Lowkey - Fire in the Booth (1XTRA)

[Block]

Typing immense walls of text, while simultaneously tossing personal insults, in attempts to back your ridiculous claim only hinders your cause. as I stated, you didn't outright state it so there's no way for me to prove it. But we both know what you were getting at. I don't need a wall of text and a pseudo-intellectual view of the situation to know I'm correct. You fucked up; deal with it.

Hip hop is black music derived from black cultures. Period. Am I arguing semantic? Possibly. Am I correct? 100%

[EminemBase]

^ No, I was just explaining myself properly, unlike you.

It's not pseudo-intellectualism. There's a big difference between clarity and pretense.

You're a complete moron. Did you not read my quoted text? or did you conveniently forget that. Why would I say the entire foundation of hip-hop is based on rock. Read the words again - I said early hip-hop groups took influence from rock. Which is true. Only you would interpret that as = hip-hop was founded on rock music. If I meant that I would of said that.

YOU fucked up, and can't admit it. You just wanted an argument, got caught out and now tryna flip it. GTFO.

[EminemBase]

Hip hop is black music derived from black cultures. Period. Am I arguing semantic? Possibly. Am I correct? 100%

Again you totally miss the point. And do exactly the ridiculous thing I was making a point of.

Did black people invent words? did they invent rhyming words?... did black people invent poetry?... did they invent rhythm? hip-hop is the sum of all these things. So you may be able to pin down the first solid examples of 'hip-hop' from black-culture...

But the point is, no anything is just from ONE source. It's a total mesh of influence from every angle of art and society. Get a fucking brain, you simpleton.

I know, how about... ACTING IS A WHITE ART - FACT! Is Sam Jackson doing a white art? Or what about wearing suits... I guess white people must of done that first, in terms of global society, statistically. So are black people being white by wearing suits?

It's HUMAN. Attributing race to art, or source is absurd. Grow up.

[Block]

Hip hop is black music derived from black cultures. Period. Am I arguing semantic? Possibly. Am I correct? 100%

Again you totally miss the point. And do exactly the ridiculous thing I was making a point of.

Did black people invent words? did they invent rhyming words?... did black people invent poetry?... did they invent rhythm? hip-hop is the sum of all these things. So you may be able to pin down the first solid examples of 'hip-hop' from black-culture...

But the point is, no anything is just from ONE source. It's a total mesh of influence from every angle of art and society. Get a fucking brain, you simpleton.

I know, how about... ACTING IS A WHITE ART - FACT! Is Sam Jackson doing a white art? Or what about wearing suits... I guess white people must of done that first, in terms of global society, statistically. So are black people being white by wearing suits?

It's HUMAN. Attributing race to art, or source is absurd. Grow up.

Wait, wait, wait... You're telling me to grow up because I refuse to conform to your overtly one dimensional way of thinking; yet you're tossing personal insults mixed with pretentious, half-witted sarcasm, while becoming increasingly angry? Did I read this correctly?

If a person can't keep their personal feelings and insults out of a debate/argument, then they've already lost. You, my friend, have lost.

I stand by what I've said. You may be used to the back and forth banter with the prepubescent posters on this forum, but I assure you I'm not one of them. your petty insults only scratch away the surface of your not-so-well crafted facade. Showing you to be nothing more than a half-educated peasant.

On the topic of hip hop.. I'm not denying you may possess a decent amount of knowledge, but you were very wrong in saying hip hop (in it's purest form) is not black culture. It is. The watered down, diluted mess that we see today is an evolution -or deevolution- depending on how you perceive it. Nothing maintains it's purest form forever.

[EminemBase]

Wait, wait, wait... You're telling me to grow up because I refuse to conform to your overtly one dimensional way of thinking; yet you're tossing personal insults mixed with pretentious, half-witted sarcasm, while becoming increasingly angry? Did I read this correctly?

MY one dimensional way of thinking... You're the one trying to attribute an entire art and set of influences to one race. YOU are the one dimensional thinker.

As for insults, insults are not by definition childish. Even adults get angry, and express anger. And, it's only text angry, if I was really as angry as I'd have my text make see, do you really think I'd be typing as coherently? Or even still in the thread. You fail to think properly, again.

If a person can't keep their personal feelings and insults out of a debate/argument, then they've already lost. You, my friend, have lost.

Total nonsense. And a total cop-out.

If the points being made stand alone REGARDLESS, then they stand alone. Personal insults are an option, and some of the best debaters in the world do it. Total rubbish to say you lose automatically by doing that. It's a choice not a defeat.

On the topic of hip hop.. I'm not denying you may possess a decent amount of knowledge, but you were very wrong in saying hip hop (in it's purest form) is not black culture. It is. The watered down, diluted mess that we see today is an evolution -or deevolution- depending on how you perceive it. Nothing maintains it's purest form forever.

Firstly when did I say hip-hop wasn't primarily popularized by black culture...

Again, you made this up in your head and went forth with it. In my original post, it had NOTHING to do with black / white. It was purely a logical point, pointing out the fact nothing is truly ORIGINAL. The term is slung around.

When, take for example you say the foundation of hip-hop's inital influence was Jazz. Okay, what's one of the foremost, popular instruments used in the creation of Jazz music... ? A saxophone, which was created by... Adolphe Sax, who was? = WHITE.

So, I'm not saying it's white either. My point is, it's not purely black and it's wrong to say "hip-hop is black". So black inner-circles popularized the idea of rhyming over beats yes. But the source(s) from which hip-hop draws from is universal and multi-cultural.

So you can't just say hip-hop is black. Is poetry black? Hip-hop is essentially a form of poetry. You should just stop attributing race to art full-stop. If it was in reverse people would call it racist. Imagine "oh, that's a white art". Hip-hop was POPULARIZED primarily by black people, initially, as it happens. Yes. But the sources from which it draws and everything its built upon is vast.

As is everything. Everything influences everything. Was fuck all to do with black / white, was more to do with the idea of saying X is 100% original or 100% from those people. Which is ridiculous.

[classthe_king]

Hip-Hop was developed in the 70's. The first white rapper wasn't until 1990.

Hip-Hop originated in the black culture, get over it.

[Block]

hip hop is black culture in it's purest form. Period.

And fyi, I'm white.

nothing you've argued is even remotely close to being in contrast to what I've said. I never mentioned the popularization of hip hop or insults being childish. Insulting an 'opponent' is an attempt to gain the upperhand without actually contributing any form of valid argument. I could call you a faggot every post, does that mean that my argument is validated simply by doing so? No. in all actuality it would male me seem as though I am not confident enough in my ability to debate, so I feel as though I need more leverage. That leverage stemming from nonsensical, personal insults that have very little, if anything, to do with the actual situation. Wow, that's basically every argument you've ever gotten into on these forums,.isn't it?

Your monotonous babbling about what you did or didn't say was made void in my very first post when I acknowledged the fact you didn't actually come out and say it; you alluded to it. But now you say hip hop isn't black culture and you're wrong.

[EminemBase]

hip hop is black culture in it's purest form. Period.

No, period.

And fyi, I'm white.

FYI, who cares.

Insulting an 'opponent' is an attempt to gain the upend without actually attributing asnt form of valid argument. I could call you a faggot every post, does that mean that my argument is validated simply by doing so? No. in all actuality it would male me seem as though I am not confident enough in my ability to debate, so I feel as though I need more leverage.

Again, bending the truth to fit your definition. You say that like it's absolute. Not at alllllllll. Many times an insult is just that, an insult.

I argue logical points and back up every one of them with an informed opinion or knowledge. The insults are the icing on the cake, not the substance. I don't use insults for leverage or as the meat on the bones at all, so that's a total cop-out. You can totally ignore them.

In reality, you focusing on the insults is a way to avoid the actual points at hand. 90% of what I say is not insults, proof you're focusing on the smallest aspect to diverge focus. At no point do I try and validate points with insults. I make my points THEN insult. They're separate. I just insult you because I dislike you, simple as that.

That leverage stemming from nonsensical, personal insults that have very little, if anything, to do with the actual situation. Wow, that's basically every argument you've ever gotten into on these forums,.isn't it?

Once again not true. And once again, history is not in your favour.

All of our posts are recorded. So would you like me to go quote chunks of my prior posts and let's analyze how much of them are insults, and how much are points being made... huh?...

And no, almost every argument I've ever gotten into is with smug people like yourself who try and kick them off with ignorance or probing. And, calling them nonsensical doesn't make them so. Haven't seen you tackle any of the true substance of anything I've said.

All you've done is responded again with your basic assertion, blank point. THAT is what we call a failed attempt at leverage, THAT is botched debate and cowardly tactics. Insults are just fun.

Your monotonous babbling about what you did or didn't say was made void in my very first post when I acknowledged the fact you didn't actually come out and say it; you alluded to it. But now you say hip hop isn't black culture and you're wrong.

No, once again. I argued what I didn't ALLUDE to because I didn't allude to it. You THINKING it doesn't make it so. You are just incapable of realizing or accepting you were wrong so press-on. Or maybe you genuinely do think I was alluding that rock was the entire foundation for hip-hop, but you are absolutely wrong. On my dead friend's grave, you are 100% wrong. I was not implying that at all.

And i will happily go through word for word my original post to prove the motive of every word. So bring it on. My point was that every genre borrows from other genres and nothing is truly original, it was nothing to do with the foundation of hip-hop. You've made this up in your head.

You are the one rambling, making stuff up. Get a grip. You are wrong, numerous times over.

[mcZu]

How's acting a white art when the ancient Egyptians --and even the civilizations before that; such as, the Ugarit-- had plays? Ancient Egyptians weren't white, they were brown skinned (some even say black), the Ugarit were Arabic. Acting isn't a white art.

I know that wasn't the point, but I'm just saying... I agree on the fact that you shouldn't atribute an art to a race. Everybody borrows from each other, it is a fact that the African Americans started the actually genre, but it's preposterous to be black and say we own Hip Hop. Hip Hop is the voice of the oppressed, the voice of minority groups. It is in no way 'black music', it's music, period. Music that every human being can make. Even as a culture it is not just black. The culture was founded in the projects, parts of the city filled with poor people, which were predominantely African Americans during that time. But there were more than enough other ethnic minority groups and even white people.

Hip Hop as a culture is based on giving a voice to the oppressed, last time I checked, it aint just black people whom are being oppressed. Especially nowadays, black people are pretty much not that much in the spotlight anymore.

[EminemBase]

^ Totally besides the point with the acting thing. My entire point was the stupidity in saying acting is a white art... that's why I capitalized and emphasized it.

But you've actually proven what I mean nicely.

It may not have ORIGINATED with white people, but on a large scale certainly was popularized by white people. So hip-hop was popularized by black people but the things which define hip-hop are not black inventions. Point is it's a mesh of many cultures, influences etc.

And it's really trivial and... elementary to say X is black. Okay yes, we all known hip-hop how we know it to have came about was popularized by black culture. I have agreed with this numerous times. What I am not agreeing with is that its a black invention, or that its totally original. Or like you say, that it's owned by black culture, which is the implication.

[ShaBruv]

Yo Zu, Embase was saying it as an example of another absurd statement in his opinion

so you didnt need to write all that out


Good read though bruh

[Block]

My favorite artists are white, but that doesn't take away from the fact that hip hop is black culture. Trying to argue anything different is absurd.

numerous walls of text saying the same thing over and over don't change facts.


Hip hop is derivative of black culture stemming from slave songs. (oppression)...


To think differently is to think the sun don't shine.

[EminemBase]

My favorite artists are white, but that doesn't take away from the fact that hip hop is black culture. Trying to argue anything different is absurd.

numerous walls of text saying the same thing over and over don't change facts.

Hip hop is derivative of black culture stemming from slave songs. (oppression)...

To think differently is to think the sun don't shine.

What you are not getting is... you are trying to attribute an absolutist source.

Nothing is 100% original or from one source. So to call it 'black' is as bullshit as calling something popularized by white people 'white'. Without other outside influences which black people took, hip-hop wouldn't be what it is.

Everybody influences everybody. It's fucking retarded to say X is black. It was POPULARIZED by black culture, and in its popularized form it's from there yes. Who the fuck came up with the language to rhyme with, who came up with poetry? Black people did not invent fucking poetry. Poetry is human expression. You can't put a race on human expression. Hip-hop was popularized by black culture.

[Block]

My favorite artists are white, but that doesn't take away from the fact that hip hop is black culture. Trying to argue anything different is absurd.

numerous walls of text saying the same thing over and over don't change facts.

Hip hop is derivative of black culture stemming from slave songs. (oppression)...

To think differently is to think the sun don't shine.

What you are not getting is... you are trying to attribute an absolutist source.

Nothing is 100% original or from one source. So to call it 'black' is as bullshit as calling something popularized by white people 'white'. Without other outside influences which black people took, hip-hop wouldn't be what it is.

Everybody influences everybody. It's fucking retarded to say X is black. It was POPULARIZED by black culture, and in its popularized form it's from there yes. Who the fuck came up with the language to rhyme with, who came up with poetry? Black people did not invent fucking poetry. Poetry is human expression. You can't put a race on human expression. Hip-hop was popularized by black culture.

I'm literally loling at how angry you are and how much you're reaching.

Hip hop is black culture. No so much anymore, since it's much more open.. But, in it's purest form, hip hop is black culture. It doesn't matter who made the saxophone or poetry or language. There is a direct correlation between hip hop and african slave songs. Hip hop stemming from them.


Your semantic argument is futile.

[EminemBase]

I'm literally loling at how angry you are and how much you're reaching.

Hip hop is black culture. No so much anymore, since it's much more open.. But, in it's purest form, hip hop is black culture. It doesn't matter who made the saxophone or poetry or language. There is a direct correlation between hip hop and african slave songs. Hip hop stemming from them.

Your semantic argument is futile.

How am I angry...

So you think you're a prime debater and the best you come up with is a 'u mad' theory how original. If I was angry I'd of closed the forum by now. I'm calm as calm can be.

And I'm not reaching, at all. At no point have I disputed who hip-hop was popularized by. What I disputing with you is the 'absolute' originality in it, and what's futile is saying X race originated anything. It's really babyish, simplistic thinking. A failure to see the bigger picture.

As for your fucking slave theory... where's your basis for that. Or is it more guesswork and conjecture you just make shit up and say it like it's fact. As far as history is concerned hip-hop formed in the 70s, you think it formed in slave times. Yet you offer no proof for this. You, as usual, just assert something like it's a fact. THAT is futile.