EminemInsider wrote:I think it's safe to say that for MOST people (dipshit rap fans not included), the term "lyricism" refers to the poignancy of how someone says something. It's about the ability to convey meaning in an articulate, vivid/detailed, and moving manner.
What's the whole point of this all the other rappers I referenced could do this so trying to educate me on that regard was pointless.
Rhyme schemes have an affect on this.
No they don't not anymore than "stupid" punchlines, they just make your flow complex but that's it.
Stupid, forced punchlines are not.
Except they're not forced, well not anymore than say any of Eminem's best multies.
You don't see musicians in other genres writing "It's so serious every time I write my John Hancock/Like, you could damn near see Detroit." Why not? Because it's fucking stupid.
So now you're basing this arbitary system which you pulled out of your ass on other genres to make a point? Fail
Punchlines make for nice filler. The problem is, you're heavily evaluating the quality of rappers based on their filler.
If they're misplaced and have no business within being in context of the song than yes, but if they're placed appropriately at the right time than no.. They deserve to be they're every bit as much as these multies which you seem to have an overy boner for.
Except they don't. Not even fucking close. I can see all their rhymes upon one look and it's over. Generally speaking, it's all A-to-A, "here's the end of the bar and there's your rhyme, whether it's a multi or not" type shit. If there's a multi, great. Nas has some great multis, in particular. If there isn't, it's not there.
WHY THE FUCK DO YOU KEEP BASING SHIT OFF MULTIES????? Nas is a much more prolific writer than Eminem, Memory Lane, Take it in Blood, hardly use multies but metaphors, creative diction just overall better writing than Eminem's best multies.
If you come across an 02-and-prior Eminem line and you don't see a multi, keep looking. There's something there you're not seeing.
It's official you have a fetish for multies you're basing being lyrically complex off multies rather than metaphors, diction, and whatnot.
He thinks about every word. Jay-Z doesn't even write his shit down,
More power to him.
so it's not surprising his rhymes are far less detailed.
Rhymes yes, overall substance no.
Aesop Rock hardly even uses multis...he just scatters mediocre rhymes in awkward spots.
Again here comes you're overt boner for multies, criticising another artist for not having 10 syllables in one line.
Lupe spends 99% of his time trying to "write around" what it is he's trying to say so that he can make it look more "complex."
And he succeeds at it.
I am proving it.
Well you're doing a terrible job at it.
How so? I'm not racist.
Because you make blatant assumptions for us refusing to accept Eminem as the GOAT because he's white, do you have alzheimers? When I'm not even black, not that it should discredit my argument either way if I was, cause you know that would be an ad hominem.
You, on the other hand, just revealed you think the same way as all the other racist imbeciles who make a point of downplaying Eminem's greatness because they subconsciously are afraid of saying a white guy is the greatest ever in a form of music that is predominantly black.
And you on the other hand brough up this retarded bullshit race argument in the first place, so no. And got all prissy when someone refused to call Eminem the goat, and just made retarded assumptions for them not believeing he is.
What does that say about the intelligence and competence of blacks, they think.
I'm asian buddy not black so fucking fail on all accounts.
The white guy is out-numbered 10,000 to 1 yet he's better than all of them. They're afraid that if they acknowledge he's the best in this craft, the broader implications are that black people are therefore inferior.
Yeah you're DEFINITELY racist.
What they don't even realize is the white guy who makes it to that level in a black art form HAD to be better. He's not better because his race is superior; he's better because he had to put in so much effort honing his craft in order to get noticed and not be booed off the stage.
Wow so you take a lyric off his song and base that as truth, I love how he can only have black people hate on him, yet when I claim that a lot of white kids put him on a pedestal because they can relate to him more, I'm a racist. Double standards ftw.
You can't even stay on point.
"As big as he is today"...again with the obvious reference to "sales" and "popularity," as though that has anything to do with my argument as to why he's the greatest. You see, THIS is "straw man argumentation." It's funny. I had you pegged with my remark about racial self-consciousness
Well you certain did a shite job proving he's a better technical rapper than all the BLACK emcees.
being the driving force behind your, "there are black rappers who are better" remarks. You, on the other hand, assumed I was the type of opponent who would argue "record sales" when discussing Eminem. But I'm not. This isn't the match up you seem to think it is.
Mczu never said black rappers he said rappers in general, than when you called him out assuming that he was referring to exclusively black rappers I called out you on your bullshit. When I said many rappers were on his level you automatically took it as exclusively black rappers, I just ran with it. It is true either way so it doesn't matter.
I
If you know what one is you probably wouldn't have even brought it up. Like I said, metaphors are extremely rare in rap music...to the point of not even really deserving mention when discussing the best rappers.
You're fucking stupid now, metaphors and double entendres are rare in rap music? And I like how you just discredit them based on this arbitary system of punchlines, which coincidentally you're idol specializes in.
When you can say something in a poignant manner with a sophisticated rhyme scheme, that's impressive.
When you're spewing a bunch of punchlines, not so much.
So basically you're still pulling shit out off your ass and giving yourself some false sense of authority on the matter, of whether or not punchlines are important.
I think that's how most people feel, anyway. The whole, "who has the best punchlines?" question only comes up among rap fans. Some rappers don't even do punchlines...ever. They focus on what most people refer to as, "lyricism."
Which you seem to think revolves around multies only... And tons of rappers don't even focus on multies either so that point is moot.
Except they're not. There are some lyricists in other genres who use multis. Multis have an effect on the song sonically.
Who cares what other genres use, why you''re basing you're argument on whether other genres do it or not?
They have an effect on word choice.
How so?
They affect the entire structure of what you write, but if you have mastered the craft, you can make what you are saying lyrically resonate more. Everything is more cohesive.
Makes it sound more complex on the surface, but that's it really.
On the other hand, nobody outside of rap is using punchlines.
Stop using this stupid nobody outside of rap uses punchlines excuse, it's fucking retarded and doesn't mean shit. All you're doing is appealing to tradition with your argument being, "It's done in other genres so that makes it more legit than one that isn't yep."
People who aren't rap fans look at punchlines and roll their eyes...
Who cares what people who aren't rap fans think.
especially because the vast majority of those used in rap are just literal interpretations of idioms and see-spot-run breakdowns of double-entendres. They're like the equivalent to a comedian explaining his own joke. It's like undoing the work others put in in coming up with the expression in the first place.
So now you're trying to simplify the complexity of making a good double entendre into nothing but "I'm hotter than the sun " type punchline? Which is every bit as retarded as me claiming that multies are nothing but gimmicky lines used to make your raps sound hot, because you lack delivery and what not.
And if they go over you're head the first time,
And ultimately, once you've heard the punchline once and it has resonated with you, the impact is over. Now the song can be placed into the dreaded "no replay value" category.
I could say the same for pulling off amazing multies really, so.
And yet he can't do that and rhyme the same way he does in other songs. Nas may be a slightly more creative CONCEPTUALIST, but the execution of his stories isn't better than Eminem's.
Yeah they are, Eminem when telling stories isn't as lyrically complex as his generic freestyle verses of I'll kill you. He sacrifices technicality for substance.
Again, I'll just point to execution. You know why it's easy to make a video of "Kim" (and it's been done many times on Youtube)? Because Eminem painted a vivid picture.
Good luck making videos for these songs.
What kind of stupid as reasoning is this? Hahahahaha, you use videos on youtube to prove a point as to why the song is more vivid?
He doesn't fail in any aspect of rap other than freestyling. Old Eminem could come up with adequate punchlines...not that I really care. Moreover, he had the benefit of his overall wit to craft entertaining filler, even if he wasn't making you go, "Oh, IIIII gettt ittt" with some double entendre/simile.
Yeah he was just rhyming gibberish with multies, like on Infinite where he was just reaching for rhymes. Like "Man I got evidence I'm never dense and I've been clever ever since my residence was hesitant to do some shit that represents". Nothing but rhyming common big words without really saying anything.
No, I was talking about how he crafts his lyrics.
But as far as going over people's heads...um...all the controversy he has caused for people who didn't understand his songs ring a bell? Obviously, he went over plenty of idiots' heads. "Criminal" made the exact opposite point of the one people extrapolated from it.
So wait you're really trying to claim that his misogynistic lyrics went over people's heads? Maybe suburban moms who wouldn't want their kids listening to his music, or gay people with his obvious homophobic lyrics. But no
Dumb It Down is an example of why Lupe is unlistenable. It's only "thought-provoking" because people are trying to break down his "references." That's not good lyricism, it's just pretentious, faux-intellectual blathering.
More like Eminem can't do a song like that or you had to look up the meaning to it online to really appreciate the full meaning of it.
They said they need proof like a vestless chest
They need "proof"...short for "bulletproof," I guess. Horrible line.
Something really stinks, but I Spinks like Leon
The Sphinx is missing a nose, so he can't smell it. Course, why is he even mentioning that "something really stinks" in the first place? Oh, I'll tell you why--because he's forcing a spot for a punchline. And of course, he can't just do that...he has to say, "I Spinks, like Leon"...to refer to the boxer in the lame, generic punchline style we've all grown accustomed to.
[/quote]
So basically you're missing the whole point of the song and just focusing on his punchlines?
Just a couple examples of "dud lines" in this supposedly "amazing" song.
Eminem has countless songs more thought-provoking than that.
Like what how his mom's a drugg addict, while crying about how daddy left me?
So true.
