Old School in the New School

[Renee7931]

People are always saying that the vast majority of old school rappers are respected for the fact that they're the veterans, paved the way, etc. Only a few gets respect for actual skill ( Rakim, Krs-1, etc. ).
My question is this: how do you think old school rappers would fare in the current state of hip hop? Not those that are still relevant i.e. Rakim, LL, but those who blew up in the 80's and faded since then. People like Slick Rick, Doug E. Fresh, Big Daddy Kane, and so forth. They were major back then, but how would they hold up against rappers like Jay Z, Redman, Em, Biggie, etc as far as battling, sales, and all that? Thoughts please!

[GoodGirlsGetGutted]

I hypothesise that sometime circa 2015, rap will see a change of trends. I believe the old school style of rap will see a resurgence in popularity and be favored for a time.
Skillwise, for the most part, no.
In battles, it depends entirely on the artist.

[Renee7931]

I hypothesise that sometime circa 2015, rap will see a change of trends. I believe the old school style of rap will see a resurgence in popularity and be favored for a time.
Skillwise, for the most part, no.
In battles, it depends entirely on the artist.

I know back then, there were small scale battles: LL vs. Kool Moe Dee, KRS vs. MC Shan, but just out of curiosity how do you think someone like LL would do in a battle against Jay? Or Big Daddy Kane or KRS against Nas?

[Renee7931]

If Big Daddy came out today he would be the best mainstream artist, his style modernized would be amazing

So he would have Jay Z status as far as hits and respect or Lil Wayne's as far as the constant radioplay? Or a little of both?

[GoodGirlsGetGutted]

If Big Daddy came out today he would be the best mainstream artist, his style modernized would be amazing

Indeed.
I would also like to see Guru from Gang Starr mainstream.

[Renee7931]

If Big Daddy came out today he would be the best mainstream artist, his style modernized would be amazing

Indeed.
I would also like to see Guru from Gang Starr mainstream.

Definitely! Also Nice and Smooth, Heavy D., A Tribe Called Quest, The Pharcyde, I could go on and on.

[GoodGirlsGetGutted]

I hypothesise that sometime circa 2015, rap will see a change of trends. I believe the old school style of rap will see a resurgence in popularity and be favored for a time.
Skillwise, for the most part, no.
In battles, it depends entirely on the artist.

I know back then, there were small scale battles: LL vs. Kool Moe Dee, KRS vs. MC Shan, but just out of curiosity how do you think someone like LL would do in a battle against Jay? Or Big Daddy Kane or KRS against Nas?

There's an expression of war: "Old soldiers never die."
I think LL, BDK an KRS would win vs. Jay, Nas or even Em. It comes down to a subconscious mutual respect for one's opponent. The younger artist would be psychosomatically effected by battling a much more seasoned veteran and fold.
That is my theoretical psychology behind verbal war.

[Renee7931]

I hypothesise that sometime circa 2015, rap will see a change of trends. I believe the old school style of rap will see a resurgence in popularity and be favored for a time.
Skillwise, for the most part, no.
In battles, it depends entirely on the artist.

I know back then, there were small scale battles: LL vs. Kool Moe Dee, KRS vs. MC Shan, but just out of curiosity how do you think someone like LL would do in a battle against Jay? Or Big Daddy Kane or KRS against Nas?

There's an expression of war: "Old soldiers never die."
I think LL, BDK an KRS would win vs. Jay, Nas or even Em. It comes down to a subconscious mutual respect for one's opponent. The younger artist would be psychosomatically effected by battling a much more seasoned veteran and fold.
That is my theoretical psychology behind verbal war.

I understand that, but my question is what if they weren't seasoned veterans? What if LL and Jay both emerged in '96? Or KRS or Guru came out in '03 when Em was huge? Not as older MC's but as they were in their youth?

[GoodGirlsGetGutted]

Ah, then that makes it interesting.
If they all came out at the same time, then I suppose there would be a rift even greater then the east coast versus west coast debacle, because the styles and its fans are so drastically contrasted.
If this was the case, then I bet it would be entire factions battling, not individual musicians.
Now we're talking alternate universe, time paradox stuff. I shan't speculate consummately, but I would think new school style would emerge victorious due to its more eclectic nature.

[Renee7931]

Ah, then that makes it interesting.
If they all came out at the same time, then I suppose there would be a rift even greater then the east coast versus west coast debacle, because the styles and its fans are so drastically contrasted.
If this was the case, then I bet it would be entire factions battling, not individual musicians.
Now we're talking alternate universe, time paradox stuff. I shan't speculate consummately, but I would think new school style would emerge victorious due to its more eclectic nature.

Eclectic in what sense? I know the 80's were simpler times, but if these artists were emerging during present times, that would mean times and content would be different as well. Wouldn't that factor in as far as lyrical skill and rhyme scheme goes? I personally think a young KRS could hold his own against a young Nas, but could a young Big Daddy Kane stand up against Biggie? Sorry for the barrage of questions I just find your viewpoints interesting!

[mcZu]

It's like putting Mozart next to Micheal Jackson, without Mozart there would be noe MJ. Ergo, without the old school there would be no new school. If both schools came out at the same time, then there would be some school before that which was the base of these new artists. And if Kane, LL and Rakim came out during the same era as Jay, Nas and Em they would obviously have the same kinda sound. Meaning that they could be as big or even bigger than the new school artists, or they would fail. It depends on the listener...

[Renee7931]

It's like putting Mozart next to Micheal Jackson, without Mozart there would be noe MJ. Ergo, without the old school there would be no new school. If both schools came out at the same time, then there would be some school before that which was the base of these new artists. And if Kane, LL and Rakim came out during the same era as Jay, Nas and Em they would obviously have the same kinda sound. Meaning that they could be as big or even bigger than the new school artists, or they would fail. It depends on the listener...

Good point, but not to necessarily say all rap artists emerge at once. I'm just thinking in terms of how some people tend to regard old school artists as far as not being as skilled, relevant, etc. with the exception of Rakim, LL, and those who are still putting out music. I was just curious to see if people view it as they aren't as skilled, were good because the music was simpler, etc etc.

[mcZu]

It's like putting Mozart next to Micheal Jackson, without Mozart there would be noe MJ. Ergo, without the old school there would be no new school. If both schools came out at the same time, then there would be some school before that which was the base of these new artists. And if Kane, LL and Rakim came out during the same era as Jay, Nas and Em they would obviously have the same kinda sound. Meaning that they could be as big or even bigger than the new school artists, or they would fail. It depends on the listener...

Good point, but not to necessarily say all rap artists emerge at once. I'm just thinking in terms of how some people tend to regard old school artists as far as not being as skilled, relevant, etc. with the exception of Rakim, LL, and those who are still putting out music. I was just curious to see if people view it as they aren't as skilled, were good because the music was simpler, etc etc.

I see, well, there are definitly a lot of rappers, who are in the game right now, who could out rap some of the old school cats. However, the thing that makes those old school emcees great, is there integrity. If you put those artists next to, let's say a Wayne or a Gucci Mayne, you would definitly hear the difference in thier music in terms of impact on the listeners. Btw, I would class LL as an new school emcee, he is the one who started selling out and embraced marketing and business like methods in the creation of his music.

[Renee7931]

It's like putting Mozart next to Micheal Jackson, without Mozart there would be noe MJ. Ergo, without the old school there would be no new school. If both schools came out at the same time, then there would be some school before that which was the base of these new artists. And if Kane, LL and Rakim came out during the same era as Jay, Nas and Em they would obviously have the same kinda sound. Meaning that they could be as big or even bigger than the new school artists, or they would fail. It depends on the listener...

Good point, but not to necessarily say all rap artists emerge at once. I'm just thinking in terms of how some people tend to regard old school artists as far as not being as skilled, relevant, etc. with the exception of Rakim, LL, and those who are still putting out music. I was just curious to see if people view it as they aren't as skilled, were good because the music was simpler, etc etc.

I see, well, there are definitly a lot of rappers, who are in the game right now, who could out rap some of the old school cats. However, the thing that makes those old school emcees great, is there integrity. If you put those artists next to, let's say a Wayne or a Gucci Mayne, you would definitly hear the difference in thier music in terms of impact on the listeners. Btw, I would class LL as an new school emcee, he is the one who started selling out and embraced marketing and business like methods in the creation of his music.

So LL is like Jay or Diddy in that sense?

[GoodGirlsGetGutted]

Ah, then that makes it interesting.
If they all came out at the same time, then I suppose there would be a rift even greater then the east coast versus west coast debacle, because the styles and its fans are so drastically contrasted.
If this was the case, then I bet it would be entire factions battling, not individual musicians.
Now we're talking alternate universe, time paradox stuff. I shan't speculate consummately, but I would think new school style would emerge victorious due to its more eclectic nature.

Eclectic in what sense? I know the 80's were simpler times, but if these artists were emerging during present times, that would mean times and content would be different as well. Wouldn't that factor in as far as lyrical skill and rhyme scheme goes? I personally think a young KRS could hold his own against a young Nas, but could a young Big Daddy Kane stand up against Biggie? Sorry for the barrage of questions I just find your viewpoints interesting!

Eclectic in the sense that new school artists are more daring with what they will do, in terms of being experimental. Instead of just being lyrical, which was the primary focus of old school rappers, a new school artist might say "I want to try a brand new flow that has never been heard before (think Em, The Way I Am)" or "I'm going to work in the beat to actually make it as much a part of the song as the lyrics (think Cam'ron, Oh Boy)" or "I'm going to sing gangster lyrics R&B style (think BIG, Playa Hataz)".
No matter how good or technically proficient a genre's music may be, its audience will always get bored after a while. New school rap does more to satiate its audience's demand for variety.
To answer your question directly, I think young KRS would beat Nas and young BDK would beat BIG.