The Universe and Energy...

[Mr. Chambers]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2RD4vTu ... re=related
i watched this video..and had lots of rebuttals...but of course they disabled the comments...so i figured i'd discuss on TR

my whole thought on the universe is they were quick to say that we know it hasn't existed forever...but how do we know there hasn't been past universes before this one? Maybe its just a never ending loop of beginning, creation, and end.

i dunno...but discuss this with me...

[*MIRANDA*]

ill watch it tonight

[classthe_king]

That's actually a very good theory

[mrjizzbomber]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2RD4vTuPN0&feature=related
i watched this video..and had lots of rebuttals...but of course they disabled the comments...so i figured i'd discuss on TR

my whole thought on the universe is they were quick to say that we know it hasn't existed forever...but how do we know there hasn't been past universes before this one? Maybe its just a never ending loop of beginning, creation, and end.

i dunno...but discuss this with me...

I actually didn't watch it, but... your thought is very on point. The 'big bang' theory is becoming very widely accepted (by the scientific community), very quickly (relative to how massive a theory it is).

One alternate theory I've heard is the multiple big bang theory. Basically, all the matter in the universe started in a super concentrated ball (forgot what they named it). In a blast energy, the mass all exploded outward. While all masses are being carried by momentum outward form that first blasting point, sub-atomic particles are attracted to each other to form Hydrogen (by gravity). Atoms of Hydrogen all attract to each other (by gravity), and concentrated masses begin to create every celestial mass in the universe. Gravity continues its course of bringing all masses together, while momentum continues its course to send everything outward.

Over the next, ya know, few hundred trillion years (I don't know how long the life of a universe really is) the universe goes its course. The key to this theory is that, as everything is traveling outwards, it is losing energy (the physics concept of 'work', for things to be moving about and stuff to be happening, the universe must be losing energy and momentum). At some point, the force carrying everything outwards is overcome by the gravitational force pulling everything inwards. Once it reaches this point, everything starts traveling TOWARDS that first blasting point (whatever you want to call it, the place where it all started). Over the next, ya know, few trillion years everything moves back inwards, converging to that one point. By the time all matter is reaching that starting point, it has so much inwards momentum (from conservation of momentum, everything will be coming in just as fast as it was going out). Everything collides upon that point, and... you are back to where you started.

At some point in the future, a second big bang occurs. And the cycle repeats. Supporters of this theory say that it is possible that not ALL matter which traveled outwards (in each big bang) comes back in - some matter has traveled too far to be pulled back in by the gravity. So, each big bang is actually smaller than the last. What happens to the matter which does not get pulled back in? Well - first, it would be significantly 'older' than the matter being re-big-banged. Secondly, it would have experienced a 'big freeze' (so much work has been done, that all energy has been dispelled as heat, and no more further work can be done. Basically, it is without energy, and just frozen in space). And thirdly, it is possibly what you would call other universes (each big bang leaves matter which becomes its own 'universe').

Its a cloudy theory, but the multiple big-bang theory does make a long of sense, as a whole. The other theory is that our universe is the first and only universe, and by the end of its life all the matter will be so far apart that gravity between masses will be almost nil. In that case, the universe will end its life with heat death - no more work will be possible in the universe.

I sort of like what you suggested, the idea that the universe can be a never ending cycle of beginning / creation / end.

I'll watch the video later... too many sports to watch right now!

[Mr. Chambers]

^very interesting theory...
i've also questioned about whether there are multiple universes existing simultaneously......like two different planets or galaxies....it's also lead me to question what really is in a black hole. We all know its just a big gravity shit hole....but what happens on the other side?....or is there really nothing of utter importance on the other side? do objects just get ripped apart atom by atom until theres finally just the energy left from doing so?

just alot of questions i wished i was 1) intelligent enough to answer 2) possible to find an answer too.

[mrjizzbomber]

^very interesting theory...
i've also questioned about whether there are multiple universes existing simultaneously......like two different planets or galaxies....it's also lead me to question what really is in a black hole. We all know its just a big gravity shit hole....but what happens on the other side?....or is there really nothing of utter importance on the other side? do objects just get ripped apart atom by atom until theres finally just the energy left from doing so?

just alot of questions i wished i was 1) intelligent enough to answer 2) possible to find an answer too.

There is no 'other side' of a black hole, thats science fiction.

Gravity is proportional to the mass of an object. You and I have gravity, a marble has gravity, but less than us. The Earth and moon have gravity, the sun has gravity... all mass has gravity. Gravity is the force that pulls all objects towards each other (not only does the Earth pull you downwards when you jump, you pull the Earth upwards towards you!).

When a large star (much, much larger than our sun) dies (stops burning), it goes through the same process of star death that all other stars do... to a point. I'm not 100% sure on the details, but it first becomes a red supergiant, expanding in side by some order (hundred times as large as it was? thousand times as large? not sure..). Finally, it explodes. What a normal (smaller) star does, is explodes in what is called a nova. All the matter that was part of that star goes flying outwards, and you are left with a small center, called a dwarf star (I believe). That dwarf is not burning, is not massive enough to pull celestial objects towards it, its kind of a dead rock.

Anyway, when a large star dies, it explodes as a super nova - huge explosion. The difference between a large star dying and a smaller star is, the large star was so massive, and has so much gravity, it starts pulling nearby objects towards its dense center. The gravity is so much so that the remaining celestial body starts pulling everything inwards, even its own matter. It gets denser and denser, and adds more and more mass to it. Since it is adding more mass to it, it has more gravity (remember, gravity is proportional to mass). This process continues until the object is so dense and so massive that its gravity is so large it even pulls light inwards. This is why it appears 'black', because no light reflects off it, it just gets pulled into the incredibly dense mass that is the black hole.

So, lets theoretically say you could jump into a black hole. Science fiction tells you that you would be sucked in, and spit out somewhere else. Well, what would happen would be you would be ripped into individual atoms, and pulled into the center of the mass of the black hole. Your atoms would become part of the dense mass, and that would be it.

So, basically, the last thing you said is on point, although... its not that there is only energy left. The black hole is made of matter - just very dense matter. Atoms themselves are mostly empty space. If you think of the nucleus of an atoms as the center of a football field (I think this is the example I was taught in HS), the nearest electron is something like a mile away (the teacher references a specific road). So, the atom is mostly (>99%, I think) empty space. This means, there is a lot of possibility to compress that atom, which happens in the black hole to achieve that density.

What happens when atoms are compressed like that, and sub atomic particles are brought so close? Thats the kinda stuff science needs to be focusing on! Who knows?

[mrjizzbomber]

I just want to point out, I'm by no means an expert on this stuff. I'm sure I'm screwing up details here and there, but the general ideas and points I'm trying to make should be accurate.

[Mr. Chambers]

^i knew all that...but...how do we know this. we as humans assume everything works in an orderly style and expect everything to follow certain guidelines we have learned.
For example:
the fact that EVERY living creature needs oxygen to survive. What if other alien creatures could survive on CO2? or some other source for life?

we assume to much, but never seem to be opened to "what if we're wrong?". just my opinion

[Wic Kid]

Good theory. But...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZuknsnp ... re=related

05:00 mark.

[mrjizzbomber]

For example:
the fact that EVERY living creature needs oxygen to survive. What if other alien creatures could survive on CO2? or some other source for life?

we assume to much, but never seem to be opened to "what if we're wrong?". just my opinion

Woah, what? There are many living organisms that don't need oxygen to survive, they are called anaerobic organisms. They create energy through either anaerobic respiration or fermentation. Some anaerobic organisms are even hurt or killed by the presence of oxygen.

I don't think any physical "assumption" made by the scientific community (particularly in physics) will be shattered to such a great extend in the exploration of the universe that things will be too much different than what we can imagine. Our guesses and predictions, models an theories won't be perfect, but... nothing so crazy as there being an 'other side' of a black hole will ever be discovered.

I think where the shocking finds will be when we fill in the gaps in our knowledge, ie: what happens when atoms are compressed by many orders of magnitude by the gravity of a black hole, what happens when matter accelerates past light speed. For questions like these, we can't be wrong, because we haven't attempted an answer yet.

Thats the great thing about science: things remain theories. Even gravity, as it is not yet fully understood. What we call laws are just that. I don't think any scientific law will be found 'wrong', and if any are... well, the scientific community tends to be more open minded than you think.

[Liquid_Fangs]

Mr.Chambers you are correct yet unoriginal. I also beleive in this same theory.

The part about needing oxygen is incorrect though, life can exist as long as there is a source of radiant energy (from what we know at the moment).