Joe Budden vs. 2Pac

[classthe_king]

I'd like to see you debate diction or C.R.E.A.M or Freespeech or someone totally for 2pac on this

[Satire]

I'd like to see you debate diction or C.R.E.A.M or Freespeech or someone totally for 2pac on this

Maybe when I wake up.

[dead prez]

I'd like to see you debate diction or C.R.E.A.M or Freespeech or someone totally for 2pac on this

Meh

[DanWS]

FINALLY I can log onto trshady again.....


I'll make this quick because I need a poo. Anyway, for me, I prefer Joe. I'm a fairly big fan of Tupac, but not quite on the same level as I am of the likes of Eminem or Budden. But let's see.....

LYRICALLY.... Budden is a better lyricist than Tupac. He has a wider range of vocabulary and comes up with some fantastic rhymes that don't compromise the emotion of his content.

STORYTELLING.... I'll put them at a tie. I think Budden, Em and Pac are the best at making listeners really feel what they're going through. Personally though, I have to say, nothing Pac ever did really permeates with me on the same level as Whatever It Takes, Downfall or Black Cloud. The likes of Do For Love and Me Against The World have some very powerful lines that almost get there, but nothing Pac did manages to quite touch me in the way that Joe's most emotional songs do. Furthermore, Joe manages to convey this emotion WITH fantastic rhyming and lyricism and even surpasses Eminem in this field (perhaps only SFTM and Lose Yourself being the exceptions). In the end of the 2nd verse of "Whatever It Takes" for example, when he is talking about his continued battle with depression and his inability to shake it off, he puts himself in the role of his depression like it's an old friend, and it is just sooo well told it gives me goosebumps every time I listen to it:

This too won't last, this too shall pass
At least that's what I say y'all, that's what I pray for'
An' I'm the only thing that's standin' in my way y'all
But I gotta be with me, it's no escape y'all...
I guess Depression just stepped in, an' took-over shit like it's known ta' do.
Guess it said, "Hey Joe, I'm goin' home wit you
Turn your phone off, I needa' be alone wit you
I needa' be in the zone wit you
'Cause I'm the only thing you prone to, nikka
Look, I own you, nikka!!
Been with you since 10, but you're startin' to confuse me
'Cause it's been so long, an' you still tryna lose me...
Like, how could you show me such cruelty???
When everybody turns their back on you, Joe it's you an' me.
Joe, you don't want me to see you right?
Then why you always come get me, how we re-unite?
Tell me! I know you feel for me deep in your heart;
Doctors, meetings, pills couldn't keep us apart.
But, now you got a deal an' you wanna get rid of me
But.. we're roommates, I'm in your head, Joe you live with me."

Bear in mind the dude was only 23 or so when he wrote that.... such mature writing for a young dude.

RHYMING ABILITY...... Touched upon this already, Joe is a better rhymer than Tupac. Comes up with more complicated and consistent rhyme schemes that Tupac, in my opinion (anyone who thinks otherwise feel free to prove me wrong) didn't manage to make. I think even a lot of Die-hard Tupac fans would admit that Pac wasn't necessarily the best lyricist or rhymer on a purely technical level.

DISCOGRAPHY..... Did Tupac ever really make a classic album? Some would argue for All Eyez On Me, others would argue for the Makaveli album. For me neither quite hit the bar which would make either a classic. In my opinion, Tupac was a little inconsistent.... sometimes he'd make amazing stuff, other times he'd make stuff that was kinda ehhhh. Now for Joe.... A classic album? no, not yet. But mixtapes??? Strong arguments can be made for Mood Muzik 2 and 4. Both are dope from start to finish. And for me, Joe is probably the most consistent rapper there has ever been. When can you ever say that nothing an artist has ever put out has been trash? Eminem is my favourite rapper of all time, but some of the shit he has put out (Big Weenie, My First Single, Hello) has been garbage. There honestly isn't a song from Joe that I think "damn, that was fucking shit".

PRODUCTION.... Joe. Working with J Cardim is like the perfect match. They have chemistry like Em and Dre. Listen to MM4 if you need any convincing.

Anyway, I'm not trying to shit on Tupac here, I'm really not. He is probably in my top 5 of all time, but for me Joe Budden is a few steps higher. Anyway, sorry if this post isnt structured well, like i said i had to write this super fast as i need a poo poo. k gtg.

[Devil'sAdvocate]

FINALLY I can log onto trshady again.....


I'll make this quick because I need a poo. Anyway, for me, I prefer Joe. I'm a fairly big fan of Tupac, but not quite on the same level as I am of the likes of Eminem or Budden. But let's see.....

LYRICALLY.... Budden is a better lyricist than Tupac. He has a wider range of vocabulary and comes up with some fantastic rhymes that don't compromise the emotion of his content.

STORYTELLING.... I'll put them at a tie. I think Budden, Em and Pac are the best at making listeners really feel what they're going through. Personally though, I have to say, nothing Pac ever did really permeates with me on the same level as Whatever It Takes, Downfall or Black Cloud. The likes of Do For Love and Me Against The World have some very powerful lines that almost get there, but nothing Pac did manages to quite touch me in the way that Joe's most emotional songs do. Furthermore, Joe manages to convey this emotion WITH fantastic rhyming and lyricism and even surpasses Eminem in this field (perhaps only SFTM and Lose Yourself being the exceptions). In the end of the 2nd verse of "Whatever It Takes" for example, when he is talking about his continued battle with depression and his inability to shake it off, he puts himself in the role of his depression like it's an old friend, and it is just sooo well told it gives me goosebumps every time I listen to it:

This too won't last, this too shall pass
At least that's what I say y'all, that's what I pray for'
An' I'm the only thing that's standin' in my way y'all
But I gotta be with me, it's no escape y'all...
I guess Depression just stepped in, an' took-over shit like it's known ta' do.
Guess it said, "Hey Joe, I'm goin' home wit you
Turn your phone off, I needa' be alone wit you
I needa' be in the zone wit you
'Cause I'm the only thing you prone to, nikka
Look, I own you, nikka!!
Been with you since 10, but you're startin' to confuse me
'Cause it's been so long, an' you still tryna lose me...
Like, how could you show me such cruelty???
When everybody turns their back on you, Joe it's you an' me.
Joe, you don't want me to see you right?
Then why you always come get me, how we re-unite?
Tell me! I know you feel for me deep in your heart;
Doctors, meetings, pills couldn't keep us apart.
But, now you got a deal an' you wanna get rid of me
But.. we're roommates, I'm in your head, Joe you live with me."

Bear in mind the dude was only 23 or so when he wrote that.... such mature writing for a young dude.

RHYMING ABILITY...... Touched upon this already, Joe is a better rhymer than Tupac. Comes up with more complicated and consistent rhyme schemes that Tupac, in my opinion (anyone who thinks otherwise feel free to prove me wrong) didn't manage to make. I think even a lot of Die-hard Tupac fans would admit that Pac wasn't necessarily the best lyricist or rhymer on a purely technical level.

DISCOGRAPHY..... Did Tupac ever really make a classic album? Some would argue for All Eyez On Me, others would argue for the Makaveli album. For me neither quite hit the bar which would make either a classic. In my opinion, Tupac was a little inconsistent.... sometimes he'd make amazing stuff, other times he'd make stuff that was kinda ehhhh. Now for Joe.... A classic album?[b][/b] no, not yet. But mixtapes??? Strong arguments can be made for Mood Muzik 2 and 4. Both are dope from start to finish. And for me, Joe is probably the most consistent rapper there has ever been. When can you ever say that nothing an artist has ever put out has been trash? Eminem is my favourite rapper of all time, but some of the shit he has put out (Big Weenie, My First Single, Hello) has been garbage. There honestly isn't a song from Joe that I think "damn, that was fucking shit".

PRODUCTION.... Joe. Working with J Cardim is like the perfect match. They have chemistry like Em and Dre. Listen to MM4 if you need any convincing.

Anyway, I'm not trying to shit on Tupac here, I'm really not. He is probably in my top 5 of all time, but for me Joe Budden is a few steps higher. Anyway, sorry if this post isnt structured well, like i said i had to write this super fast as i need a poo poo. k gtg.

welcome

ITS DAT ON TOP MUZIK!

[FreeSpeech]

FINALLY I can log onto trshady again.....

What'd you get banned for

Bear in mind the dude was only 23 or so when he wrote that.... such mature writing for a young dude.

Pac was only 22 when he wrote this. Boom.

Anyway, I'm not trying to shit on Tupac here, I'm really not. He is probably in my top 5 of all time, but for me Joe Budden is a few steps higher.

So Joey's either 1, 2, 3, or 4 of all time???? L.O.L. He isn't even the best member of Slaughterhouse

[Master Chief]

Great post, DasWS. The Internet Soldiers are finally coming out of their hiding. This could be a really, REALLY epic thread if Block, Zu AND EmBase get involved. Considering EminemBase has Pac in Top 5/10 and the other two are Joe Stans.

Both of these artists, on this forum and out, have extremely loyal fanbases so this could get much more interesting.

I will say that Joe has improved his flow in an astonishing manner lately. I would honestly give him the flow category. His flow on Furiously Dangerous is on another level, Pac just cannot flow like that. Joe's flow on MM3 is good too, even on the self-titled album it was decent. I didn't really like it on MM1 or MM2 though but his peak is far beyond 2Pac's. Plus, Pac didn't switch his flow often.

[DanWS]

FINALLY I can log onto trshady again.....

What'd you get banned for

Bear in mind the dude was only 23 or so when he wrote that.... such mature writing for a young dude.

Pac was only 22 when he wrote this. Boom.

Anyway, I'm not trying to shit on Tupac here, I'm really not. He is probably in my top 5 of all time, but for me Joe Budden is a few steps higher.

So Joey's either 1, 2, 3, or 4 of all time???? L.O.L. He isn't even the best member of Slaughterhouse

Keep Ya Head up is another one of Pac's songs which, emotionally, I'd rank alongside the likes of Do For Love, So Much Pain etc.... all very, very good good or brilliant emotional content, but still, none of them touch Whatever It Takes or Downfall. But I guess that area is very much subjective - I know not everyone is gonna relate to Joe as much as some do.

I'd put Joe as my 2nd favourite rap artist of all time. Lmao who do you think is the best Slaughterhouse member? You're not gonna say Royce are you?

p.s. I never got banned, I just forgot my password and i couldnt send an email to get it reset as the email i signed up with is now defunct. so just took a long time to get it sorted.

[FreeSpeech]

[Master Chief]

Smh.

[Satire]

Smh.

Is Budden your favorite SH member now?

[classthe_king]

I thought it wasn't your job

[Satire]

DISCOGRAPHY..... Did Tupac ever really make a classic album?

Yes, everyone of the albums he released while alive is a classic maybe minus Me Against The World

I'm sorry CREAM but wut. That's literally one of his best and most recognized albums.

[FreeSpeech]

I'd put Joe as my 2nd favourite rap artist of all time. Lmao who do you think is the best Slaughterhouse member? You're not gonna say Royce are you?

No, don't count me among the hundreds of people here who started jocking Royce ever since BME.

No one in Slaughterhouse is even a top 50 of all time for me. Crooked I is my favourite maybe, Joell is definitely the most unique. His music stands out from everyone else (songs like Hip Hop). Royce and Joe just sound like rappers, ya know?

[dead prez]

When can you ever say that nothing an artist has ever put out has been trash?

Kanye West is the perfect (and only) example of that lol (Off-topic comment, couldn't resist)

Dude Black Thought, I like Kanye but just Black Thought.