Is Big L the most overrated rapper ever?

[Hiphopdane]

...and why is that?

[dead prez]

We're talking about the same Big L that made a prime Jigga sound worthless on their 7 minute style?

I actually think that Jigga's verse wasn't bad and had double entendrees and metaphors better than Big L's superficial multis. Oh and just so you know shitting on someone on a track doesn't make you better rapper than the one you shitted i.e. Pun shitting on Raekwon in Fire Water, Prodigy shitting on Nas in Self Conscious.

The guy was easily one of the most talented emcees ever, and you say nobody gave a shit about him before he died?

Seeing as how he was basically a nobody before he got shot and I repeat several members of DITC were on the same level as him if not better aka Diamond D, OC (They actually have a five star albums inder their belt) Hell even Camron outshined him on quite a few songs they did together.

You do realize he was about to sign for Rocka Fella a week before he died, right?

I don't like making basless conjecture, and playing what ifs

Listen to Sandman 118 and tell me L is overrated...flow, delivery, breath control, freestyling, rhyme schemes, punchlines, charisma - he's up there with anybody in each of those categories

And yet couldn't tell a story without having a punchline every five seconds, couldn't make a banger I mean I could go on. He was far too one dimensional and felt like a 90s cassidy, papoose, fabulous with more charisma. As far as those aspest every decent emcee should have those it's really not saying anything.

[mcZu]

1) There is nothing wrong with punchlines, it's part of the essence of rap.

2) Tupac, Jay-Z, and Biggie are overrated.

Big Pun and Big L are eons ahead of them. Making a banger doesn't make you a good rapper. Tupac is someone I like to listen to, because I enjoy his work, but he's overrated, too. As for Jay-Z, I like to listen to him, too, but he's way too overrated. Biggie was overrated as well, only thing he had going was a smooth flow. Big Pun shits all over them, so does Big L. Go study your Hip Hop, bruh, you're clearly contradicting yourself by saying that if a rapper has stans he's considered top ten, while Tupac, Biggie, and Jay have one of the mist ignorant fans ever, now, you tell me who shouldn't be in the top ten.

[dead prez]

What made you make this thread? Big L is hardly mentioned here.

I was talking about in general search the net and see how many people fellate him like there's no tomorrow.

It's beyond me you can say he is overrated. In my opinion he's all around just a perfect emcee; rhymes, flows, lyrical content, charisma, rhetoric, story telling etc. Everything. His thoughts were so vivid. Life of the poor and dangerous is easily one of my favourite albums.

The only thing he has is charisma and punchlines, he couldn't tell a story without having punchlines every five seconds.

I agree that some people tend to jump the bandwagon and make dead emcees sound better than they really were but there is also A LOT of people who have rational opinions on rappers. At the end of the day I don't believe that anybody praises someone just because they are dead. They praise artists because they like them.

No they overrate dead artists that die at their prime because their's too many "what ifs', "If Big L was alive would he be running NY", If Big L was alive would he completeley outshine Jay".
any rapper who dies in their prime becomes defied in retrospect beyond what they actually acomplished in their lifetime.

If Prodigy died after Murda Muzik hell even after HNIC, you'd have a legion of stans saying he's the goat, meanwhile NO ONE now adays mentions Mobb Deep in their top 10. Same thing could have happened to Big L which is why I hate overrated dead rappers without enough material to judege whether or not they could have been the greates.

Below are examples of some of his great skills:

Yo once again it's the big l, that kid who got much props
From killin corrupt cops, with motherfuckin buck shots
So don't step to this, cause I got a live crew
You might be kinda big but they make coffins yo' size too


They say that my skin was black so they attacked
Threw me on the back and stuck a gat to my fuckin cap
One murdered my man like it was okay
For the life he ended he got suspended with no pay
But if a man woulda took the cop life, he woulda got life
And never again see the street lights, and that's trife

What's that supposed to prove I listened to more than enough songs to know which verses would have been recycled .

[dead prez]

Yep, it's official the OP's knowledge of emceeing is just simply wrong.

I always thought opinions can't be wrong. but hey...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUawT_tl7sg

Hahahaha actually debate or gtfo

[dead prez]

...and why is that?

Minus the influence those albums had, minus the fact that the beats were dull and that if felt like a refined mixtape nothing. And putting it next to albums like HOE, Capital Punishment, Doe or Die is no shame.

[dead prez]

1) There is nothing wrong with punchlines, it's part of the essence of rap.

There's nothing wrong with them but putting them in a song every five seconds to compensate for your other lack of skills is not a good thing at all.

2) Tupac, Jay-Z, and Biggie are overrated.

They're overrated too, but deserve to be mentioned as goats far more than Big L or Big Pun do. Tupac has more than enough material and has two classics or at least really great albums, not to mention was far more versatile than Big L and Pun could ever hope to be.

Biggie is overrated as hell too, but like Pac was more versatile and wasn't a one dimensional multisyllabic rapper or punchline rapper.

Big Pun and Big L are eons ahead of them. Making a banger doesn't make you a good rapper.

I know that it just shows your verstality as a rapper and seperates thos with charisma from the walking dictionary emcees.

Tupac is someone I like to listen to, because I enjoy his work, but he's overrated, too. As for Jay-Z, I like to listen to him, too, but he's way too overrated.

Are you going to keep repeating the same shit without giving reasoning ad naseum?

Biggie was overrated as well, only thing he had going was a smooth flow. Big Pun shits all over them, so does Big L.

Biggie had an amazing flow, charisma and was one of the best story tellers is rap next Ghostface, Nas, Em and Slick Rick. Pun couldn't make a song without sounding robotic as hell with his multis sorta like R.A. the Rugged Man

, now, you tell me who shouldn't be in the top ten.

Definitely not Big L or even Big Pun arguably.

[mcZu]

1) There is nothing wrong with punchlines, it's part of the essence of rap.

There's nothing wrong with them but putting them in a song every five seconds to compensate for your other lack of skills is not a good thing at all.

Jay-Z and Tupac seem to lack that skill, so they compensate with something else. It is what defines him, it has nothing to do with just compensating his lack of other skills, because no emcee has it all. Every emcee has something in which he/she excels. It just looks like you hate punchlines, OK, good for you, to each their own

2) Tupac, Jay-Z, and Biggie are overrated.

They're overrated too, but deserve to be mentioned as goats far more than Big L or Big Pun do. Tupac has more than enough material and has two classics or at least really great albums, not to mention was far more versatile than Big L and Pun could ever hope to be.

Biggie is overrated as hell too, but like Pac was more versatile and wasn't a one dimensional multisyllabic rapper or punchline rapper.

Having a huge scala of material doesn't classify you as a GOAT. Tupac was versatile, I'll give him that. But skills wise, in terms of lyrics, he is far below Big Pun and Big L.

Big Pun and Big L are eons ahead of them. Making a banger doesn't make you a good rapper.

I know that it just shows your verstality as a rapper and seperates thos with charisma from the walking dictionary emcees.

So, an emcee who lacks skill is called charismatic, and an emcee who has skill is called a walking dictionary these days? I see. OK, just shows again that you prefer certain rappers over certain rappers, good for you. But, since you can't prove charisma, because that is preference bound, we'll have to do with the fact that Big Pun and Big L were more skilled rappers, which can be proven, just look at their lyrics. Whether you like their music or not, they were better rappers.

Tupac is someone I like to listen to, because I enjoy his work, but he's overrated, too. As for Jay-Z, I like to listen to him, too, but he's way too overrated.

Are you going to keep repeating the same shit without giving reasoning ad naseum?

I didn't repeat anything, I elaborated on my previous statement. Don't try to look smart, because if there is someone here, in this thread, that's being redundant, then that person would be you. And it's ''nauseam'', not ''naseum''. Next time spell it properly when you're trying to look smart.

Biggie was overrated as well, only thing he had going was a smooth flow. Big Pun shits all over them, so does Big L.

Biggie had an amazing flow, charisma and was one of the best story tellers is rap next Ghostface, Nas, Em and Slick Rick. Pun couldn't make a song without sounding robotic as hell with his multis sorta like R.A. the Rugged Man

Biggie's story telling is nowhere near Ghost, Nas, Em, or Slick Rick. Pun didn't sound robotic, Biggie did sound like he had something in his mouth while he was rapping...

, now, you tell me who shouldn't be in the top ten.

Definitely not Big L or even Big Pun arguably.

Since there is no fixed factual top ten of emcees, I'll leave it at preference. They're in my top ten anyway. Neither Pac, Jay, or Biggie are, though. There are emcees that I enjoy more than those three.

[Master Chief]

^ /thread

[dead prez]

^ /thread

Can you actually debate without dickriding off other members?

[Master Chief]

^ /thread

Can you actually debate without dickriding off other members?

lol

Why do you respond to me and not to Zu? Oh right....

[dR3]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c515ix-9bnY

This song > any song Big or Pac ever made.

[dead prez]

1) There is nothing wrong with punchlines, it's part of the essence of rap.

There's nothing wrong with them but putting them in a song every five seconds to compensate for your other lack of skills is not a good thing at all.

Jay-Z and Tupac seem to lack that skill, so they compensate with something else. It is what defines him, it has nothing to do with just compensating his lack of other skills, because no emcee has it all. Every emcee has something in which he/she excels. It just looks like you hate punchlines, OK, good for you, to each their own

I don't hate punchlines there's a time and place for it, but having to repeat it so many times just to make your song look more impressive is superficial.

And you're really going to compare this (storytelling wise, if you can bring a better big l song by all means)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BL9l5CojBNQ

to

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mBilft7RiE

or this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3ifsQOFiPw

2) Tupac, Jay-Z, and Biggie are overrated.

They're overrated too, but deserve to be mentioned as goats far more than Big L or Big Pun do. Tupac has more than enough material and has two classics or at least really great albums, not to mention was far more versatile than Big L and Pun could ever hope to be.

Biggie is overrated as hell too, but like Pac was more versatile and wasn't a one dimensional multisyllabic rapper or punchline rapper.

Having a huge scala of material doesn't classify you as a GOAT. Tupac was versatile, I'll give him that. But skills wise, in terms of lyrics, he is far below Big Pun and Big L.

It definitely is one factor, I mean do you even hear the amount of recycled Big L verses? As for Big Pun he only has Capital Punishment, Yeah Baby was trash. You need a decent criteria to be goat material other wise you could drop one classic than leave the game and be compared to someone who'se catalgoue is like Pac's.

Big Pun and Big L are eons ahead of them. Making a banger doesn't make you a good rapper.

I know that it just shows your verstality as a rapper and seperates thos with charisma from the walking dictionary emcees.

So, an emcee who lacks skill is called charismatic, and an emcee who has skill is called a walking dictionary these days? I see. OK, just shows again that you prefer certain rappers over certain rappers, good for you. But, since you can't prove charisma, because that is preference bound, we'll have to do with the fact that Big Pun and Big L were more skilled rappers, which can be proven, just look at their lyrics. Whether you like their music or not, they were better rappers.

Horrible Strawman, and yeah it does making bangers while putting out street shit (Niggas Bleed; Hypnotize) shows versatility and being able to appeal to different audiences. Thus Charisma, as opposed to Big L or Pun who just try look al technical with multis and punchlines. Oh and being better lyricist=/= being a better rapper

Tupac is someone I like to listen to, because I enjoy his work, but he's overrated, too. As for Jay-Z, I like to listen to him, too, but he's way too overrated.

Are you going to keep repeating the same shit without giving reasoning ad naseum?

I didn't repeat anything, I elaborated on my previous statement. Don't try to look smart, because if there is someone here, in this thread, that's being redundant, then that person would be you. And it's ''nauseam'', not ''naseum''. Next time spell it properly when you're trying to look smart.

You didn't elaborate you just repeated the same shit, and are trying to go all passive aggressive at me for making a spelling mistake while I called you out on your bs.

Biggie was overrated as well, only thing he had going was a smooth flow. Big Pun shits all over them, so does Big L.

Biggie had an amazing flow, charisma and was one of the best story tellers is rap next Ghostface, Nas, Em and Slick Rick. Pun couldn't make a song without sounding robotic as hell with his multis sorta like R.A. the Rugged Man

Biggie's story telling is nowhere near Ghost, Nas, Em, or Slick Rick. Pun didn't sound robotic, Biggie did sound like he had something in his mouth while he was rapping...[/quote]

He was definitely on the same level as Nas and Ghost and arguably better than Em. I mean Gimme the Loot, Niggaz Bleed, I got a story to tell, Somebody's got to die and yes Pun was robotic he couln't make a decent verse without relying on multis. And did you hear his horrible breath control, turn up CP and you'll hear him gasping for air.

, now, you tell me who shouldn't be in the top ten.

Definitely not Big L or even Big Pun arguably.

Since there is no fixed factual top ten of emcees, I'll leave it at preference. They're in my top ten anyway. Neither Pac, Jay, or Biggie are, though. There are emcees that I enjoy more than those three.

Going by that logic I can say Lil Wayne is top 10 as well. There has to be some criteria met, influence, legacy, consistancy play a role.

[dead prez]

^ /thread

Can you actually debate without dickriding off other members?

lol

Why do you respond to me and not to Zu? Oh right....

You were saying, now why don't you try refuting me? Instead of riding of a guy that can actually debate in this site.

[Master Chief]

Your argument is BS.