Yelawolf vs. Royce

[EminemBase]

Well, most people have a problem where they know something but have no idea how to say it. Judging your posts, you dont seem to have that problem (even if you think you do). Your very thorough in your thoughts, and judging by your average post length, you have an incredible attention span. (Well, at least when your hooked into something.)

Well yes, a lot of people do have problems or hesitation in phrasing their opinions or points I find but the only reason I'm fairly good at it is because I've always stressed it and rather than just accept things for the way they are, always challenge things. Just to get to the truth.

So, you get better at the things you stress upon.

I've always been obsessed with truth and integrity, even before I knew I was obsessed with those things. As in, even as a young teen in high school I'd refuse to take lessons seriously and argue with careers advisers or teachers about self-sufficiency and 'why can't I be a millionaire?' and challenging their limited views on the world and achievement.

But, that's probably related to arrogance and ego lmao. I can admit I would probably come across to a lot of people as arrogant but truthfully, I admit my flaws and don't see myself as anything special other than my passion and potential. So I don't really feel that's arrogant as arrogant people rarely admit their flaws, or are open about them.

And ironically, I just implied I was arrogant but then found a way to get out of it and imply I'm not, then ended by saying 'arrogant people rarely admit their flaws' so maybe I am arrogant. But I just pointed out a flaw in my own analysis so I can't be!... but now I'm not admitting it again or maybe I'm just being silly. Probably a little bit of everything.

I think even back then maybe it's related more-so to bipolar as... a huge, unmistakable part of bipolar is grandiosity. Even when not manic, I've yet to find a bipolar person, publicly known or otherwise who can sort of... accept normality. And not pick at it. Which is why i think if you are intelligent AND bipolar, it can lead to serious greatness.

As grandiosity can be dangerous, but also very inspiring, and helpful. Helpful in the sense it almost sets you free and allows you to disregard facade and the bullshit constructions of society and people's limited world and self views completely.

I was always naturally good at English too but that's nothing to take credit for. Neither is intelligence as like you say, it's natural. Nobody should really feel... 'proud' for being intelligent as they didn't truly accomplish it and nobody should ever feel ashamed if they're not so intelligent or of average intelligence as you're dealt the cards you're dealt.

You can feel proud with whatever you do with whatever you have got I suppose. But I think intelligence and almost all traits are so much more genetic than people realize.

Well, EVERYTHING is genetic, as you are a genetic construction. The mind gives you an illusion that you're more than that with consciousness but, I mean, things outside of your conscious control. And the more you truly study that, the more you realize how much less you have a say in. And I also think people confuse knowledge with intelligence.

Which is why I disregarded schools so much, as they're the biggest culprits and they take the art out of learning.

Learning should be highly enjoyable and adventurous, you can take your mind to incredibly satisfying places and it's infinite. Where as school makes learning feel torturous and slow, limited and confined. And that's due to society and the way schools are practically set up to be boot camps to line up a sheep of new innocent children, to learn everything a certain way, get their values dictated to them and step up to the employment line for a 9-5 job and start paying the government. Or go onto to college / university to get charged lump sums to learn information. Either way, it's conformity. Creativity is decreased, individualism is dispirited. The whole affair is drab, lifeless and robotic.

Also, I don't have a good attention span, well, when I get 'hooked' into something like you say. I'm just a very obsessive, addictive person. An extremely addictive person and I do things to death but generally speaking I struggle to complete a single task start to finish and I hop sporadically from thought to thought, subject to subject, idea to idea and always end up 100 miles from where I started, but totally indulged in something new. Or confused and depressed, I don't fucking know.

I'm just a long-winded, confused fuck lmao. Who goes on and on.

Writing is something I could see you doing. My suggestion would be to start small and let the idea take you places, you need to bury yourself before you even start.

(P.S. - The "natural ability" refered to intellegence, its silly since I don't know you in you real life and don't know how you function but you seem like the type of person that could accomplish big things. If I was rich I would give you money to see what you could do.)

Typing that made me feel weird.

(Lmao @ 'typing that made me feel weird')

I have some very interesting book ideas. But my thoughts and the subject-matter is too daunting to tackle, not because I don't know what to say or what I want to say or write about but because it's a mammoth study or expression and the idea of figuring out where to start is seriously off-putting.

And because of my obsessive thinking I'm a perfectionist so am never satisfied or, very rarely but then I always look back in disgust and annoyance lmao and always am trying to improve and perfect every aspect of everything. Every thought, every opinion, I think challenging yourself all the time is very healthy too. And makes you smarter and more capable of expression.

So, take any view you have that you think is unbreakable and delve deeply into the oppositions arguments. And don't read or listen to them with folded arms but act as if you're trying to disprove yourself, and focus and embrace the opposing arguments and points with as much gusto as you'd express your own.

And by doing that, you'll either end up on the other side or with a much much stronger understanding of a) the other side and b) why you still believe what you believe. You'll be able to justify it to the nth degree and feel more comfortable and confident in your belief.

What the fuck am I babbling about lmao, felt like a cunting self-help prick writing that last bit. Like a tutorial on how to strengthen your opinions. Fuck it.

Fucking off course anyway, like I was saying... so yeah because of that, even once I settle on the book idea, the amount of ways you could tackle the idea are... daunting and then the amount of ways you could tackle each aspect within the idea, it's just fucking endless. And when manic, it can be very exciting and I feel like a genius, and am very egotistical and self-indulged but I get absolutely nowhere.

I'm on the edge man lmao. Fucking never know where I stand even with myself. Am I about to start writing a fantastic book or am I about to go and jump off a bridge. I really could go either way at any given moment. Hmmm, ah fuck off. Fucking brain. I am brain. I R Baboon.

[Willy]

Well, most people have a problem where they know something but have no idea how to say it. Judging your posts, you dont seem to have that problem (even if you think you do). Your very thorough in your thoughts, and judging by your average post length, you have an incredible attention span. (Well, at least when your hooked into something.)

Well yes, a lot of people do have problems or hesitation in phrasing their opinions or points I find but the only reason I'm fairly good at it is because I've always stressed it and rather than just accept things for the way they are, always challenge things. Just to get to the truth.

So, you get better at the things you stress upon.

I've always been obsessed with truth and integrity, even before I knew I was obsessed with those things. As in, even as a young teen in high school I'd refuse to take lessons seriously and argue with careers advisers or teachers about self-sufficiency and 'why can't I be a millionaire?' and challenging their limited views on the world and achievement.

But, that's probably related to arrogance and ego lmao. I can admit I would probably come across to a lot of people as arrogant but truthfully, I admit my flaws and don't see myself as anything special other than my passion and potential. So I don't really feel that's arrogant as arrogant people rarely admit their flaws, or are open about them.

And ironically, I just implied I was arrogant but then found a way to get out of it and imply I'm not, then ended by saying 'arrogant people rarely admit their flaws' so maybe I am arrogant. But I just pointed out a flaw in my own analysis so I can't be!... but now I'm not admitting it again or maybe I'm just being silly. Probably a little bit of everything.

I think even back then maybe it's related more-so to bipolar as... a huge, unmistakable part of bipolar is grandiosity. Even when not manic, I've yet to find a bipolar person, publicly known or otherwise who can sort of... accept normality. And not pick at it. Which is why i think if you are intelligent AND bipolar, it can lead to serious greatness.

As grandiosity can be dangerous, but also very inspiring, and helpful. Helpful in the sense it almost sets you free and allows you to disregard facade and the bullshit constructions of society and people's limited world and self views completely.

I was always naturally good at English too but that's nothing to take credit for. Neither is intelligence as like you say, it's natural. Nobody should really feel... 'proud' for being intelligent as they didn't truly accomplish it and nobody should ever feel ashamed if they're not so intelligent or of average intelligence as you're dealt the cards you're dealt.

You can feel proud with whatever you do with whatever you have got I suppose. But I think intelligence and almost all traits are so much more genetic than people realize.

Well, EVERYTHING is genetic, as you are a genetic construction. The mind gives you an illusion that you're more than that with consciousness but, I mean, things outside of your conscious control. And the more you truly study that, the more you realize how much less you have a say in. And I also think people confuse knowledge with intelligence.

Which is why I disregarded schools so much, as they're the biggest culprits and they take the art out of learning.

Learning should be highly enjoyable and adventurous, you can take your mind to incredibly satisfying places and it's infinite. Where as school makes learning feel torturous and slow, limited and confined. And that's due to society and the way schools are practically set up to be boot camps to line up a sheep of new innocent children, to learn everything a certain way, get their values dictated to them and step up to the employment line for a 9-5 job and start paying the government. Or go onto to college / university to get charged lump sums to learn information. Either way, it's conformity. Creativity is decreased, individualism is dispirited. The whole affair is drab, lifeless and robotic.

Also, I don't have a good attention span, well, when I get 'hooked' into something like you say. I'm just a very obsessive, addictive person. An extremely addictive person and I do things to death but generally speaking I struggle to complete a single task start to finish and I hop sporadically from thought to thought, subject to subject, idea to idea and always end up 100 miles from where I started, but totally indulged in something new. Or confused and depressed, I don't fucking know.

I'm just a long-winded, confused fuck lmao. Who goes on and on.

Writing is something I could see you doing. My suggestion would be to start small and let the idea take you places, you need to bury yourself before you even start.

(P.S. - The "natural ability" refered to intellegence, its silly since I don't know you in you real life and don't know how you function but you seem like the type of person that could accomplish big things. If I was rich I would give you money to see what you could do.)

Typing that made me feel weird.

(Lmao @ 'typing that made me feel weird')

I have some very interesting book ideas. But my thoughts and the subject-matter is too daunting to tackle, not because I don't know what to say or what I want to say or write about but because it's a mammoth study or expression and the idea of figuring out where to start is seriously off-putting.

And because of my obsessive thinking I'm a perfectionist so am never satisfied or, very rarely but then I always look back in disgust and annoyance lmao and always am trying to improve and perfect every aspect of everything. Every thought, every opinion, I think challenging yourself all the time is very healthy too. And makes you smarter and more capable of expression.

So, take any view you have that you think is unbreakable and delve deeply into the oppositions arguments. And don't read or listen to them with folded arms but act as if you're trying to disprove yourself, and focus and embrace the opposing arguments and points with as much gusto as you'd express your own.

And by doing that, you'll either end up on the other side or with a much much stronger understanding of a) the other side and b) why you still believe what you believe. You'll be able to justify it to the nth degree and feel more comfortable and confident in your belief.

What the fuck am I babbling about lmao, felt like a cunting self-help prick writing that last bit. Like a tutorial on how to strengthen your opinions. Fuck it.

Fucking off course anyway, like I was saying... so yeah because of that, even once I settle on the book idea, the amount of ways you could tackle the idea are... daunting and then the amount of ways you could tackle each aspect within the idea, it's just fucking endless. And when manic, it can be very exciting and I feel like a genius, and am very egotistical and self-indulged but I get absolutely nowhere.

I'm on the edge man lmao. Fucking never know where I stand even with myself. Am I about to start writing a fantastic book or am I about to go and jump off a bridge. I really could go either way at any given moment. Hmmm, ah fuck off. Fucking brain. I am brain. I R Baboon.

I am Weasel.

[EminemBase]

Well, most people have a problem where they know something but have no idea how to say it. Judging your posts, you dont seem to have that problem (even if you think you do). Your very thorough in your thoughts, and judging by your average post length, you have an incredible attention span. (Well, at least when your hooked into something.)

Well yes, a lot of people do have problems or hesitation in phrasing their opinions or points I find but the only reason I'm fairly good at it is because I've always stressed it and rather than just accept things for the way they are, always challenge things. Just to get to the truth.

So, you get better at the things you stress upon.

I've always been obsessed with truth and integrity, even before I knew I was obsessed with those things. As in, even as a young teen in high school I'd refuse to take lessons seriously and argue with careers advisers or teachers about self-sufficiency and 'why can't I be a millionaire?' and challenging their limited views on the world and achievement.

But, that's probably related to arrogance and ego lmao. I can admit I would probably come across to a lot of people as arrogant but truthfully, I admit my flaws and don't see myself as anything special other than my passion and potential. So I don't really feel that's arrogant as arrogant people rarely admit their flaws, or are open about them.

And ironically, I just implied I was arrogant but then found a way to get out of it and imply I'm not, then ended by saying 'arrogant people rarely admit their flaws' so maybe I am arrogant. But I just pointed out a flaw in my own analysis so I can't be!... but now I'm not admitting it again or maybe I'm just being silly. Probably a little bit of everything.

I think even back then maybe it's related more-so to bipolar as... a huge, unmistakable part of bipolar is grandiosity. Even when not manic, I've yet to find a bipolar person, publicly known or otherwise who can sort of... accept normality. And not pick at it. Which is why i think if you are intelligent AND bipolar, it can lead to serious greatness.

As grandiosity can be dangerous, but also very inspiring, and helpful. Helpful in the sense it almost sets you free and allows you to disregard facade and the bullshit constructions of society and people's limited world and self views completely.

I was always naturally good at English too but that's nothing to take credit for. Neither is intelligence as like you say, it's natural. Nobody should really feel... 'proud' for being intelligent as they didn't truly accomplish it and nobody should ever feel ashamed if they're not so intelligent or of average intelligence as you're dealt the cards you're dealt.

You can feel proud with whatever you do with whatever you have got I suppose. But I think intelligence and almost all traits are so much more genetic than people realize.

Well, EVERYTHING is genetic, as you are a genetic construction. The mind gives you an illusion that you're more than that with consciousness but, I mean, things outside of your conscious control. And the more you truly study that, the more you realize how much less you have a say in. And I also think people confuse knowledge with intelligence.

Which is why I disregarded schools so much, as they're the biggest culprits and they take the art out of learning.

Learning should be highly enjoyable and adventurous, you can take your mind to incredibly satisfying places and it's infinite. Where as school makes learning feel torturous and slow, limited and confined. And that's due to society and the way schools are practically set up to be boot camps to line up a sheep of new innocent children, to learn everything a certain way, get their values dictated to them and step up to the employment line for a 9-5 job and start paying the government. Or go onto to college / university to get charged lump sums to learn information. Either way, it's conformity. Creativity is decreased, individualism is dispirited. The whole affair is drab, lifeless and robotic.

Also, I don't have a good attention span, well, when I get 'hooked' into something like you say. I'm just a very obsessive, addictive person. An extremely addictive person and I do things to death but generally speaking I struggle to complete a single task start to finish and I hop sporadically from thought to thought, subject to subject, idea to idea and always end up 100 miles from where I started, but totally indulged in something new. Or confused and depressed, I don't fucking know.

I'm just a long-winded, confused fuck lmao. Who goes on and on.

Writing is something I could see you doing. My suggestion would be to start small and let the idea take you places, you need to bury yourself before you even start.

(P.S. - The "natural ability" refered to intellegence, its silly since I don't know you in you real life and don't know how you function but you seem like the type of person that could accomplish big things. If I was rich I would give you money to see what you could do.)

Typing that made me feel weird.

(Lmao @ 'typing that made me feel weird')

I have some very interesting book ideas. But my thoughts and the subject-matter is too daunting to tackle, not because I don't know what to say or what I want to say or write about but because it's a mammoth study or expression and the idea of figuring out where to start is seriously off-putting.

And because of my obsessive thinking I'm a perfectionist so am never satisfied or, very rarely but then I always look back in disgust and annoyance lmao and always am trying to improve and perfect every aspect of everything. Every thought, every opinion, I think challenging yourself all the time is very healthy too. And makes you smarter and more capable of expression.

So, take any view you have that you think is unbreakable and delve deeply into the oppositions arguments. And don't read or listen to them with folded arms but act as if you're trying to disprove yourself, and focus and embrace the opposing arguments and points with as much gusto as you'd express your own.

And by doing that, you'll either end up on the other side or with a much much stronger understanding of a) the other side and b) why you still believe what you believe. You'll be able to justify it to the nth degree and feel more comfortable and confident in your belief.

What the fuck am I babbling about lmao, felt like a cunting self-help prick writing that last bit. Like a tutorial on how to strengthen your opinions. Fuck it.

Fucking off course anyway, like I was saying... so yeah because of that, even once I settle on the book idea, the amount of ways you could tackle the idea are... daunting and then the amount of ways you could tackle each aspect within the idea, it's just fucking endless. And when manic, it can be very exciting and I feel like a genius, and am very egotistical and self-indulged but I get absolutely nowhere.

I'm on the edge man lmao. Fucking never know where I stand even with myself. Am I about to start writing a fantastic book or am I about to go and jump off a bridge. I really could go either way at any given moment. Hmmm, ah fuck off. Fucking brain. I am brain. I R Baboon.

I am Weasel.

[stillmatic]

I can't believe EmBase thinks Tyson would knock Ali the fuck out.

One is great, the other is invincible.

If Ali who was in his 30's and past his prime (due to the ban) beat George Foreman (who's a very similar fighter to Tyson) in his prime then there's not that great of a chance at all of Tyson beating Ali.

Not even Cus D'Amato would say Tyson could beat Ali, let alone "knock him the fuck out".

[EminemBase]

I can't believe EmBase thinks Tyson would knock Ali the fuck out.

One is great, the other is invincible.

If Ali who was in his 30's and past his prime (due to the ban) beat George Foreman (who's a very similar fighter to Tyson) in his prime then there's not that great of a chance at all of Tyson beating Ali.

Not even Cus D'Amato would say Tyson could beat Ali, let alone "knock him the fuck out".

Well for one, nobody is invincible.

Ali was the greatest showman in boxing but not the greatest boxer. He's the 2Pac of boxing. He's ONE of the greatest, no doubt. But it's because he had such charisma and showmanship on top of that,and was so overbearing and self-proclaiming that added to his legend.

Even Ali himself said Tyson would knock him out. And he thought Tyson was the best. Even Ali could recognize Tyson was other-worldly. And that's not to be taken lightly as, as you know, Ali is not one to admit defeat easily. He liked to proclaim his greatness.

Mike Tyson, in his prime was thee greatest, most skilled, and most incredible heavyweight boxer BAR NONE. Abso-lutely untouchable and his most underrated aspect was his defense. People have this misconception that he was a brute or a nut, well, he is a nut but in terms of his fighting (in his prime) he was a MACHINE, tight and accurate, fast as lighting and powerful as a sledgehammer.

No other fighter has combined speed, power, accuracy, defense and offence the way he did. Ali, Frazier, Foreman - all the other greats had their strong points and specialties. But they also had their weakness' - Tyson had almost no flaws.

Foreman is not like Tyson at all. The only trait they share is the fact they both had huge punches and were KO artists. But Foreman was slow, often remaining stationary in his pummeling of opponents where as Tyson was like a Rottweiler, absolutely viscous and as fast as a light-weight. His lighting combinations were SO quick and accurate it was unreal.

Foreman still threw sloppy punches. Where as, in every single fight of Tyson's career, I never saw him throw a single sloppy punch. He'd miss people, but every single punch looked perfect, was powerful and on form. It's like he was built for it, he was perfection.

Foreman was nowhere near as skilled as Tyson. He threw punches in bunches but they were not as planned or formatted. Tyson was an absolute machine. It was only his personal life and clowns around him that became his undoing. Had Cus stayed alive and kept him straight, he would of 100% remained undefeated.

Tyson would move his head constantly so he never got hit. Ali still got hit. Tyson only started to get hit and losing when he fired Rooney and stopped his old technique(s). Then he became a headhunter. But when he fought at his best, nobody could touch him - literally. He would move forward on them, dodging every single jab they threw and then come in close and demolish them.

That's exactly what he would of done to Ali. And all it would of taken is one punch. And if that failed, he would of demolished Ali's body close-in. Tyson was the perfect kind of fighter to beat Ali. Foreman wasn't. Ali was quick and moved a lot, where as Foreman was slow and liked to back people up and pound them in one spot. Tyson on the other hand was incredibly fit, and shorter than most heavyweights, so he'd come UNDER jabs and hook directly to the temple.

I think he definitely would of knocked Ali out. Unless Ali managed to run away and avoid every punch for the whole fight which is possible but Tyson could also go the distance and probably would of won on points from all the scoring to the body as Ali was trying to avoid getting knocked out. No way in hell could Ali go toe-to-toe with Tyson. He was an incredibly fast JABBER and all round puncher but he had nothing on Tyson's combination, where almost every punch was like a breeze block.

PS. Cus actually said Tyson could be thee greatest, of all-time.

Tyson vs. Ali would be a style mis-match. With Foreman, Ali could avoid him and let Foreman tire himself out, and rely on him constantly missing and running out of steam. With Tyson, there's no way in hell he could take that risk or hold him off as long as Tyson constantly came at opponents with force, speed and constantly dodging. It would of been a matter of time.

Would of been similar to the Larry Holmes fight. And yes I know Holmes was past it by the time Tyson fought him, but still - Holmes had NEVER been knocked out prior to Tyson. And Tyson KO'd him completely I think in round... 4. Because Holmes could only hold him off so long with his jab and Tyson is too fast to be ignored. He simply over-powered him and came underneath jabs.

Tyson had the power of a Foreman but the speed of a lightweight, and he kept his arms close and his head moving. So you couldn't hit him or predict where he was gonna punch. Tyson would of chased Ali around the ring, occasionally pummeling him, then Ali would of tried to go toe-to-toe on occasion and Tyson would of come under his long arms and hooked him.

[stillmatic]

Let me just say that you're preaching to the converted when you talk about Tyson's strengths and qualities, I have nothing but the most genuine admiration for him and think he's one of the greatest sportsmen of all time (top 10 for me). My admiration of him is so big that I can say I've been to many of the places he grew up and trained in Brooklyn, just so I could see with my own eyes his life.

As for your post, let me just say I'm going to respond to aspects of it I disagree with the most (and there's not much). So don't think I'm ignoring certain parts of your post.

Quite simply, first and foremost, you speak that it would take one punch for Ali to be knocked out, now I realize this relates more to you praising Tyson's punching power and intimidating persona than picking on Ali's chin, but regardless, Ali had an unbeliveable chin. Ali took endless shots from the hall of fame hard hitters like Foreman (hell, Foreman didn't even knock Ali down), Joe Frazier, Norton and Archie Moore and he was still standing, so this notion that one punch and it would lights out for Ali, no way. Seeing as Ali NEVER EVER dropped for a full count and fought hitters like the ones above who were just powerful, completely disagree here. Ali's chin is as legendary as Tyson's punching power is.

This is your main argument, that Ali would have to avoid Tyson's punching for the entire fight to be able to stand a chance. I completely disagree, because Ali can handle hits from anyone, and he wouldn't have to do anything that we didn't already see in his career to win. Everything that Tyson can throw at him, he's been there, yes perhaps not from someone who possess attributes that usually encompass two or three fighters abilities, but nonetheless, Ali has seen it all.

Also, Mike Tyson had that crazy intimidation factor which made fighters go into the fight not wanting to lose, rather than winning, and thus even before the fight, they had lost. Sonny Liston's intimidating persona in and out of the ring was just as big as Tyson's when Ali fought him, and that hardly fazed Ali either. So when it comes to intimidation, Ali could handle that too.

From here on, I'd love to talk about heart, intelligence, stamina, style, consistency and a lot of other characteristics, but this simply can't be done because of Cus' death and Tyson's abandonment of Rooney. You know what though, although you and I know about the history of Mike Tyson and we both realize that a lot of it was generally bad luck and wrong influences on him, we must also put Tyson at blame somewhat too, because at the end of the day, he was a grown man who had control over his own actions too. Also as much of a cheap shot this maybe, this is another advantage to Ali, because he had control over his life and didn't allow for himself to stray out of bounds. Quite simply though, we were robbed of seeing both in their prime.

[EminemBase]

Quite simply, first and foremost, you speak that it would take one punch for Ali to be knocked out, now I realize this relates more to you praising Tyson's punching power and intimidating persona than picking on Ali's chin, but regardless, Ali had an unbeliveable chin. Ali took endless shots from the hall of fame hard hitters like Foreman (hell, Foreman didn't even knock Ali down), Joe Frazier, Norton and Archie Moore and he was still standing, so this notion that one punch and it would lights out for Ali, no way. Seeing as Ali NEVER EVER dropped for a full count and fought hitters like the ones above who were just powerful, completely disagree here. Ali's chin is as legendary as Tyson's punching power is.

Although Tyson's power was immense, it was more so to do with his timing and accuracy. The reason Foreman didn't get Ali down is because he couldn't even hit him. The shots he did land were to Ali's body and Ali's body in that fight was well-trained so they were in-effective.

In terms of hooks, Foreman's hook was much less-effective than Tyson's due to his form. Tyson's perfect punching form and accuracy is what made them so effective. He put his all into every punch and the hook was just, the perfect formation of power. Where as Foreman, was a lot more sloppy and he was a huge guy and had natural power from that alone.

Tyson on the other hand, used his legs to come up from a crouched position and hook round so you were getting the power from his incredibly huge thighs, right the way up through his torso and smack bang on your fucking skull. Tyson was a different breed of boxer, I believe even to Fraizer and other greats. Although Fraizer was a very similar fighter.

But, due simply to Tyson's timing and form and the way he punched, his very unique way of using his legs as extra-power... almost nobody could take a full on Tyson punch. Now, of course it was a tragedy that Tyson, an absolute knockout machine happened to of been in one of the worst periods of the heavyweight division ever and there weren't that many great opponents around but even so, people think he fought tomato cans because he made them LOOK like tomato cans. It's not that he was always fighting weak fighters, but just that he'd knock them out instantly so it looked that way.

Ali did have a great chin but he was not inhuman and practically nobody who faced prime Tyson (85-90) was able to take more than one, or usually not even one to the chin. And it's not about one shot, as - as soon as Tyson caught somebody, he'd capitalize on it and let loose with a stinging bombardment of punches in the same area. He was robotic and magical.

So, it's for this reason I believe Ali would eventually get knocked out. Because Tyson would only have to catch him once, which even Foreman did - and Foreman is a much slower, sloppier fighter and nowhere near Tyson's skill-level. So if Foreman could do it, Tyson could and if Tyson did it, in the fight... game over. Nobody could withstand prime Tyson's slew of sledgehammers to the brain.

Not even just the brain, he'd go like a machine gun from he torso to the head. And I know you know all of this but I'm just trying to stress my argument. Ali would of had to have worn Tyson down to stand any chance and that would require a) going toe-to-toe and coming out on top - which, Ali simply wouldn't as he didn't have the same strength or inside combination power, or b) letting Tyson punch himself out. Which again, would mean Tyson missing for a whole fight, and with prime Tyson, that simply would not happen as he was too quick and too sharp. It's a matter of time.

At the very best I'd concede it could go the difference and be a close call on points or maybe Ali could take it on points but Ali would have to be on his very best and Tyson slightly below par, in my opinion. As, top of the shelf Tyson just had everything going for him. He had a great chin and was like a rock when being smashed, even when he was past it, even in the Lewis fight, Lewis said he was shocked at some of the punches Tyson took and didn't go down.

So, he had a great chin, was INSANELY quick, INSANELY powerful and had amazing defense and could easily give Ali a run for his money in terms of avoiding getting hit. As that was Tyson's prime mojo and goal with Cus. Moving his head, constantly. So I think even Ali would of struggled to land any big ones on Tyson and it would of been a tough job to hold him back.

Trevor Berbick beat Ali and yes I know Ali was well past it but even so, Tyson still DEMOLISHED Berbick in the first few rounds, an absolutely blistering knock-out. And once again, a great past his prime, or well past it like Ali was is of course not the same, but Ali still remained a great fighter and still had that heart, and for Tyson to totally demolish a man that beat Ali says something. If he had just about beat him, different story, but he nearly knocked his brain out of his skull.

And like I say, even Ali says Tyson would of knocked him out. If he hit him.

I completely disagree, because Ali can handle hits from anyone, and he wouldn't have to do anything that we didn't already see in his career to win. Everything that Tyson can throw at him, he's been there, yes perhaps not from someone who possess attributes that usually encompass two or three fighters abilities, but nonetheless, Ali has seen it all.

Ali could handle punches from anyone but Tyson.

Tyson was a different specimen. Even other great KO artists or big punchers did not demolish fighters in the way he did. Because he was literally designed to be the perfect fighter by Cus. Cus knew exactly what to do with him and he had a very unique height and build to work with.

Tyson was totally unique and no, just because Ali fought other big punchers does not mean he could handle Tyson. It's a totally different thing all together. Other big punchers did not throw punches at the speed and form Tyson did, in such mind-blowing abundance, with such accuracy.

Ali, or anybody, never saw anything like Tyson. Ali acknowledged this.

Also, Mike Tyson had that crazy intimidation factor which made fighters go into the fight not wanting to lose, rather than winning, and thus even before the fight, they had lost. Sonny Liston's intimidating persona in and out of the ring was just as big as Tyson's when Ali fought him, and that hardly fazed Ali either. So when it comes to intimidation, Ali could handle that too.

Tyson did have that factor, which he intentionally worked on opponents in every way he could, even by wearing black shorts, shoes and no robe so he looked like a warrior, as stripped down as humanely possible. And then starring them in the eye without blinking once.

But, even so, he got that from Ali anyway. He was influenced by Ali in that regard and knew that psychologically destroying fighters was a way to defeat them mentally before they even began.

However, that doesn't excuse his ability and what he did technically and Ali wouldn't of been intimidated, or certainly not destroyed by that, he would see through it, so that doesn't matter and is an irrelevant point to this debate. As like you say, Ali could handle that. But never would I argue Tyson could beat Ali on intimidation, it's not about that.

He doesn't need intimation, he'd beat him at boxing.

From here on, I'd love to talk about heart, intelligence, stamina, style, consistency and a lot of other characteristics, but this simply can't be done because of Cus' death and Tyson's abandonment of Rooney. You know what though, although you and I know about the history of Mike Tyson and we both realize that a lot of it was generally bad luck and wrong influences on him, we must also put Tyson at blame somewhat too, because at the end of the day, he was a grown man who had control over his own actions too. Also as much of a cheap shot this maybe, this is another advantage to Ali, because he had control over his life and didn't allow for himself to stray out of bounds. Quite simply though, we were robbed of seeing both in their prime.

Yes but you can't treat two people or certainly not those two people the same.

For all his loud mouth showmanship, Ali was / is a sane, mentally stable person in most regards. He may of been a bit grandiose but he was sensible.

And, you can't control the cards you're dealt. In life, circumstance, or your brain. And Tyson's brain is clearly not normal. I think Tyson is bipolar, and even if not, is clearly an emotionally broken person with a lot of confusion, anger and paranoia. I don't say that insultingly though as I know about every aspect of him, I've studied him personally. As he's fascinating.

But, if somebody is bipolar for example... and they, do insane things, insane amounts of drugs, have random outbursts etc. etc. then, somebody who is 'mentally healthy', doesn't do those things... you can't really shame the bipolar person and credit the non-bipolar person as they're not dealing with the same machine full of options. It's a different operating system.

It's like, I'm morally superior to a serial-killer for example. But, I'm only morally superior by matter of fact, by chance. By chance that I don't have any urges to want to kill people, and a serial-killer does. So it's not like I've had the same urges a serial-killer has but have just managed to fight them off, so 'shame on him' and 'hurray to me'. Because, I simply don't have those thoughts and it's therefore not a chore or challenge for me to 'not kill people'.

Draw from that very extreme analogy and compare Tyson and Ali. Yes Tyson is still responsible for his own actions, but given the uncontrollable circumstance(s) of his life and his very likely mental disorder of some kind... you can't really 'blame' him for the kind of person he is and therefore the actions and behavior he exhibited. He was young, confused and not well (mentally).

Finally, regardless of who's to blame for his personal turmoil, fact is... all those silly reasons and troubles outside the ring, truly are the reason for his undoing. Which is an absolute shame but also shows how in my opinion, he was / is the greatest. As, like you say - Ali had his mentality in check, yet still got beat multiple times. Where as Tyson, only lost when his real life around him melted down and I know that sounds like a dismissal of his losses or excuses but I'm sure you can appreciate, knowing his history that it's not really. As him not having Rooney around for example is SIGNIFICANT as he stopped using his technique(s) and fighting the way that made him invincible.

So, these things are directly related to his demise. But, when he was fighting right, nobody could beat him. Where as Ali could fight right and still be beaten.