it to you. Papoose is just a rapper.

A lot of the things Royce says I could come up with myself, back in the day his punchlines were fantastic but there's more to rap, or being an artist or a lyricist than punchlines and 'hip-hop talk'. Not saying that's all he can do but he can't do much more

.
I could come up with better punchline than Eminem does today. This could ALL apply to Eminem. Royce's punchlines are way better than they used to be as well. Royce barely said any punchlines back in the day. It was just crazy imagery, like Em. So, DIC is punchlines a Hip-Hop talk. Street Hop with songs like Part Of Me, Murder, Shake This, Gun Harmonizing, and On The Run are punchlines and Hip Hop talk? LOL. He leaves all that for his mixtapes.

To say Royce has created anything that even touches the sides of Em's golden trio is laughable. Royce, 'close' to the guy on The Marshall Mathers LP?

Yes. DIC is close to MMLP. Very close actually...

[EminemBase]

^ We're clearly not going to convince each other and you saying Death is Certain is 'very close' to The Marshall Mathers LP has sealed the deal for me.

Relapse flows also slaughter, bury and visit the funeral of Royce's flows.

I have nothing else to give you, nothing left to contribute, but before I go / my last gift to you Master Chief I give you = !

[Devil'sAdvocate]

^ We're clearly not going to convince each other and you saying Death is Certain is 'very close' to The Marshall Mathers LP has sealed the deal for me.

I have nothing else to give you, nothing left to contribute, but before I go / my last gift to you Master Chief I give you... !

[Master Chief]

Yes I have heard Royce's material. I am a fan of Royce. Don't assume I don't listen to him or I dislike him just because I don't agree with you.

Nothing on Street Hop is even mildly comparable or as compelling as Em's best flows. And none of the material is anywhere near as compelling. It's very basic hip-hop, very basic subject-matter and aside from his execution, standard stuff that I'd expect any half decent rapper to spit. He's not in a league of his own. Eminem absolutely was. A world of his own even.

Gee, congrats. You listened to Street Hop and DIC, I assume. You haven't heard any of the Bar Exams where his amazing flow always shines through. Royce Is Like, is a song Eminem will NEVER, EVER bet in terms of flow, never has and never will.

You don't think "Role Model" or "Guilty Conscience" are great hip-hop songs?...

I have no respect left for your taste.

And don't say "as you can see" as if it's a fact they're not now because 'you said so' lmao.

Eminem was a groundbreaking artist, an intensive wordsmith and a genius. Royce is just 'a decent rapper' of which there are many. He's not groundbreaking, not mind-blowingly original, in fact... hardly original at all, plenty of rappers spit the same shit he does.

To say Royce was or is as good as or close to the level of artistry Eminem was in his prime is just absolutely laughable, and you're crazy. And I think Royce would laugh and put you in a straight jacket too.

They're not timeless. I'm using great, as a stronger word. They're real good songs, but not great.

Gee, I am offended. An incredibly knowledgable Hip Hop head has just shot my pride down. I guess, I'll have to acknowledge that no one comes close to Eminem in his prime which is well... bullshit.

Should I say IMO every single post I make? No fucking duh, it's my opinion.

IS DEATH IS CERTAIN THE WORK OF DECENT RAPPER THAT HAS ZERO ARTISTRY WHEN COMPARED TO THE ALL MIGHTY EMINEM? Answer me that.

[Master Chief]

^ We're clearly not going to convince each other and you saying Death is Certain is 'very close' to The Marshall Mathers LP has sealed the deal for me.

Relapse flows also slaughter, bury and visit the funeral of Royce's flows.

I have nothing else to give you, nothing left to contribute, but before I go / my last gift to you Master Chief I give you = !

So, you're implaying that it's "crazy" to say that one classic album is close to another classic album? Remember this isn't me overrating DIC. It has garnered critical acclaim...

Royce's Bar Exam 1 flows slaughter Relapse's flows...

Yeah, everything deserves a facepalm when you say another artist is almost as good as Eminem.

[Devil'sAdvocate]

i feel bad tbh after typing that post,i listened to everything royce ever put out and i really feel that i am discrediting him.

Royce,I Love You

[EminemBase]

^ We're clearly not going to convince each other and you saying Death is Certain is 'very close' to The Marshall Mathers LP has sealed the deal for me.

Relapse flows also slaughter, bury and visit the funeral of Royce's flows.

I have nothing else to give you, nothing left to contribute, but before I go / my last gift to you Master Chief I give you = !

So, you're implaying that it's "crazy" to say that one classic album is close to another classic album? Remember this isn't me overrating DIC. It has garnered critical acclaim...

Royce's Bar Exam 1 flows slaughter Relapse's flows...

Yeah, everything deserves a facepalm when you say another artist is almost as good as Eminem.

No I'm not implying it's crazy to say one classic album is close to another. I'm saying it's crazy to say Death Is Certain is close to The Marshall Mathers LP.

The Marshall Mathers LP was more than an album. It was a piece of reactionary art that was perfectly timed, that capitalized on over-reactionary, confused do-gooders, promoted free-speech in an incredible manner and housed some of the best hip-hop ever recorded.

Royce is not in the same magnitude as the guy who did that. Neither is his material.

I've also heard the Bar Exam mixtapes, stop making assumptions just because I don't agree.

And no, not when you say 'another' artist is almost as good as Eminem. When you say ROYCE is almost as good as Eminem. Stop breaking out of the specifics and using the 'stan argument' as a cop-out because I find your claim that Royce is as good an ARTist or close ridiculous. He's just a decent rapper. Not a groundbreaking artist. At all.

[Master Chief]

Em's Flow (in his prime) always been better than royce's,royce can not even create a witty dark humor funny type track,that is strictly Em's department,Em on SSLP was in his darkest phase too,the album was not in any way whiny,it was very creative and amusing and technical,Eminem effortlessness on that record in itself elevates it to being a classic miles better than DIC(which i consider a classic no doubt its a crazy crazy album),no discrediting royce here because DIC is in my top 15 albums of all time,royce is and always will be one of my favs,a true beast but he never made an album better than Em's first three,arguably nobody did.

No, we've already gone over this. Eminem's flow in his prime is not touching Royce's flow. You're just repeating things here. SSLP is no way better than DIC. I will keep on standing by that statement.

Eminem's flow in his prime is truly better than royce's,im talkin about songs like JDGAF,Criminal,SFTM,Rock Bottom,even underground

Yes, Eminem's "great" songs are better than Royce's. I never have said otherwise. I consider Eminem in his prime better than Royce anyway.

but overall Royce is better than Em in the flow department,he is a flow rapper,while Em is a wordsmith and a lyricist,overall he aint even close to Em (in his prime) if you ask me,royce never became a beat,Em became a beat countless times.

That's because Royce's flow isn't the same as Em's.

COE is a great song,My Fault is very creative and is extremely funny.

COE is definitely not a great song. My Fault is a good song but I would say it's great.

the concept and theme of guilty conscience and the flawless witty execution makes it a classic,As The World Turns imagery and story telling and rhyming makes it a classic.

Role Model tongue and cheek,quotables,flow and rhyming make it a classic,Em base said it tbh,Royce is a great rapper,Eminem is more than a rapper,hes a genius.

Eminem has so many songs with "flawless and witty execution" but that's not enough for a song to be great. As The World Turns is probably the closest to being a great song, on second though it probably is.

Again, Eminem has several songs with quotable and flowing and rhyming. That doesn't make it a classic.

[Master Chief]

No I'm not implying it's crazy to say one classic album is close to another. I'm saying it's crazy to say Death Is Certain is close to The Marshall Mathers LP.

Death is Certain is a classic album so what are you saying...

The Marshall Mathers LP was more than an album. It was a piece of reactionary art that was perfectly timed, that capitalized on over-reactionary, confused do-gooders, promoted free-speech in an incredible manner and housed some of the best hip-hop ever recorded.

Royce is not in the same magnitude as the guy who did that. Neither is his material.

I don't give a shit about the impact MMLP had which was a million times bigger than DIC. I'm judging the music not the effect that the album caused.

Uhhh, yes he is.

I've also heard the Bar Exam mixtapes, stop making assumptions just because I don't agree.

Then let me keep making assumptions because it's impossible to claim the things you claim and have listened to the Bar Exams. You probably just skimmed through them or only listened but ONCE. While you've listened to Eminem's albums 100+ times. So tell me, which one are you gonna be familiar with? You most likely forgot the flows he had.

And no, not when you say 'another' artist is almost as good as Eminem. When you say ROYCE is almost as good as Eminem. Stop breaking out of the specifics and using the 'stan argument' as a cop-out because I find your claim that Royce is as good an ARTist or close ridiculous. He's just a decent rapper. Not a groundbreaking artist. At all.

You listed Royce in your Top 10. I don't understand. It's obvious that you're overrating Eminem, in that case.

[Hiphopdane]

Death is certain has become as overrated as that RAW album by Hopsin. I don't know if it is because of the new EP that all the Royce da 5'9" fans come out of their hiding but Death Is Certain is one of the most boring albums I can think of from an artist that a lot of people consider 'great'.

There's no intelligent concepts, no interesting direction and absolutely nothing memorable on the album. It is one of those many albums that just happen to be made whereas truly brilliant emcees such as Black Thought and Common actually make albums because they have a story to tell.

[Devil'sAdvocate]

Death is certain has become as overrated as that RAW album by Hopsin. I don't know if it is because of the new EP that all the Royce da 5'9" fans come out of their hiding but Death Is Certain is one of the most boring albums I can think of from an artist that a lot of people consider 'great'.

There's no intelligent concepts, no interesting direction and absolutely nothing memorable on the album. It is one of those many albums that just happen to be made whereas truly brilliant emcees such as Black Thought and Common actually make albums because they have a story to tell.

What are you saying,DIC is underrated,saying that the album is boring is just

[Hiphopdane]

Death is certain has become as overrated as that RAW album by Hopsin. I don't know if it is because of the new EP that all the Royce da 5'9" fans come out of their hiding but Death Is Certain is one of the most boring albums I can think of from an artist that a lot of people consider 'great'.

There's no intelligent concepts, no interesting direction and absolutely nothing memorable on the album. It is one of those many albums that just happen to be made whereas truly brilliant emcees such as Black Thought and Common actually make albums because they have a story to tell.

What are you saying,DIC is underrated,saying that the album is boring is just

<3

[Manly Moose]

There are plenty of rappers/artists that are as good as Em, Royce aint one of them. Being real doesnt make your album classic, DIC is a good album but if your to actually judge it it aint a classic (Though your definition of classic might be different from mine, for a lot of people they use the word classic for any album they like).

DIC does have good reviews, but thats because its a good album, no one thinks its near MMLP/SSLP level (Except the diehard royce dickriders). Saying its near those levels means its near Ready To Die, or Chronic, or Eazy Duz it, or DoggyStyle. It simply isnt, all these albums offered something new and amazing to the table. DIC has got solid songs, nothing more.

[EminemBase]

Death is Certain is a classic album so what are you saying...

'A' classic album doesn't make them both the same.

Albums can still be better than other albums even if they are both 'classic'. The Marshall Mathers LP is a masterpiece. Royce did not create a masterpiece.

I don't give a shit about the impact MMLP had which was a million times bigger than DIC. I'm judging the music not the effect that the album caused.

It's not about the impact or effect of it. It's the fact the album was SUPPOSED to do that. So you can't have a conversation about The Marshall Mathers LP without discussing the impact as the impact makes the album what it is.

As the material is a reaction, to cause a further reaction. It's a conscious album, he assumed the world was listening and because of that, they were - he was talking to the world through the album. It's one of the most intelligent rap albums ever.

Royce is not and will never be a satirical genius. Social commentary through art is of a higher plane, Royce doesn't think that big. And can't write like that.

Eminem's lyricism, ideas and execution on The Marshall Mathers LP are on another planet compared to Royce's. Not even close.

Uhhh, yes he is.

No, he's not. Saying Royce is as good an artist or of that mind is like saying Em is as tall as Shaquille O'Neal. It's simply not true.

Then let me keep making assumptions because it's impossible to claim the things you claim and have listened to the Bar Exams. You probably just skimmed through them or only listened but ONCE. While you've listened to Eminem's albums 100+ times. So tell me, which one are you gonna be familiar with? You most likely forgot the flows he had.

First of all - get this straight mister, I DO NOT 'skim' through music, or rap. I am not that kind of listener. I'm an extremely obsessive, analytical person. I wouldn't fucking listen to Royce if I felt the urge to 'skim' his fucking music. Again, stop making excuses because you can't handle the fact I won't agree with you or accept what you're saying.

- Yes I have heard and listen to Royce's material.
- No I do not 'skim' through it and am not forgetting things.
- No I am not overlooking aspects or going out of my way because it's Eminem.
- No I did not 'forget' Royce's flows.

As for listening to Eminem's albums 100s of times, I listen to ANYBODY's album who I really like 100s of times. I only pay attention to people who make me feel like doing that. Eminem is not an exception so put that lame argument to rest, it's tired and useless. I consider Eminem to be the greatest but that does not mean I won't criticize him, or that I blindly defend or overrate him.

I'm too logical a person to ever do that. I can't lie to that degree, especially not to myself.

I am familiar with Royce. I am familiar with his flows. They are not as good.

Also, as for your's and everybody's obsession with separating 'flow' and 'delivery', I don't separate them as much. You can't really have a good flow to me unless you also have good delivery. Delivery is PART of your flow, if you can ride a beat in a nice rhythm but you deliver your words lazily and slurred (COUGH 50), then you sound shit anyway. So it's not good.

Royce's flow and flows are very good, and his delivery is decent. But Eminem made an entire art out of flow in itself, he took it to other levels. Not just with on-point rhythm, but with structure and voice meddling, so many elements which made him sound... on another level. Listening to Royce isn't as close to compelling as listening to Eminem.

I analyze and judge anybody's music in the same way. I hold no bias and let artists prove themselves, or not, to me. Royce is not a groundbreaking artist. Eminem was.

You listed Royce in your Top 10. I don't understand. It's obvious that you're overrating Eminem, in that case.

Just because I do not think Royce is close to Eminem as an artist doesn't mean I think he's bad. Have you not been reading what I've been saying?

My Top 10 changes anyway but if I did list Royce, it was probably in the lower ranks and just because 'he's in the list' doesn't mean I consider him in the same league. There are not many ARTists of rap like Eminem. If I list Royce as 9 or something, there's a big gap between 1 and 9 isn't there. I am not overrating Eminem and no that is not obvious. I can justify everything I say about Eminem and point out why I think it, at as much length as you like.

People who overrate can rarely justify what they think. Because by definition, they're giving something more credit than they can account for. I NEVER do that with Eminem. His first three albums deserve all the praise they get and just because you think Royce was close and I don't doesn't mean I'm overrating Eminem, get your head out of your ass.

Also, people are in my Top 10 for different reasons. Not all the same reasons. As people are different of course. So me listing Eminem and Royce in my Top 10 Rappers doesn't mean I think Eminem and Royce are comparable or close as artists.

Xzibit is also in my Top 10, but not for the same reasons Eminem is. He's a different rapper, a different artist. I'd say Ali and Tyson are the two greatest heavyweights of all-time for example. But still think Tyson would knock Ali the fuck out.

I also would put many directors in my favourite of all-time list but don't think they touch the sides of Tarantino. Even though they'd be 'in the same list'. That's why you have an ORDER to your list, and justification for each person in the list.