Relapse is Epic

[EminemBase]

yea i agree with u homie with the 'hello' and 'im back' similarity. my brother thinks the same way that 'old times sake' was better than 'hell breaks loose' but i think hell breaks loose is better. but 'medicine balls' first verse is the shit. I said nice rectum i had a bycectumy hector so u cant get pregnant if i bysexualy wreck ya.

Absolutely. People (critics too) seem to focus so much on the content of Relapse. Moaning that he's not moaning. I mean... If he'd come back out with 20 personal tracks you can guarantee fans would be all bitching because they wanted psycho-killer shit lmao. Critics would play the 'same old' card too.

Aside from rhyming and flows though, which everybody seems to aknowledge as brilliant on the album... His poetry has taken new shape.

He's no longer just an eloquent rapper provoking people. I mean, "Stay Wide Awake" is incredible.

Even as you say on "Medicine Ball"... Just the way he phrases things now. He's so far-ahead, he just thinks on another level. He also treats the listener with great respect, never pandering or worrying if people will get first-name references etc.

He just fulfils his vision and write the lyrics that entertain him. That's a true artist.

I mean like "They say once bitten and twice shy, well I lie next to the guy with...". It's just non-stop beautiful use of the English language lol. Effortlessly slipping in fables, references, easily jumping from narrator to killer, 1st to 3rd person... You get simultaneous irony, shock... Nobody comes close. For me.

[professor]

The first time I listened to Relapse, I thought it was wack. I just read this thread and skimmed through the album, and I still think it's wack. I can't fuck with this serial killer content. The only time I think he came through with that type of content was on Musix Box.

Why do people keep saying he's oh soooo lyrical on Relapse? Compared to what? His earlier work was just as lyrical. He's a very consistent writer when it comes to rhyming.

The problem for me is his voice, but I'm glad it's over. I take Underground intro "shit, I don't know, but I'm back now." as okay, I snapped out of this serial killer bullshit.

Also, his witty humor and sarcastic personality doesn't shine through anymore. If he says something clever, his flow doesn't let it be dope. His new "pin-point flow" is the problem.

Forget a chorus -- my metaphors are so complicated
it takes six minutes to get applause (yay)
And by the time you all catch on, I'ma end your career
and walk away with the whole floor so you have nothin to fall back on!

Flashin back to being shot and repeatin the scenes
on how you just got smoked, and if you do live
You'll be too scared to tell it, like a Biggie and 'Pac joke

So when Slim gets this M-16 burstin'
You gettin' spun backwards like every word of obscene cursin
On the B-side of my first single with the clean version

That's SLIM SHADY. On Relapse, he's NOT SLIM, but he's a fucking serial killer. What the hell happened to this guy?

so the only song em pulls through with the serial killer content is music box? so its obvious you dont like the accent (which most people complain about) but he spits the same shit he does on music box but with the accent

[professor]

yea i agree with u homie with the 'hello' and 'im back' similarity. my brother thinks the same way that 'old times sake' was better than 'hell breaks loose' but i think hell breaks loose is better. but 'medicine balls' first verse is the shit. I said nice rectum i had a bycectumy hector so u cant get pregnant if i bysexualy wreck ya.

Absolutely. People (critics too) seem to focus so much on the content of Relapse. Moaning that he's not moaning. I mean... If he'd come back out with 20 personal tracks you can guarantee fans would be all bitching because they wanted psycho-killer shit lmao. Critics would play the 'same old' card too.

Aside from rhyming and flows though, which everybody seems to aknowledge as brilliant on the album... His poetry has taken new shape.

He's no longer just an eloquent rapper provoking people. I mean, "Stay Wide Awake" is incredible.

Even as you say on "Medicine Ball"... Just the way he phrases things now. He's so far-ahead, he just thinks on another level. He also treats the listener with great respect, never pandering or worrying if people will get first-name references etc.

He just fulfils his vision and write the lyrics that entertain him. That's a true artist.

I mean like "They say once bitten and twice shy, well I lie next to the guy with...". It's just non-stop beautiful use of the English language lol. Effortlessly slipping in fables, references, easily jumping from narrator to killer, 1st to 3rd person... You get simultaneous irony, shock... Nobody comes close. For me.

exactly

[OMEGA]

Insane is one of Eminem's most underrated songs. It is truly insane.

[KillahBee]

I like Relapse but I havent played it in months, for me the album is summed up in 2 songs, Stay Wide Awake and Underground, ie. both tracks are just random spitting that never really go anywhere, but from a technichal level, ( flow, multis, etc ) are off the hook, almost every track on the album is like that

I liked the production on it aswell, some of Dres most unique beats in years ( Medicine Ball, Underground, and Stay Wide Awake are 3 of the best beats Em has ever rapped on imo )

What do you mean that doesn't go anywhere though lmao?

You act as if he had an intention of making the tracks meaningful but failed.

He rapped about all his personal shit for about four years straight. Did you really wanna hear him come back bitching more, with slow, growly rapping? Yawn.

You can't sum any of his albums up in two tracks. There's always a lot going on.

Yes it was random spitting for the sake of it... Nobody is denying that, not even him. He was seeing if he could do it again. Rhyme-wise etc. But you could only be bored by that, if you don't actually love rap lol.

Most of Illmatic is just spitting for its sake. Yeah Nas may be rapping about more 'meaningful' shit to you just because it's real-life but so what lol. He sticks within a handful of topics and in the case of Relapse it just happened to be murder.

He can rap about anything as long as it's done well. And I think it was done superbly. I love almost every track.

Its hard to explain, but take Underground for example. 3 verses of spitting about random bullshit, thats how I see most of the tracks on Relapse, im not complaining I like the album, but I an see why some people dont.

''Yes it was random spitting for the sake of it... Nobody is denying that, not even him. He was seeing if he could do it again. Rhyme-wise etc. But you could only be bored by that, if you don't actually love rap lol.''
I agree 100% with this. I see Relapse as a warm up, Em just testing his rhyming skills again, thats why I feel most of the tracks dont really feel finished, again im not complaining but almost every track has the same formula, and for me that takes away from its replay value.

You cant compare Illmatic to Relapse, alot of people back then, and even today, could relate to what Nas was saying, plus that album was a debut, every topic Eminem covers in Relapse ( bar Insane ) he did before, but with better execution.

Im not trashing Relapse or anything, Im just viewing the album as I see it, I can appreciate the technical ability in the rhymes, but almost every verse on the the album is the same a the last.

[professor]

do you guys think in about 10 years or so a lot of people will change their mind about what they think of 'Relapse'? i think a lot of people in this new generation of music and hip hop have a different input to what they think is good, like auto-tune or some fad. i just think people will charish it a lot more in the future

[EminemBase]

Its hard to explain, but take Underground for example. 3 verses of spitting about random bullshit, thats who I see most of the tracks on Relapse, im not complaining I like the album, but I an see why some people dont.

Lmao but so is a lot of his music. The only difference is he's rapping about totally fictional shit where as before he'd often include a lot of real-life references etc.

It's also not like the other tracks on Relapse. "Underground" was him saying 'he's going back underground' - As in, he's gonna be an underground rapper again. Say fucked up shit for the sake of it and just rhyme for the sake of rhyming.

But nearly every track has a sub-text. If we take... "Hello". He's re-introducing himself as the true 'him', has been away for the past few years, consumed in drugs. That's why all the verses are poking fun at his past drug habits and then the chorus redeems it.

Or take... "Same Song & Dance". It's not only a brilliant murder tale, with each verse becoming more extreme than the next with a new victim, awesome storytelling but it's a satirical rip on cliche' songs which are made soley for the purpose of clubs. Ironically, the chorus has that 'same song and dance' feel whilst at the same time mocking it. But it's also about a girl in his car doing the same song and dance before he kills her lmao. That's not random shit, it has a plot.

You can take nearly any of the tracks, see the story and thread and see how the verses relate, make perfect sense and fit the song. "Underground" is the most random and that was on purpose.

''Yes it was random spitting for the sake of it... Nobody is denying that, not even him. He was seeing if he could do it again. Rhyme-wise etc. But you could only be bored by that, if you don't actually love rap lol.''
I agree 100% with this. I see Relapse as a warm up, Em just testing his rhyming skills again, thats why I feel most of the tracks dont really feel finished, again im not complaining but almost every track has the same formula, and for me that takes away from its replay value.

None of the tracks feel unfinished to me. They feel incredibly well versed, packed with lyricism and twisted humour and they all have huge replay value as they're totally addictive to me. Purely because of the beautiful language-play and razor-sharp flows. They're so entertaining to my ears.

You cant compare Illmatic to Relapse, alot of people back then, and even today, could relate to what Nas was saying, plus that album was a debut, every topic Eminem covers in Relapse ( bar Insane ) he did before, but with better execution.

Im not trashing Relapse or anything, Im just viewing the album as I see it, I can appreciate the technical ability in the rhymes, but almost every verse on the the album is the same a the last.

I'm not comparing Relapse to Illmatic in the sense of... Comparing how they stack up to each other. My point of mentioning Illamtic was saying, Illmatic is largely rhyming for rhyming's sake too.

You could also say each verse of Illmatic is the same of the last. They're all about hanging about in New York, drug-dealing, black-on-black violence and police brutality. If not then they're self-promotional rap, battle-style lyricism.

Em covers more topics on Relapse than Nas does on Illmatic. He does on any album. The amount of references and things he mentions is immense. It's all RELATED to murder on Relapse sure. But I see no problem in rhyming for the sake of it. That's what rap used to be about.

He's made more than enough 'meaningful shit' to earn the merit to do that now. I think Relapse is a stellar rap achievement and it's a crime against the genre for it to be viewed as it is by critics and BLUEPRINT 3 to rated higher. Nobody criticizes other rappers like they do Eminem.

Nobody bitches that Jay-Z has had the same flow for fucking ever. Or that he raps about the exact same shit every album in almost the exact same fucking way. Blueprint 3 had 10 out of 15 feature tracks. That's shocking. Doesn't deserve to be called a solo album.

And 90% of the lyrics are just Jay-Z arrogantly boasing and talking about past innovation. Wtf is that. Imagine if Relapse was just Em bragging about the impact of MMLP etc. Would be absolutely trashed. But just because Jay-Z isn't doing 'an accent' or rapping about killing it's better? No way lmao.

[KillahBee]

Its hard to explain, but take Underground for example. 3 verses of spitting about random bullshit, thats who I see most of the tracks on Relapse, im not complaining I like the album, but I an see why some people dont.

Lmao but so is a lot of his music. The only difference is he's rapping about totally fictional shit where as before he'd often include a lot of real-life references etc.

It's also not like the other tracks on Relapse. "Underground" was him saying 'he's going back underground' - As in, he's gonna be an underground rapper again. Say fucked up shit for the sake of it and just rhyme for the sake of rhyming.

But nearly every track has a sub-text. If we take... "Hello". He's re-introducing himself as the true 'him', has been away for the past few years, consumed in drugs. That's why all the verses are poking fun at his past drug habits and then the chorus redeems it.

Or take... "Same Song & Dance". It's not only a brilliant murder tale, with each verse becoming more extreme than the next with a new victim, awesome storytelling but it's a satirical rip on cliche' songs which are made soley for the purpose of clubs. Ironically, the chorus has that 'same song and dance' feel whilst at the same time mocking it. But it's also about a girl in his car doing the same song and dance before he kills her lmao. That's not random shit, it has a plot.

You can take nearly any of the tracks, see the story and thread and see how the verses relate, make perfect sense and fit the song. "Underground" is the most random and that was on purpose.

''Yes it was random spitting for the sake of it... Nobody is denying that, not even him. He was seeing if he could do it again. Rhyme-wise etc. But you could only be bored by that, if you don't actually love rap lol.''
I agree 100% with this. I see Relapse as a warm up, Em just testing his rhyming skills again, thats why I feel most of the tracks dont really feel finished, again im not complaining but almost every track has the same formula, and for me that takes away from its replay value.

None of the tracks feel unfinished to me. They feel incredibly well versed, packed with lyricism and twisted humour and they all have huge replay value as they're totally addictive to me. Purely because of the beautiful language-play and razor-sharp flows. They're so entertaining to my ears.

You cant compare Illmatic to Relapse, alot of people back then, and even today, could relate to what Nas was saying, plus that album was a debut, every topic Eminem covers in Relapse ( bar Insane ) he did before, but with better execution.

Im not trashing Relapse or anything, Im just viewing the album as I see it, I can appreciate the technical ability in the rhymes, but almost every verse on the the album is the same a the last.

I'm not comparing Relapse to Illmatic in the sense of... Comparing how they stack up to each other. My point of mentioning Illamtic was saying, Illmatic is largely rhyming for rhyming's sake too.

You could also say each verse of Illmatic is the same of the last. They're all about hanging about in New York, drug-dealing, black-on-black violence and police brutality. If not then they're self-promotional rap, battle-style lyricism.

Em covers more topics on Relapse than Nas does on Illmatic. He does on any album. The amount of references and things he mentions is immense. It's all RELATED to murder on Relapse sure. But I see no problem in rhyming for the sake of it. That's what rap used to be about.

He's made more than enough 'meaningful shit' to earn the merit to do that now. I think Relapse is a stellar rap achievement and it's a crime against the genre for it to be viewed as it is by critics and BLUEPRINT 3 to rated higher. Nobody criticizes other rappers like they do Eminem.

Nobody bitches that Jay-Z has had the same flow for fucking ever. Or that he raps about the exact same shit every album in almost the exact same fucking way. Blueprint 3 had 10 out of 15 feature tracks. That's shocking. Doesn't deserve to be called a solo album.

And 90% of the lyrics are just Jay-Z arrogantly boasing and talking about past innovation. Wtf is that. Imagine if Relapse was just Em bragging about the impact of MMLP etc. Would be absolutely trashed. But just because Jay-Z isn't doing 'an accent' or rapping about killing it's better? No way lmao.

Great post, I cant disagree with any of this, but I will say is that im just looking at the album from the perspective of the people who dont like it, but as you've pointed out, theres also alot to like about the album, if you can get past the accent that is! The content doesn't bother me, Im just giving reasons as to why the album is viewed the way it is

I haven't listened to Relapse in months, but after reading that post you convinced me

Nobody bitches that Jay-Z has had the same flow for fucking ever. Or that he raps about the exact same shit every album in almost the exact same fucking way. Blueprint 3 had 10 out of 15 feature tracks. That's shocking. Doesn't deserve to be called a solo album.
Haha too true

[professor]

Its hard to explain, but take Underground for example. 3 verses of spitting about random bullshit, thats who I see most of the tracks on Relapse, im not complaining I like the album, but I an see why some people dont.

Lmao but so is a lot of his music. The only difference is he's rapping about totally fictional shit where as before he'd often include a lot of real-life references etc.

It's also not like the other tracks on Relapse. "Underground" was him saying 'he's going back underground' - As in, he's gonna be an underground rapper again. Say fucked up shit for the sake of it and just rhyme for the sake of rhyming.

But nearly every track has a sub-text. If we take... "Hello". He's re-introducing himself as the true 'him', has been away for the past few years, consumed in drugs. That's why all the verses are poking fun at his past drug habits and then the chorus redeems it.

Or take... "Same Song & Dance". It's not only a brilliant murder tale, with each verse becoming more extreme than the next with a new victim, awesome storytelling but it's a satirical rip on cliche' songs which are made soley for the purpose of clubs. Ironically, the chorus has that 'same song and dance' feel whilst at the same time mocking it. But it's also about a girl in his car doing the same song and dance before he kills her lmao. That's not random shit, it has a plot.

You can take nearly any of the tracks, see the story and thread and see how the verses relate, make perfect sense and fit the song. "Underground" is the most random and that was on purpose.

''Yes it was random spitting for the sake of it... Nobody is denying that, not even him. He was seeing if he could do it again. Rhyme-wise etc. But you could only be bored by that, if you don't actually love rap lol.''
I agree 100% with this. I see Relapse as a warm up, Em just testing his rhyming skills again, thats why I feel most of the tracks dont really feel finished, again im not complaining but almost every track has the same formula, and for me that takes away from its replay value.

None of the tracks feel unfinished to me. They feel incredibly well versed, packed with lyricism and twisted humour and they all have huge replay value as they're totally addictive to me. Purely because of the beautiful language-play and razor-sharp flows. They're so entertaining to my ears.

You cant compare Illmatic to Relapse, alot of people back then, and even today, could relate to what Nas was saying, plus that album was a debut, every topic Eminem covers in Relapse ( bar Insane ) he did before, but with better execution.

Im not trashing Relapse or anything, Im just viewing the album as I see it, I can appreciate the technical ability in the rhymes, but almost every verse on the the album is the same a the last.

I'm not comparing Relapse to Illmatic in the sense of... Comparing how they stack up to each other. My point of mentioning Illamtic was saying, Illmatic is largely rhyming for rhyming's sake too.

You could also say each verse of Illmatic is the same of the last. They're all about hanging about in New York, drug-dealing, black-on-black violence and police brutality. If not then they're self-promotional rap, battle-style lyricism.

Em covers more topics on Relapse than Nas does on Illmatic. He does on any album. The amount of references and things he mentions is immense. It's all RELATED to murder on Relapse sure. But I see no problem in rhyming for the sake of it. That's what rap used to be about.

He's made more than enough 'meaningful shit' to earn the merit to do that now. I think Relapse is a stellar rap achievement and it's a crime against the genre for it to be viewed as it is by critics and BLUEPRINT 3 to rated higher. Nobody criticizes other rappers like they do Eminem.

Nobody bitches that Jay-Z has had the same flow for fucking ever. Or that he raps about the exact same shit every album in almost the exact same fucking way. Blueprint 3 had 10 out of 15 feature tracks. That's shocking. Doesn't deserve to be called a solo album.

And 90% of the lyrics are just Jay-Z arrogantly boasing and talking about past innovation. Wtf is that. Imagine if Relapse was just Em bragging about the impact of MMLP etc. Would be absolutely trashed. But just because Jay-Z isn't doing 'an accent' or rapping about killing it's better? No way lmao.

RELAPSE ALBUM OF THE YEAR!!

[dR3]

IMO, it wasn't better than Encore, like many people think.

[EminemBase]

Great post, I cant disagree with any of this, but I will say is that im just looking at the album from the perspective of the people who dont like it, but as you've pointed out, theres also alot to like about the album, if you can get past the accent that is! The content doesn't bother me, Im just giving reasons as to why the album is viewed the way it is

I haven't listened to Relapse in months, but after reading that post you convinced me

Nobody bitches that Jay-Z has had the same flow for fucking ever. Or that he raps about the exact same shit every album in almost the exact same fucking way. Blueprint 3 had 10 out of 15 feature tracks. That's shocking. Doesn't deserve to be called a solo album.
Haha too true

Whoa hold up. Jay Z killed Bluprint 3. He wasn't rapping about the same thing on any song. He was aiming to become a crossover artist. He's married to Beyonce now, and he's trying to go for the older crowd. I didn't hear him talk about crack or selling drugs at all. Not that I recall at least. Jay's music is nothing like it use to be, it was dope then and it's still dope now, just in a different way.

No he wasn't rapping about crack. He was rapping about how he used to rap about crack.

It's just all self-promotion and bragging. Not even creatively, not like battle-rap style, it's just straight up, non-clever, bragging. It's lame.

TEN out of fifteen tracks... I mean he doesn't produce any so he could at least solo-out the majority of them ey. And all the names on there too, they weren't even like... Obvious creative-collabs. He just grabbed every name that was hot for that time.

You got Kanye, Mr. Hudson, Rihanna, Alicia Keys... I mean come on. This album is just desperate.

[professor]

blueprint 3 gets way too much love. i like jay, but i think fabolous "loso's way" was even better than bp3.

[EminemBase]

I think Relapse was up there but I don't think it was the record of the year. As far as Hip Hop I think Jay had the best. I think Em and Cudi are tied for second and I would put 'Before I Self Destruct' up there too.

I agree that it's probably not record of the year.

I think it just about deserve hip-hop album of the year though. Blueprint 3 doesn't even compare artistically. It's an album built only for bragging, there's no real ambition, he just gives the illusion of ambition with pretty artwork and big glasses.

He grabbed every hot name to do all the hard-work for him and claw at more fame, it's nothing new, nothing exciting. It's just... Not even on the same par as Relapse to me. Not even not on the same par, it's entirely different, different aim etc. But just in musical terms, it's lame.

Kid Cudi's album deserves the #2 spot IMO. Cudi's album shits ALL OVER Jay's for me. Easily. It's a fantastic album and where Cudi sometimes falls-short lyrically, he more than makes up for artistically, in vision and in ambition. It's light-years on Blueprint 3.

Mos Def's The Ecstatic was largely slept on too. Probably because it was so-different and anti-mainstream. But it's a great album. When Mos is on-form he's something else. That's probably be tie #2 or my #3.

I don't think 50's BISD should even be in top 10. I mean if people are going to bang-on about Eminem rapping about the same shit through an album, give mmeeee aaaa breeeaaak. BISD is a total failure in everything it attempts. He didn't have the balls to be a real artist so still included some pathetic commercial-hoe songs not to mention some straight-up desperate ones. And on "Psycho", he used to be a big bad gunman and now he's a fragile-minded 'psycho' on sleeping meds?... Sounds familiar. Not to mention the awful Eminem-3am-Ripped flow attempt lmao. He's just an ear-wrenchingly bad lyricist now. There were a few good tracks but as a full album, it's dead.wood.

[Relapse.LP]

Relapse was a weak effort, in comparison to albums that came out this year, but mostly, in comparison to Eminem's previous effort.

The rhymes are complex. Who cares? The content is abhorrent.

[EminemBase]

@ Eminembase

Go listen to Jay's lyrics like you listen to Em's. Em is a way better rapper, hands down, he would kill Jay. But that Blueprint record was so fuckin dope. That's universal. It was a great record all around, and it wasn't so strong that it scared people off like Relapse did. Jay has the best lines in the game, Em has (had, will have again.. whatever) the best songs in the game. Jay says shit that goes over your head and you won't get it until like two weeks later. Plus, he's running this rap shit. "Hova the God, n.igga, blasphemy.

Bragging isn't always bad either. That's what Hip Hop started on, bragging about how good or great they were.

Just like you told killabee you can't sum up a record in two songs or two verses or two lines or two minutes. I don't recall him talking about drugs or crack once. He said it in the intro, but he wasn't talking about it. "Oh yeah, he keeps talking 'bout crack.."

At what point did I say he did talk about crack? I never. Like I said, he raps about how he used to rap. He just brags about past innovation. That's not innovative, that's the easiest route to take.

Artistically, it's totally lacking in inspiration or ambition. He had nothing new to say so just acted like King Kong and bragged about what he used to say.

I have listened to it. I wouldn't say it was lame so strongly if I hadn't. He's still ripping Biggie lyrics too. Of course there's nothing wrong with bragging. I don't care WHAT content it is. All that matters is how well it's done.

And his bragging wasn't done well at all. Things like comparing himself to The Beatles just because of how many number one albums he's had... It's really brainless stuff. If he bragged non-stop but it was non-stop beautiful irony, wit etc. It'd be all good.

It wasn't though. It's a pure face-value album. No sub-text, just straight-up arrogance and nonsense. Like BISD. We'll just have to agree to disagree on it.