Eminem vs Immortal Technique?

[classthe_king]

Immortal Technique is not dumb in the slightest bit. He's actually very smart.

[dead prez]

So is Nas a sellout too?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMPgYMNc0FU

Points to Illmatic transition to IWW, or worse Nastradamus.

[whiteamerica]

B) Not talented enough? Why ? Because you say so? The rhyme schemes and delivery he has in his songs put him amongst the creme de la creme of hip hop when it comes to talent.

He's a decent lyricist no doubt, but he's definitely not a top tier rhymer. No way are his multies touching Eminem, Pun's, R.A.'s, etc. But of course multies is only one aspect of lyricism.

so since his lyrics aren't fast paced and hard to sing he's a bad, or mediocre, rhymer????

.... his shit is much more complicated and thought out. although i do enjoy pun and eminem and RA. Tech is a different type of rapper

[stillmatic]

]
So he wants to use Hip Hop as some sort of medium to spout his bullshit? And yes before you hammer, I know about the contributions he made and blabla, yes he's probably a great person irl, but we're discussing music.

WTF? Spout his bullshit. This is what annoys me, you speak as if he's trying to brainwash people and make a quick dollar, when clearly even excluding the rest of his music, his life in general it's clear to see from his contributions that he genuinely believes in the ideology he mentions in his music.

For one, what is music about? What is rap about?

As KRS One explained:

Hip means to know
It's a form of intelligence
To be hip is to be up-date and relevant
Hop is a form of movement
You can't just observe a hop
You got to hop up and do it
Hip and Hop is more than music
Hip is the knowledge
Hop is the movement
Hip and Hop is intelligent movement
Or relevant movement

That's what Technique does. He talks about issues that relate to him and issues that relate to millions of people. How is that spouting bullshit. Music is about expressing your feelings, to say that he's spouting bullshit is fucking stupid.

Using that as a logic, it demeans everyone who's ever done or spoken for change in aspects such as racism, government control, socialism etc. (just to name a few). It's like saying Martin Luther King used his rallies to spout bullshit. It's like saying Malcolm X used his general assemblies to spout bullshit. It's like Che Guevera used his social gatherings in his early days to spout his bullshit. It's like saying Bob Marley used his studio to spout his bullshit. It's like saying John Lennon used his compact tapes to spout bullshit. WTF? No they're expressing themselves through ways that is accessible for them.

[dead prez]

so since his lyrics aren't fast paced and hard to sing he's a bad, or mediocre, rhymer????

.... his shit is much more complicated and thought out. although i do enjoy pun and eminem and RA. Tech is a different type of rapper

I never said that, I'm talking about pure rhyming in the purest form the word, he's not touching Eminem, Pun and R.A. in pure rhyming. You know Eminem in MMLP, overall lyricist yeah he's great. And of coures you can be a great lyricist without relying on multies out the ass.

[HereHere]

[xxTrigger1989xx]

for one. production on recovery, and other new stuff, was bad. also eminem strayed away from making a higher concentration of meaningful/storytelling songs. and began with less meaningful, lil wayne-esque (metaphor/punchline filled).... disagree if you want, then go listen to wont back down, and then listen to 6 foot 7 foot. you'll see what i mean. unless you like lil wayne.... which would be sad

He did go back to punchlines, but they're nothing like Lil Wayne's punchlines. Em's punchlines > Wayne's any day. It's not like the punchline game is new to Eminem anyway, he's done punchlines before. He has plenty of storytelling in Recovery. Talkin' 2 Myself, On Fire, W.T.P., Going Through Changes, Space Bound, 25 To Life, So Bad, Almost Famous, Love The Way You Lie, You're Never Over. ALL are storytelling tracks or have storytelling in them. Meaningful songs would be Talkin' 2 Myself, Going Through Changes, Not Afraid, Space Bound, 25 To Life, Love The Way You Lie, and You're Never Over. There's a good amount of both meaningful songs AND storytelling songs on Recovery. He didn't make it SUPER serious, but he didn't make it all jokey/punchliney too. It's a good balance of both

I don't really like Lil Wayne, but even if I did, that doesn't make my opinion any less valuable. I like SOME of his music (and that's a VERY small "some"), but I don't hate the guy automatically if he actually has a good song. It's just MOST of his music is garbage, but not all of it. If he gives us good music, I'll welcome it, but it's dumb to not like a song because Lil Wayne is on it, despite how good or bad he does. And for the record, he did decent on No Love, IMO

[whiteamerica]

so since his lyrics aren't fast paced and hard to sing he's a bad, or mediocre, rhymer????

.... his shit is much more complicated and thought out. although i do enjoy pun and eminem and RA. Tech is a different type of rapper

I never said that, I'm talking about pure rhyming in the purest form the word, he's not touching Eminem, Pun and R.A. in pure rhyming. You know Eminem in MMLP, overall lyricist yeah he's great. And of coures you can be a great lyricist without relying on multies out the ass.

ok. if that's ALL that you're talking about.... but remember. one dimensional makes you automatically bad.

BUT HE IS SO FUCKING "ONE DIMENSIONAL" IT IS NOT EVEN FUNNY.

[stillmatic]

Fwiw. I like this thread. Despite me being a huge Technique fan, and completely disagreeing with some peoples views here, I'm reading them to the full. It's simply a debate.

So I don't mind it.

[whiteamerica]

Fwiw. I like this thread. Despite me being a huge Technique fan, and completely disagreeing with some peoples views here, I'm reading them to the full. It's simply a debate.

So I don't mind it.

agreed. idk why it's discouraged

[dead prez]

WTF? Spout his bullshit. This is what annoys me, you speak as if he's trying to brainwash people and make a quick dollar, when clearly even excluding the rest of his music, his life in general it's clear to see from his contributions that he genuinely believes in the ideology he mentions in his music.

I do respect that he refuses to dumb his music down, and sell out. But what annoys is how he tends to attract rebellious 16 year olds like flies over dog shit, with his agenda.

For one, what is music about? What is rap about?

You actually have to sound good before kicking that knowledge.

That's what Technique does. He talks about issues that relate to him and issues that relate to millions of people. How is that spouting bullshit. Music is about expressing your feelings, to say that he's spouting bullshit is fucking stupid.

You don't think he's polluting the mind of teens everywhere who eat up every word he says, withough actually looking in to the issue. And there are other artists who touch upon I.T. subject matter with more tact btw.

Using that as a logic, it demeans everyone who's ever done or spoken for change in aspects such as racism, government control, socialism etc. (just to name a few). It's like saying Martin Luther King used his rallies to spout bullshit. It's like saying Malcolm X used his general assemblies to spout bullshit. It's like Che Guevera used his social gatherings in his early days to spout his bullshit. It's like saying Bob Marley used his studio to spout his bullshit. It's like saying John Lennon used his compact tapes to spout bullshit. WTF? No they're expressing themselves through ways that is accessible for them.

Are you really comparing MLK and Malcolm X to I.T.?

[dead prez]

ok. if that's ALL that you're talking about.... but remember. one dimensional makes you automatically bad.

BUT HE IS SO FUCKING "ONE DIMENSIONAL" IT IS NOT EVEN FUNNY.

Are you implying those artist I listed are one dimensional?

[stillmatic]

You don't think he's polluting the mind of teens everywhere who eat up every word he says, withough actually looking in to the issue. And there are other artists who touch upon I.T. subject matter with more tact btw.

Are you really comparing MLK and Malcolm X to I.T.?

WTF? Polluting hte minds of teens everywhere, you speak as if his music is constantly played on the radio and impossible to escape and has hidden subliminal meanings in them to put the youth in a state of mind to do things that they shouldn't. No.

Immortal Technique's music is available for people who LOOK to find something like it, or are lucky enough to stumble upon it and thus are interested in it. It is NOT like any artist who's music is shoved down peoples throats and is promoted and marketed and intended to try and capture your attention.

Also no I'm not comparing Technique to MLK or Malcolm, I'm comparing their right to speak and express what they feel. If you say Technique spouts bullshit, then you're saying they do too.

Spout bullshit = Adolf Hitler, Glen Beck, Sarah Palin. You know why? Because they have hidden agendas in their comments. That's what spouting bullshit is.

[dead prez]

WTF? Polluting hte minds of teens everywhere, you speak as if his music is constantly played on the radio and impossible to escape and has hidden subliminal meanings in them to put the youth in a state of mind to do things that they shouldn't. No.

Immortal Technique's music is available for people who LOOK to find something like it, or are lucky enough to stumble upon it and thus are interested in it. It is NOT like any artist who's music is shoved down peoples throats and is promoted and marketed and intended to try and capture your attention.

He is probably the most known underground rapper behind guys like Mos Def, and Tech N9ne and is probably one of the first underground artists you stumble upon when you first hear underground. What I mean is his overall message and how, ignoramus teens take his word and act like he's the end all be all whilst having zero knowledge about the subjects he speaks about.

Also no I'm not comparing Technique to MLK or Malcolm, I'm comparing their right to speak and express what they feel. If you say Technique spouts bullshit, then you're saying they do too.

Obviously he's allowed to say it, it's just overly obnoxius he is and delivers it horribly. Nas on Untitled, Ras Kass, Dead Prez, and a shit ton of other artists speak about similar subjects whilst not cursing about Satan and dead babies every line, nor are they verly obnoxious in their views.

Oh and no rapper deserves to be compared to MLK and Malcom X no not even Pac.

Spout bullshit = Adolf Hitler, Glen Beck, Sarah Palin. You know why? Because they have hidden agendas in their comments. That's what spouting bullshit is.

Lol, I'd rather not turn this to a political debate.

[stillmatic]

I fail to see you're trying to say really.

You have an argument, but not a point.

Every rapper ever can be questioned and tried to be held accountable for their lyrics for 'poisoning' the minds of young people who are not clever enough to understand their lyrics and misconstrue it. That's impossible to stop. What they can do, and what Immortal Technique does, is to try and educate them in a manner which can be referenced and can be done in a manner that keeps them interested. That's the best he can do.

Also, Nas on Untitled, or Dead Prez are nowhere near the viciousness of Technique. Technique goes way beyond the discussions of Nas or Dead Prez, the only artists capable of being compared to Technique are the likes of Paris.

Before calling him obnoxious, how about doing some reading on what he's talking about. He's not lying, he's not making things up, he's talking about things that have happened, that are there in writing, that are there in visuals for you to see. What you call ignorance, others call visionary.

How dare he make people be interested in the state of the world and want to pick a book up and read rather than stay at home playing video games all day.