Dr.Dre On Recovery

[EminemBase]

^ Tupac said that before their real beef. Plus the way he was describing it you could tell he wasn't just blowing smoke but was genuinely baffled at Dre's credit given his little inclusion often.

Many people have said it too. That he often gets full production credit for co-productions or little input. I mean Detox, he has a shitload of other producers doing tracks too. So it's a DR. DRE album yet... He writes none of the lyrics and other people produce as well? How the fuck is that a Dr. Dre album lmao. Should have to call that a collaberative effort.

I just think Dre gets way too much credit. And yes it's good if he oversees all of Em's projects but I really think Em should trust his gut more and stop listening to Dre and people around him. Because, before Em did Relapse, Em was going to totally re-invent himself. Then Dre said "no people just want Shady" and he tried to forcefully go back to it.

I think Dre and others around him hold his creativity back. He doesn't have enough self-belief. Despite the incredible confidence (sometimes) in his lyrics, I think he listens to others too much now.

[stillmatic]

Interesting point of view.

I always had a similar point of view on Eminem's work, but I always considered it to be Jimmy Iovine who was holding Eminem back from putting out an album 100% Slim Shady.

In terms of Detox, I don't think that's really a big deal in terms of other producers helping him. As long as its just a collaborative effort like Scott Storch has said it is, and I'm sure it's somewhere in Dr.Dre's wikipedia page, but Mel Man says a lot of Dr.Dre beats are a collabarative effort with many people using many instruments and devices, and Dre being the mastermind behind it all who put it all together. On a lesser scale, Hi-Tek usually did the same, mostly with J Dilla. I hope you're not saying Dr.Dre is just another DJ Khaled.

[Hiphopdane]

^ Tupac said that before their real beef. Plus the way he was describing it you could tell he wasn't just blowing smoke but was genuinely baffled at Dre's credit given his little inclusion often.

Many people have said it too. That he often gets full production credit for co-productions or little input. I mean Detox, he has a shitload of other producers doing tracks too. So it's a DR. DRE album yet... He writes none of the lyrics and other people produce as well? How the fuck is that a Dr. Dre album lmao. Should have to call that a collaberative effort.

I just think Dre gets way too much credit. And yes it's good if he oversees all of Em's projects but I really think Em should trust his gut more and stop listening to Dre and people around him. Because, before Em did Relapse, Em was going to totally re-invent himself. Then Dre said "no people just want Shady" and he tried to forcefully go back to it.

I think Dre and others around him hold his creativity back. He doesn't have enough self-belief. Despite the incredible confidence (sometimes) in his lyrics, I think he listens to others too much now.

I don't think it is really worth discussing how much Dre does of the work as no fan really knows but I'm sure people around him wouldn't hold him in such high esteem for no reason. I don't really think see it being a big deal working with others, It is common knowledge that working with other people makes you stronger as two brains are better than one. When speaking of it, it isn't just Dre that gets "all the credit" by having his name on the cover. People like Britney Spears, Robbie Williams, Rihanna etc. have hardly ever written a song themselves (nor done any producing), yet it is still their album. At the end of the day it is just music.

Who says that Eminem was going to reinvent him self and that he doesn't have enough self-belief? From what I've heard he asked Dre what people would want from him. I don't know/remember what Dre answered but to be fair, most people want Slim shady.

Conclusion: No one knows what's going on behind the scenes. All we can do is read what journalists write.

[EminemBase]

^ Eminem said that himself.

He said he was banging his head against the wall, trying to re-invent himself and figure out how to come out in a new way.

Yes HE kept asking Dre but point is, Em should have more self-conviction and he should of gone with his gut and re-invented himself. People around him were saying everyone wants Shady etc. so he tried to force back to it.

And it's obvious he doesn't have much self conviction these days - Chamillionaire even said that Em showed him this idea that was "totally genius" and unlike anything anybody had done but that he had no confidence in himself with it. And was asking him like "do you think this will work?" etc.

Back in the day man, he just knew what he liked and went with it. Should stop caring what everyone else thinks so much.

[Mikey1990]

^ Eminem said that himself.

He said he was banging his head against the wall, trying to re-invent himself and figure out how to come out in a new way.

Yes HE kept asking Dre but point is, Em should have more self-conviction and he should of gone with his gut and re-invented himself. People around him were saying everyone wants Shady etc. so he tried to force back to it.

And it's obvious he doesn't have much self conviction these days - Chamillionaire even said that Em showed him this idea that was "totally genius" and unlike anything anybody had done but that he had no confidence in himself with it. And was asking him like "do you think this will work?" etc.

Back in the day man, he just knew what he liked and went with it. Should stop caring what everyone else thinks so much.

co sign
espeically the bit i highlighted

[KieranLewisEM]

^ Eminem said that himself.

He said he was banging his head against the wall, trying to re-invent himself and figure out how to come out in a new way.

Yes HE kept asking Dre but point is, Em should have more self-conviction and he should of gone with his gut and re-invented himself. People around him were saying everyone wants Shady etc. so he tried to force back to it.

And it's obvious he doesn't have much self conviction these days - Chamillionaire even said that Em showed him this idea that was "totally genius" and unlike anything anybody had done but that he had no confidence in himself with it. And was asking him like "do you think this will work?" etc.

Back in the day man, he just knew what he liked and went with it. Should stop caring what everyone else thinks so much.

yeah em needs more confidence in his own ability he must have had some fantastic concepts down the years and didn't believe there were good enough and therefore never released.deffo for the best he moved away from dre and moved a new direction all by himself , i think we will see the best of eminem now and he should kill off shady if hes brave enough i think he totally moved on from that now, didn't really feel like shady on relapse and most of the tracks were supposed to be about his shady persona.

[EminemBase]

^ Eminem said that himself.

He said he was banging his head against the wall, trying to re-invent himself and figure out how to come out in a new way.

Yes HE kept asking Dre but point is, Em should have more self-conviction and he should of gone with his gut and re-invented himself. People around him were saying everyone wants Shady etc. so he tried to force back to it.

And it's obvious he doesn't have much self conviction these days - Chamillionaire even said that Em showed him this idea that was "totally genius" and unlike anything anybody had done but that he had no confidence in himself with it. And was asking him like "do you think this will work?" etc.

Back in the day man, he just knew what he liked and went with it. Should stop caring what everyone else thinks so much.

yeah em needs more confidence in his own ability he must have had some fantastic concepts down the years and didn't believe there were good enough and therefore never released.deffo for the best he moved away from dre and moved a new direction all by himself , i think we will see the best of eminem now and he should kill off shady if hes brave enough i think he totally moved on from that now, didn't really feel like shady on relapse and most of the tracks were supposed to be about his shady persona.

Yeah but I think he turned Shady into something broader but more artistic on that album.

It used to be strictly his alter-ego and an occasional metaphor for bad / evil but with Relapse he was, in all effect, playing a twisted serial killer with a gleeful joy of torture. Shady just became the label everyone could associate with so he vaguely refers to himself as that on there.

But like he said, it's just an excuse. But the rhyming, style, is much more poetic and flamboyant on that album. Old Shady was attitude, new Shady is art. He re-invented his style no doubt. People went into it wanting 'old' Shady. You won't get that, he likes to constantly change. But if you listen to it through new ear-buds, think of it as 'new' Shady. It becomes much more exciting.

But I want total-reinvention not half-ass reinvention. I hope Recovery does that.

[Hiphopdane]

^ Eminem said that himself.

He said he was banging his head against the wall, trying to re-invent himself and figure out how to come out in a new way.

Yes HE kept asking Dre but point is, Em should have more self-conviction and he should of gone with his gut and re-invented himself. People around him were saying everyone wants Shady etc. so he tried to force back to it.

And it's obvious he doesn't have much self conviction these days - Chamillionaire even said that Em showed him this idea that was "totally genius" and unlike anything anybody had done but that he had no confidence in himself with it. And was asking him like "do you think this will work?" etc.

Back in the day man, he just knew what he liked and went with it. Should stop caring what everyone else thinks so much.

Fair point. But I still can't see it being Dre (or other producers) holding his creativity back. He asked and got an answer. Maybe Dre and other people told him to do what he feels is best? No one really knows. All we get is some minor quotes from newspapers. I think it's safe to say that it is not everything we get to hear.

For hip hop fans Relapse was certaintly a great way to redeem his name with all the crazy rhyming and flowing but it obviously didn't get as much airplay as his previous albums. It looks like that "missing creativity" will be back on Recovery.

[EminemBase]

^ No Em himself, from Eminem's mouth. From his actual lips said that Dre said to him about 4 times people want Shady. Those exact words.

It's not journalists saying this it's Eminem.

I definitely think Dre holds him back. Because Dre is a great producer and old-skool rapper but Em is a true artist, that can move with the times and constantly expand and progress. Having someone like that around just hampers him IMO.

[KieranLewisEM]

^ Eminem said that himself.

He said he was banging his head against the wall, trying to re-invent himself and figure out how to come out in a new way.

Yes HE kept asking Dre but point is, Em should have more self-conviction and he should of gone with his gut and re-invented himself. People around him were saying everyone wants Shady etc. so he tried to force back to it.

And it's obvious he doesn't have much self conviction these days - Chamillionaire even said that Em showed him this idea that was "totally genius" and unlike anything anybody had done but that he had no confidence in himself with it. And was asking him like "do you think this will work?" etc.

Back in the day man, he just knew what he liked and went with it. Should stop caring what everyone else thinks so much.

Fair point. But I still can't see it being Dre (or other producers) holding his creativity back. He asked and got an answer. Maybe Dre and other people told him to do what he feels is best? No one really knows. All we get is some minor quotes from newspapers. I think it's safe to say that it is not everything we get to hear.

For hip hop fans Relapse was certaintly a great way to redeem his name with all the crazy rhyming and flowing but it obviously didn't get as much airplay as his previous albums. It looks like that "missing creativity" will be back on Recovery.

yeah but relapse was aimed at for the hardcore em fans which he should always do. why should he please other audiences and mainstream.he went back to doing what he wanted even though he was pushed into the shady thing again he reinvented it and went all out on relapse.

[Hiphopdane]

^ Eminem said that himself.

He said he was banging his head against the wall, trying to re-invent himself and figure out how to come out in a new way.

Yes HE kept asking Dre but point is, Em should have more self-conviction and he should of gone with his gut and re-invented himself. People around him were saying everyone wants Shady etc. so he tried to force back to it.

And it's obvious he doesn't have much self conviction these days - Chamillionaire even said that Em showed him this idea that was "totally genius" and unlike anything anybody had done but that he had no confidence in himself with it. And was asking him like "do you think this will work?" etc.

Back in the day man, he just knew what he liked and went with it. Should stop caring what everyone else thinks so much.

Fair point. But I still can't see it being Dre (or other producers) holding his creativity back. He asked and got an answer. Maybe Dre and other people told him to do what he feels is best? No one really knows. All we get is some minor quotes from newspapers. I think it's safe to say that it is not everything we get to hear.

For hip hop fans Relapse was certaintly a great way to redeem his name with all the crazy rhyming and flowing but it obviously didn't get as much airplay as his previous albums. It looks like that "missing creativity" will be back on Recovery.

yeah but relapse was aimed at for the hardcore em fans which he should always do. why should he please other audiences and mainstream.he went back to doing what he wanted even though he was pushed into the shady thing again he reinvented it and went all out on relapse.

Because you should always aim for something more than just your own fans. The fans would buy the shit even if it was scrapped material for Encore.

[KieranLewisEM]

He should write and do what he feels which is one of em problems lately that he doesnt but if he was aiming to please sthen it should be for the fans weather its right or wrong least its him.

[EminemBase]

Because you should always aim for something more than just your own fans. The fans would buy the shit even if it was scrapped material for Encore.

No you shouldn't aim at anyone. Your own fans or not.

A real artist should make art to please himself and hope that likeminded people like it too. If you're making art AIMED at people, any people, you're doing something wrong IMO.

There's nothing wrong with having 5 #1 hits in a row but there's something wrong with aiming at it. It shouldn't be the driving force. Quality of art should be.

[Hiphopdane]

^ No Em himself, from Eminem's mouth. From his actual lips said that Dre said to him about 4 times people want Shady. Those exact words.

It's not journalists saying this it's Eminem.

I definitely think Dre holds him back. Because Dre is a great producer and old-skool rapper but Em is a true artist, that can move with the times and constantly expand and progress. Having someone like that around just hampers him IMO.

And wasn't he right? People really want Shady. Writing lyrics as shady doesn't necesserarily mean it has to be to the same shit once again and to me it really wasn't. He stepped up his game as a story-teller while his rhymes and flows were better than on the previous albums. Well, the topics were pretty much the same but according to himself he made Relapse to prove to himself that he could still do it. In that way it was definitely a success.

I'm not too sure Eminem can move with the times (I have a great feeling that Recovery will prove me wrong). Yesterday proved that he still has to mention his mom, dad and daughters some reason all the time, although it was only a few lines.

[Hiphopdane]

Because you should always aim for something more than just your own fans. The fans would buy the shit even if it was scrapped material for Encore.

No you shouldn't aim at anyone. Your own fans or not.

A real artist should make art to please himself and hope that likeminded people like it too. If you're making art AIMED at people, any people, you're doing something wrong IMO.

There's nothing wrong with having 5 #1 hits in a row but there's something wrong with aiming at it. It shouldn't be the driving force. Quality of art should be.

I think you misunderstood me. By saying he should aim for something more than just the fans I meant that he should try something new (challenge himself).