Eminem at the Rap Olympics

[CrashBand]

Was that intentional irony? I think I'm giving you too much credit.

I think it is, if you are discussing battle rap. Would you take the opinion of someone seriously if they genuinely thought Soulja Boy was a better rapper than current Eminem?

Well I disagree.

Yes, as I said before, I think that everyone I listed would beat Eminem in a rap battle if they brought their A-game.

[the real slim shady]

Hadnt seen the last battle in that video, thats dope though. It would be interesting to see him battle now though as people have been saying.

[CrashBand]

Didn't think it was clever, witty or funny..

Well if you didn't find it funny, thats a pity. But the angle he took, in my opinion, was hilarious. Charron's girlfriend was standing right up the front. I love how Cruger will often knowingly beat something into the ground. A great example again was his beer jokes against Oshea.

and seeing as you admit to being biased, how is it any different from anyone suggesting Em would be better than most nowadays?

I shouldn't of said biased. I don't think I'm making a biased decision. I was just referring to how I'm a fan of his style whereas someone like Spyder prefers "bars over jokes".

And it's still a lot different. Most the members claiming it dont even know who the top tier battle rappers are - let alone how they would match up against Eminem. Whereas I'm a massive Eminem Stan, like themselves, only I've watched a lot of battle rap.

Would be interested to hear MikeNUFC, Amadeo, Insider, Spyder and DGAF's take on how they think Eminem would do. I'm sure they've mentioned it once or twice.

[AbramIsaac]

No it doesn't.

Because I, unlike you, am not a Canabis fan.

i'm not a fan nor do i listen to his music at all .. i just think he was better than dizaster ..

It's almost impossible for you to hold that as a legitimate point of view. Not to insult you, or try to say that everyone has to agree on things, but...that wasn't even close. At all. By any stretch of the imagination.

[MikeNUFC]

Interesting debate.

Because the written format only really exploded in 2008 onwards it's hard to know how well prime-Em would have done considering he was used to freestyle battles over beats, but I feel like the third verse of I Remember, for eg, is something that would have stole the show in a written battle format.

Right now, most of the top tier dudes from the classic GT era (Twist, Sauras, DFD, Illmac, Real Deal, Fresco etc), would beat current Em in the accapela written format. Without doubt. Em's smart enough not to bother with that now though, it's so far away from what he's doing and wouldn't benefit him in any way tbh.

[CrashBand]

Mike finally decides to post when he gets a result from his weekly name search.

What do you think about the freestyle format? It's all speculation of course.

[MikeNUFC]

Mike finally decides to post when he gets a result from his weekly name search.

What do you think about the freestyle format? It's all speculation of course.

Hehe, I didn't actually, haven't done that in months.

Eh, I didn't think Em was ever that great at freestyling tbh. A lot of the Scribble/WRC toptiers were much better than him in that aspect.

[Whitefox]

I can be wrong, but i think that Em said in the interview that he always had pre-written punchlines for his opponents. And when crowd was shouting about the crazy punchline all he did was talking mess till he could use another clever line.

[AbramIsaac]

He later did say that, but it wasn't something you were actually supposed to do at the time.

When it came to these freestyle battle competitions, it was supposed to be off of the top of your head. What he would do is have generic punchlines that could be applied to anyone, and then use them as filler for the stuff that he could come up with and use against someone on the spot.

You can tell though that pre-written material wasn't accepted at the time though, because he accuses people in the battle of using written verses. "That shit was dope as hell, especially since you wrote 90% of it" and "You'd swear to god this shit was written!//but it wasn't, ..." and so on.

[UofLCard]

I would think even the best battle rappers have trouble with off-the-dome freestyles.

[CrashBand]

Nah. A lot of them didn't.

Justice, Mac Lethal, Eyedea, NoCanDo. All really top freestylers.

Plus current battlers like Eurgh and Twist have some incredible freestyle rebuttals. There's are sometimes as good as written punches - it's hard to believe how good they are at freestyling.

[EminemBase]

That was supposed to be good?

I'm a huge fan of Cruger, so I'm biased, but yeah.

Didn't you like it?

And it was meant to be showing that he is witty/takes clever angles.

I found it pretty corny tbh man...

DEFINITELY not on Em's level of wit or phrasing, not even close IMO.

He just sounds like a normal guy talking, and the insults are pretty generic, and there's no actual style to it. It's a different league entirely lmao.

Also, a lot of these new battles, like that one you linked to... because there's no beat, they don't really have a flow and so they're just saying a line, then they have a bunch of time to think and they don't have to keep it going on a continuous rhythm, I could do that. That's not rapping, that's talking lmao. That's talking one line after the next, with the occasional rhythm to it.

But it's not freestyle rapping.

That Charron guy came out with the odd good... self-deprecation line though, like, a line that insulted them both. Self-deprecation is the most under-utilized powerhouse of a technique, Em's always done it and not nearly enough do. A lot are so concerned with looking cool themselves they don't realize they could look 10 times cooler if they insulted themselves at the same time.

[EminemBase]

They're not just generic insults, though. You couldn't say those insults to anybody but Charron. Completely personal and relevant.

If you haven't seen Charron's style before, you don't have the proper context to fully appreciate just how much Cruger annihilates him in that round.

The way he clowned Charron's oftentimes weak, transparent set-up lines for rebuttals ("I'll sever this whack bum, I'm better at rap son") just to set up a generic punchline ("Diss my girlfriend, you're just jealous I have one")...that's not generic.

The idea of Charron being a superhero with a Rebuttal Sense that tingles when he's thinking of a flip was utterly hilarious. It perfectly mocks how seriously Charron takes it all.

I do agree about the "just talking" aspect, though. It's a shame there aren't battles over beats anymore, but they stopped doing it because the crowd can barely hear the punchlines over the beats.

Yeah you could...

A lot / most I've ever seen / of rappers, battlers, come out with random set-ups and a lot of aimless babble to set-up one line, and do generic flip responses aka 'you're just jealous I have one' in a response to those kinds of insults.

You could totally highlight the fact that the other guy is just going to come with a predictable flip response, just in general. Maybe Charron does do that a lot, but overall the insults were still fairly weak, 'ooh a fake relationship on FB', 'an ugly gf', lmao 'ooh no, I'm so offended'.

Aka, 'having a girlfriend is cool, you don't, you fake it'... 'your gf isn't attractive', these aren't really personal or truly offending concepts, they're broadly applicable to all males between each other. It's as obvious as a mother joke, just updated to our generation to girlfriend's, with modern references and contexts such as Facebook etc.

Both talk; and to say Cruger's wit is on a level with Em's, from what I just saw is absurd. Simply saying those things isn't witty, they're obvious 'go-to' places for apparent male-to-male offense, so surely then it has to be how you say it. And neither of them say things very interestingly. But from what I saw on the third round, Charron's self-deprecation mocking the concept of himself having a rough life for gaming account bans etc. was alright.

[EminemBase]

Yeah you could...

A lot / most I've ever seen / of rappers, battlers, come out with random set-ups and a lot of aimless babble to set-up one line, and do generic flip responses aka 'you're just jealous I have one' in a response to those kinds of insults.

Oh shit, I shouldn’t have spat that lyric, too bad I did it
It’s got him mad, he’s thinking
His super power Rebuttal Sense he has is tingling
Corey Charron to the rescue! Can he flip it?
“You diss my girlfriend, I’ll sever this whack bum
I’m better at rap son, you diss my girlfriend you’re
Just jealous I have one”…I ain’t jealous of that one

If you replaced "Corey Charron" with any other rapper/battler's name, none of it would make sense. It's completely specific to the person.

That's not true though, the 'super hero' concept bit maybe, but even that could fit most as it's just a joke concept which is funny more for its format that relevance to him...

And the bit about 'I'll sever this whack bum' and the response... that could absolutely used against most. In a round-about way it's saying 'he uses cheesy set-ups and obvious lame responses'. Which is standard for insulting each other on a lyrical level, as rappers are always critiquing the way the other guy raps, even when the other guy may actually be a decent lyricist.

If you're going to have a fake girlfriend, at least pick one that's attractive
Organik suggested it as a joke, thinking nothing would happen
But she must have felt sorry for you, because you're so much of a faggot
That fake relationship is like every one of your matches, set up by Organik

He couldn't use this against anybody else. This is all Charron.

So nobody else has a girlfriend that they show on Facebook, and one that could be perceived of (doesn't need to be true, most 'momma jokes' aren't true, but you just say them as if they are) as ugly? this would basically work on anyone who shows their relationship on FB.

And I think the argument that KOTD/modern battles are full of generic insults that could be used on anyone is a weak one. The majority of insults/disses are personal/relevant now. If people aren't personal/relevant, they get crucified.

Well I haven't watched enough, but the ones I have... sometimes they are personal, but the personal insults are corny, I think few truly hit a nerve...

Dizaster vs. Canibus though... DIz definitely hit a lot of nerves, especially the part about Canibus trying to sell-out, it not working and then claiming failure is integrity LMAO.

Eminem was far less personal/relevant in his freestyle battles, and basically all his insults were in the "you-could-say-this-to-absolutely-anybody" category.

Comparing Em's battles to these is not a fair analogy. Em did use generic, though clever insults in his battles yes, but they didn't research each other, have a plethora of web clips of each other to analyze, know each other's backgrounds etc. and often didn't know who they'd even be battling.

So that's entirely different.

I think a fairer analogy would be Em's diss tracks against other rappers, since Em knew their background and wrote personal disses towards them. And these guys clearly do research and WRITE lines about each other, so pretending it's all off the top isn't accurate...

So if you take some diss lines from Em diss tracks...

So now Ja thinks that he's so tough
And Murder Inc.'s the big bad wolf
And they go huff and puff and blow our label down
But our building's made out of bricks
So you ain't taking out shit
And dawg you just did a song with Bobby Brown

That's creative, completely tailored to his personal situation and the way he phrases it and puts it all is interesting, with the big bad wolf metaphor etc.

Em's diss tracks are another level compared to these battles.

"Bully" is like a psycho-analysis and defamation of character. None of them are close to Em's level of insulting ideas, by concept or execution. I'm open to being wrong, but none I've seen are.

[EminemBase]

You have to be very observational/astute to hone in on the few flaws he actually has. To end up embarrassing a person who spends a lot of time making fun of themselves is pretty impressive.

True @ having to search harder for flaws, since all they really know of each other is sparse life details and previous battles... I just didn't find the FB shit hard-hitting though, but maybe because it just doesn't offend me. I'm not very easily offended though.

Obviously Eminem's insults would become more personal/detailed if he knew who he was battling.

Yeah... I don't agree even modern Em would get eaten alive though.

I think fans place too much emphasis on the particular style recently in measuring what he's capable of. He tries to constantly sound different, and after 14 years, that's bound to include some misses, and corny elements but when you look at the core of his writing, he's still a very very good lyricist and has charisma and wit to spare, with performance elements most aren't capable of.

If we're talking completely off the top, then yeah he would, as he's always been pretty bad and sometimes abysmal at that. The Stretch 'any word' free was amazing though.

I think regardless - he'd probably get ripped in a round or two but then get the idea of the kinds of angles and ways to take down modern battles. And then give him a pen and time to prepare against individual opponents? no chance, he'd tear them to shreds IMO, not to mention the fact Em's said pretty much everything there is to say about himself in the most brutal ways ever.

You could definitely question his integrity in recent years and definitely rip his corny puns but, material against him would run dry pretty quick, especially given that everybody knows his life and story inside out. So they'd have to be really original for it to sound damning or have an effect.

People see his recent corny puns and forget how witty he still can be. The guy hasn't changed, he's still a genius, he's just been experimenting a lot - but when you look at the 09 WW free, the 010 even, his humour and phrasing is still second to none in a very unique way. "Newsflash: I'm still trash", he's one of the only lyricists that brings a genuine adult wit, with a poetic edge that's actually funny, and actually poetic (when he gets it right). And the way he bobs and weaves in and out of literary devices is impressive, Em fans take a lot for granted. We're used to it.

His 09 Rap City free as well, the 'play it backwards' bit... these creatively brilliant moments are more sparse than ever now but, that's still a spark of genius I don't hear elsewhere.