Classic Hip-Hop vs. Underground Hip-Hop

[classthe_king]

I even feel like the content and overall sound now is better. No 90's album is as creative as Drawn With An Eraser of When Life Gives You Lemons

[dead prez]

I wasn't trying to say that it was better, I meant that he has a very different preference than what DA would like (lol). I'm talking about how I would rather listen to a coherent album with it's own signature sound that it defined or pioneered, rather than one laced with multies and internals but no general theme to it. I'm not pigeonholing either group, just giving extreme examples, cause I know there are people that like the latter.

And obviously you could get the best of both worlds that was just me giving extreme sides on either spectrum and if you had to choose.

I don't think you could really compare Content though, cause that's subjective, but if you want some high quality concept albums than A Prince Among Thieves and Dr Octagoncologyst are have one of the most unique premises in rap. Though they execute it perfectly as well.

Sound, I'll give you technology is better now but that doesn't equal better or more unique sound.

[stillmatic]

Does anyone else not get the hype behind Raw Footage? Everyone says it's better than Ice Cube's old albums but for me it was pretty forgettable.

It's no where near the quality of his old albums.

Ice Cube was a menace when his albums came out. He was the most feared musician in the world during the early 90'.

Raw Footage is just another good album from a great artist and rightfully got the buzz it deserved.

His old albums were like a tank bulldozing through on going traffic, the traffic in his case being 'White' America.

[stillmatic]

Does anyone else not get the hype behind Raw Footage? Everyone says it's better than Ice Cube's old albums but for me it was pretty forgettable.

I think it's better than most of his old albums but still forgetable...he has such poor lyricism there isn't really anything that draws me back to it. The only songs from him I still like are Go To Church and Why We Thugs. Those songs >>>>>>>

Such poor lyricism is completely wrong.

Plus those songs you mentioned are not from Raw Footage. They're from his album prior to that - Laugh now, cry later.

[classthe_king]

Does anyone else not get the hype behind Raw Footage? Everyone says it's better than Ice Cube's old albums but for me it was pretty forgettable.

I think it's better than most of his old albums but still forgetable...he has such poor lyricism there isn't really anything that draws me back to it. The only songs from him I still like are Go To Church and Why We Thugs. Those songs >>>>>>>

Such poor lyricism is completely wrong.

Plus those songs you mentioned are not from Raw Footage. They're from his album prior to that - Laugh now, cry later.

I know that. That's why I said the only songs I like from him, not the only songs I like from that album.

And no, the lyricism was poor

[Satire]

This is going to be good.

[stillmatic]

I know that. That's why I said the only songs I like from him, not the only songs I like from that album.

And no, the lyricism was poor

Are you serious? Then that makes your point even more silly if you think one of Ice Cube's only good songs is "Go to Church".

That's like saying the only good Eminem songs are "So bad" or "Cocaine". It's a solid track from an artist long after his prime who has an endless list of better and great songs from before.

Ultimately that just establishes that Ice Cube is no where near your level of taste, because for you to think one of his decent at best songs is his only good song determines that you don't know much about his music and that it simply doesn't connect with you.

[Devil'sAdvocate]

@prez

you know something bro,we cant really explain how and why we like the classic hip hop more,cuz we will be hit with the poor lyricism bullshit,once somebody said bad production (which is a sin) people just like underground too much.

[Satire]

Technicalities are obviously improved now, that's not a question. As time moves on, we discover new skills & traits to phonetically improve the music, but there's nothing wrong with preferring the sound and atmosphere of Classic Hip-Hop. I hate to be the preachy faggot but what music we "should listen to" is something that boils down to preference even though it's easy to make a debate as to what is technically better, which is why everyone needs to refrain from making objective statements unless it's possible to objectively back it up in what aspect, such as "_____ has better lyricism than ever, IE: (Supporting evidence)". What pisses me off the most is when I try to recommend underground hip hop artists to an accomplished dickweed and they say "Nah I don't want that Youtube comment-esque generic hipster bullshit, give me some real hip hop" FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUU-.

All of that being said now, even though I agree with diction that the 90's seemed "hungrier", I prefer the indie rapper feel (Slug, P.O.S., Brother Ali, Blu) over any other style of rap that I've heard so far so I guess I'll choose underground.

[classthe_king]

I know that. That's why I said the only songs I like from him, not the only songs I like from that album.

And no, the lyricism was poor

Are you serious? Then that makes your point even more silly if you think one of Ice Cube's only good songs is "Go to Church".

That's like saying the only good Eminem songs are "So bad" or "Cocaine". It's a solid track from an artist long after his prime who has an endless list of better and great songs from before.

Ultimately that just establishes that Ice Cube is no where near your level of taste, because for you to think one of his decent at best songs is his only good song determines that you don't know much about his music and that it simply doesn't connect with you.

Well duhh...I don't like any of Ice Cubes music, I'll just put those songs on a cd cause they sound hard as fuck and are fun to bump in a car.

Cream, I'm going to crush you when I get back from baseball

[BILI]

I cant believe that classic is winning,its not even close,what are you people listening to?

[ThomasJ]

I cant believe that classic is winning,its not even close,what are you people listening to?

It's a matter of taste.

[classthe_king]

Cream, this really just proves how little you know about underground rap, and rap in general.

Beats : Classic beats of the original Hip Hop century from the 80s and 90s is that I prefer more, I find all these loud and orgin-using beats annoying and I would basically prefer the basic drums, bass, synth and maybe horns. Not saying underground beats aren't dope, i'm basically speaking about a certain style of beats, Hopsin's beats are one of the best of all time, and He's a Mental Giant had a GOAT beat, all i'm talking about is that "Darker sounding" beats that're made with loud piano voices and shit, and not to forget all these dumb drumkits from mainstream producers such as DJ Khaled's beats

So basically you just like beats that are more simple? That's all you were getting at. I would understand if you grew up in the streets listening to this but you live where? The middle east? And you just started listening to old school rap a couple months ago? Just listen to Sadistik or Jedi Mind Tricks. Emancipator and Stoupe are much more advanced beat wise than 90's producers.

Flows : aight, Old School flows are better in almost every aspect, rappers such as Kool G Rap, Rakim, Snoop Doggy Dogg and Warren G have their own unique styles and flows to run with, smooth, not forced and ain't too fast or too slow, they're the makers of flow, Kool G Rap has the greatest flow i've ever heard, Underground rappers mostly have the common same flow, which is (imo) why people think they're terribly similar

Lmao @ old school flows are better in every aspect. Old school Hip-Hop had some of the most basic flows of all time. THEY are the ones that all sound the same. You can go with fast flows like Royce or Tonedeff that are much better now or more aggresive flows like DZK or Copywrite. Or even Spoonfull if you want to go with a unique flow. He flows ten times better than Warren G or Kool G Rap lmao.

Rhymes : Hell no, even if we said Eminem, the quantity of completely insane rhymes are unstoppable, rhyming Carmen Elektra's cuter/Arm and electricute her, and the line "Fire at the private eye hide to pry of my business" is sick, And if you mean the "Quality" of rhymes (Which I don't think you do, cause you included content, punchlines and basically shit that defines quality) that no as well, the best rhymer in the underground section of rap is Vinnie Paz (imo) but that doesn't stand to rappers like Canibus, Lupe Fiasco and Pharoahe Monch

Ddi you really just use Eminem? Eminem isn't old school Hip-Hop you fucking dipshit. He's on neither of our sides. If anything he would be on my side if you wanted to change it to old school vs. new school, but I don't need that. And I meant quality and quanitity. Sadistik's quality of rhymes destroys anyone from back then, same with Possessed, Diabolic then you could go with Tech N9ne, DZK, Copywrite for people that have so much more quantity. Vinnie Paz is no where near the best rhymer lmao. And really? Canibus is underground, plus he doesn't even have that good of rhymes and Lupe is not old school, classic rap, plus he is deffinitely NOT known for his rhyming. Stop bringing up rappers who shouldn't be involved.

Punchlines : That might be correct, only because in the 80s and 90s the products and media-ways were much less, basically rappers in the 20s have a lot of ideas, when you're in the 80s you can't make a punchline of an iPhone, for (wack) example, but still Lloyd Banks, Royce Da 5'9", Wu-Tang Clan(ers) and Big L have much more better punchlines, imo (Bold are the ones i'm MORE familiar with, others I only know a bit of they're punchlines and genuinely shocked me)

What the fuck are you talking about. Lloyd Banks is not old school, Royce Da 5'9 is fucking underground for fucks sake. ANd no way Wu Tang and Big L have better punches. That Beevis and Butthead punch is Big L's best punch and that would be an average punch now. Possessed, Copywrite, Vakill, Chino XL, ect, destroy them when it comes to punches..it's not even close.

Content : Old, realistic punchlines (political, racism, conscious, bragging, mafisoo, G-Funk's chilling content and storytelling) > almost any content in the Underground, they may have more creativity (such as concepts like Sexy Cyber) but that's conceptual writing, maybe related to content but not really, and not to forget all these "conceptual" writers are generally influenced by old concepts made from old schoolers, such as Common and Snoop Dogg, while other Classic hip hoppers have some great concepts as well, to be specific Joell Ortiz

Really? Political acts now, Lowkey for example, destroy any political rap from then (Public Enemy). It has so much more advanced thoughts and lyrics all aroung. Conscious rap is a joke, Prince Ea makes Common look like a child, our braggin is 100x better, mafioso is just ghetto rap, that's not good content, same with G-Funk. And lol @ saying Snoop Dogg is a concept rapper. Yeah Gin & Juice was fucking genius. Also, Joell Ortiz is not a classic Hip-Hopper lolololol, all of Slaughterhouse is on my side. Just listen to Atmosphere, listen to Spoonfull, listen to Bekay, listen to Copywrites new album. That's good content. The fact that you brought up Sexy Cyber shows much underground rap you don't listen to.

Creativity : Slick Rick's fictional story-telling literally surpasses any creativity founded in Hip Hop, it's not easy to come up with such vivid stories with every detail in them that basically makes sense, as well, You may mean creativity as in "Punchlines" but that wouldn't make sense cause you already made a section for that

No he doesn't lmfao. I'm talking about the Waitress (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjFfFjdB8AM) I'm talking about Spoonfull (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOnuZveU8VE) They blow Slick Rick out of the water....he was good for his time but if he put out the exact same music now he wouldn't get praised for shit.

-telling : This only proves that you're being biased to underground cause the storytelling of the underground CANNOT compete with Old School, Slick Rick/Common/Kool G Rap/Nas and hell even Will Smith lmao

Again...no. The only point you have their is Nas but again, Atmosphere, Spoonfull, Bekay, Immortal Technique, ect, have much better and more creative stories.

[classthe_king]

Do you realize that I was talking on Classic Hip Hop, not Old School Hip Hop ?

And what is Classic Hip-Hop? The Golden Age, 88-96, roughly.

[classthe_king]

Oh, so you're the general of rap that basically knows every rap song or artist even went out there, But I assume you got caught deep into being an underground-head you don't know shit about anything else.

Well you assume wrong, you saw my top ten from a 2 years ago, I've listened to all types of rap.

Exactly, I prefer simpler beats to loud and noisy ones, and I've been listening to Hip Hop since I was about 3, doesn't matter which country I live in as long as I'm in a rap-knowing society, I grew up on West Coast-based music, Dre, Snoop, Warren G, Nate, I know almost all of the West Coast rappers and that's probably the reason why my favorite rapper is Warren G, cause I grew up on G-Funk music, you should study your opponent's background before you make judgments.

And those beats weren't loud and noisy?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSh1dLlBaHw

I know beats are completely opinion and there isn't really arguing over which beats are better, I just think something like this is much better musically

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgAR1Dgpg_U

What's so funny ? lmao @ basic flows .. how can you call Kool G Rap. Warren G and Snoop Dogg "Basic flows" ? no one ever came up with a flow like them until today, their style is unique, And if you wanna talk about fast flows they ain't got shit on Twista, who once held the title of the fastest rapper in the world, aggressive flows ? N.W.A's members especially Ice Cube, and you got Kool G Rap as well, just keep putting a fake "lmao" after each false sentence you put in order to put yourself in a position of a winner lmao

Way to not respond to over half of my points. Not responding to a point=conceding.

Snoop Dogg isn't a basic flow, he's extremely slow but Warren G and Kool G Rap, yes. Extremely basic.
Just compare
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoezCLhQFaE
to
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ii6XgkzhWYA

and tell me which one is more basic.

And no, Ice Cube does not have an aggressive flow, this is an aggressive flow
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLbUoa1b1TA

And the key word for twista is "once held." Mac Lethal demolished him.

How can't Lupe not being known for his rhyming denies the fact that he IS a good rhymer ?

I didn't say he wasn't a good rhymer, but there are much, much better rhymers than him.

Talib Kweli's multi's, Mos Def, KRS-One and especially Kool G Rap's rhyming shits all over these folks, he's been classified as the greatest rhymer of all-time, by a lot of rappers, members, myself and a big amount of pioneers .. damn there ain't no denying that Kool G Rap is the best rhymer, not at all, listen to Fast Life or I'm Blowin' Up In The World for simple examples

Talib Kweli and Mos Def are basically on my side. And are you fucking high? KRS-One has horrible rhyming. Kool G Rap has average rhyming.

Fast lane lyrics:

Champagne wishes of caviar dreams a penis didn't cream
With sales of fish scales from triple beams I gleam
Livin the life of rowdy packin fifty cali's
Rockin lizard Bally's while we do our drug deal in a dark alley
Up in casinos just me and my dino primo
Pushin beam-o's then parlay in Reno with two fly latinos
Nas, he runs the whole staff, we count mad for seen bad
We've seen a half a milli dashin out there on the Queens half
Three major players gettin papers by the layers
And those that portray us on the block get rocked like Domateus
Fakers get used to shootin targets, soon as the dark hits
Front on the drug market, bodies get rolled up in a carpet
Sadistik lyrics:

My appetites for sitting in cityscapes in black and white
Crackin' light Smittys I'm shitty faced to crash at night
The passive type, who's a lost pathetic dreamer
Terrified to be a victim with a walking dead demeanor
I'm coughing emphysema, caught in coffins in between
A cautious innocence while listening to Andre Nikatina
If you could trace my steps a couple minutes
Huh, if I get crossed you fall like London bridges
I do this for pot heads playin' sick as a teen
And insomniacs who still will raise a fist for the dream
For Street Fighter 2 and David Lynchian scenes
For Tupac Shakur and Rage Against the Machine

It doesn't even compare. Just concede to rhyming, it's not even close

Again we thank DA for the great list of his, Wu-Tang's punchlines aren't better than Royce, actually Royce is probably the king of punchlines right now, but then again let's not forget the Technology, figures, life and media differences that's affecting the 20s most.

It's not really technology it's just people being more creative with wordplay but alright. I won punchlines.

You think I was talking about Public Enemy ? I hate them shits lmfao
I was talking about Grandmaster Flash, 2Pac, Dead Prez, KRS-One, Mos Def, Common and especially Pharoahe Monch,

So? Lowkey, Prince Ea, Diabolic, ect shit on them...

and lmfao @ Prince Ea shitting on Common, man that's fantasy, almost similar to all these Jet-Li-type Kung Fu movies,

"Most niggas know I'm the best, it's obvious
I'm the best, yes, it's just common sense
No disrespect to mos def, or common sense
But Prince Ea's mind goes beyond that consious shit"

Prince Ea is like Common on steroids.

Biggie's bragging >> whatever shit ya'll got,

Erm no.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9z3WZt0sD2s

"Told her she was fucking amazing, but wasn't givin her the compliment"
"She said damn he's rude, Copywrite so full of himself I said yeah, you can be too"

That's bragging

and Snoop Dogg isn't a conceptual rapper, some of his songs are coming out of geniusity and that can't be counted as a conceptual writer, not at all, "It Ain't No Fun (If The Homies Can't Have None) for an example, had a concept that was never done before, not saying it's better than shit now but it proves that Snoop has some concepts

So? It's really easy to do concepts no one has done before when rap has been around for like 5 years lmfao

and mafisoo rap is WAAY better than nerd rap such as Prince Ea, did you ever lived in danger outside your safe life inside your parents place that's mixed with peace and love ?

Nice Ad Hominem dumb ass. And yeah, because all of underground is nerd rap?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNITJsOrHr0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BsBpzg6-Pc

Those are both much more hardcore than fucking Mafioso rap.

You obviously couldn't know shit about it, cause it has some realism, Kool G Rap had a ghetto life and he's one of the realest rappers out there and have 1000x more interesting content than pure punchlines and shit

I don't know what kind of fallacy that is but underground rap is so much more than just punchlines and shit. This again shows your paucity of knowledge when it comes to underground rap.

Should I even reply to that ?

So you concede on creativity as well. It's 2-0

Again...no. The only point you have their is Nas but again, Atmosphere, Spoonfull, Bekay, Immortal Technique, ect, have much better and more creative stories.

LOL @ Nas being the only one
Pharoahe Monch blows Nas out of a swamp, distance between PM and Nas is the type of distance that can't be surpassed, not in a million years, Big Pun as well

Another post you said absolutely nothing on. I get story telling as well 3-0.

Class, the only black rapper you have on your Top 10 is Kid Cudi .. this conversation is useless, anyways.

1. Kid Cudi is not in my top 10
2. Prince Ea and Hopsin and Chino XL are black
3. You fail again