Shady/Aftermath could have been the biggest monster ever

[dead prez]

I find it funny you're probably the only person in the whole of New York who doesn't think Biggie was the king of New York. Biggie was the original king of New York. He was called Frank White for a reason.

He called himself Frank White, lol. During his reign there were many mcees who were equal to him in just about every way other than popularity, which you said doesn't translate to being the KONY.

Back when The Source was the gospel of hip hop, they listed Biggie as the King of New York.



That issue was a huge issue for them. Biggie was the talk of New York. He was the MC that all other MC's wanted to be.

Other than the fact that magazines are based entirely ass vapor, but I'll play your game Rolling Stones didn't have R2D listed as the highest NY Hip Hop record either. It's beaten by illmatic, Enter the Wu, and Fear of a Black Planet, apparently they didn't acknowledge him as some 90s god either.

Where did I even say anything about trends? The energy that was around 50 Cent around the time he released GRODT was what made him king of New York. There wasn't a single neighborhood in New York that wasn't talking about him. 50 Cent was always the peoples champ, but after that he put rap in a complete choke-hold. 50 Cent put NY at the forefront of hip hop again.

I though popularity doesn't equate to being the KONY?

Nope. It's debatable. One song doesn't make someone king. We're never been about popularity, we're New York, not the South, we have real hip hop culture.

Why are you hating on the south, for the hell is your issue?

Blueprint 3 was lambasted here, just because 'Empire State of mind' was a fucking ridiculous song that was boosted with the Yankees win of the World Series (finally!) doesn't make Hov king again, everyone deep down knows that it was Ms.Keys that made that song.

And If I ruled the World was Lauryn Hill's song, not Nas'. I mean really

Its that hook that made it it the anthem. Overall the song doesn't compare to Sinatra's at all.

Nothing wrong with that at all.

Err, no. However, I should have worded that different. If tickets were reasonably priced, then Jay would easily sell out the slowest. Nas has a much heavier following than Jay in New York. Hov would have the BK and 'Hattan, but all of Queens, Harlem, The X and Stat would spread to Nas easily.

What? Nas is probably the least popular out of the big five (Pac/Big/Em/Jay/Nas), a lot of people who don't even follow Hip Hop would recognize who Jay is, Nas on the other hand has struggled to stay relevant.]

[stillmatic]

He called himself Frank White, lol. During his reign there were many mcees who were equal to him in just about every way other than popularity, which you said doesn't translate to being the KONY.

Yes, there were other MC's that were on his level in terms of quality, like Nas and Rae/Ghostface, but none of them had the aura of a Biggie. That is, the attention he would draw at a barbershop or park ball game whenever his name was brought up. That is what made him Frank White.

Other than the fact that magazines are based entirely ass vapor, but I'll play your game Rolling Stones didn't have R2D listed as the highest NY Hip Hop record either. It's beaten by illmatic, Enter the Wu, and Fear of a Black Planet, apparently they didn't acknowledge him as some 90s god either.

WTF? Who gives a shit about Rolling Stone. I wouldn't use that to wipe my shit. What fucking relevance do they have with hip hop? The Source was the gospel of hip hop. If we were unsure over something, then The Source's word was always what we went by. This was common knowledge. Biggie spoke of himself as Frank White, others started calling him as the King of New York, then when The Source put him on their legendary cover and labeled him as the King of NY, it was done and dusted. Big had the crown.

I though popularity doesn't equate to being the KONY?

It doesn't. Just because Fif had the most energy surrounding him doesn't mean he was the most popular. There was a time when Puffy was selling like crazy, but he had no energy in the NY tunnel, thus he was never king. There's a big difference between energy and popularity.

]Why are you hating on the south, for the hell is your issue?

I'm not hating on them. I'm just stating a fact. The South does not have real hip hop culture.

And If I ruled the World was Lauryn Hill's song, not Nas'. I mean really

No. If I ruled the world was still Nas' song, he was just outshined on it by Lauryn Hill. Are you seriously trying to playdown Nas' verses on that album and compare them to Hov's pretty average verses on 'Empire State'? Nas had great verses on his song, it's just that Lauryn's elegance stole the show. People in the tunnel still remember Nas' verses on his song, whereas Hov's song is ALL about that Ms. Keys hook.

What? Nas is probably the least popular out of the big five (Pac/Big/Em/Jay/Nas), a lot of people who don't even follow Hip Hop would recognize who Jay is, Nas on the other hand has struggled to stay relevant.

Again, I think we're speaking different crowds. I don't give a fuck who outside of hip hop knows Jay-Z. NY's hip hop culture has never been about that. Nas is and will always be at the top of the New York rap scene. He will always be relevant. This is about hip hop culture, not pop culture. And in this area, Nas tops Jay, and has for the last 10 years, and outside of a 2-3 year period, did so before that as well.

I think you're taking too much of what others are saying/doing affect you. Don't forget.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6B6k4sbkuX8

[dead prez]

Yes, there were other MC's that were on his level in terms of quality, like Nas and Rae/Ghostface, but none of them had the aura of a Biggie.

I don't even know what this is supposed to mean, honestly.

That is, the attention he would draw at a barbershop or park ball game whenever his name was brought up. That is what made him Frank White.

So I don't want to put words in your mouth, but are you insinuating that Biggie was the only rapper at the time to balance street appeal (hardcore hip hop) with winning grammy's?

WTF? Who gives a shit about Rolling Stone. I wouldn't use that to wipe my shit. What fucking relevance do they have with hip hop? The Source was the gospel of hip hop. If we were unsure over something, then The Source's word was always what we went by.

I only used that example to show you that it's an opinion, and by virtue of it being an opinion it's about as reputable as anybody else's opinion. Well people who know what they're talking about anyway.

This was common knowledge. Biggie spoke of himself as Frank White, others started calling him as the King of New York, then when The Source put him on their legendary cover and labeled him as the King of NY, it was done and dusted. Big had the crown.

I hate to Godwin, but I could easily make a case for Lil Wayne being the best rapper alive.

Lil Wayne claims he's the best rappe alive
Magazines start questioning whether it's true or not
People start proclaiming him as best rapper alive.

It doesn't. Just because Fif had the most energy surrounding him doesn't mean he was the most popular. There was a time when Puffy was selling like crazy, but he had no energy in the NY tunnel, thus he was never king. There's a big difference between energy and popularity.

I'm sorry but what do you mean by energy? Energy on the mic? Charisma, like could you clarifiy?

I'm not hating on them. I'm just stating a fact. The South does not have real hip hop culture.

Goodie Mob, Ugk, Outkast, Scarface, etc. Do you really want me to cite a ton of Souther rappers that say otherwise.

No. If I ruled the world was still Nas' song, he was just outshined on it by Lauryn Hill. Are you seriously trying to playdown Nas' verses on that album and compare them to Hov's pretty average verses on 'Empire State'? Nas had great verses on his song, it's just that Lauryn's elegance stole the show. People in the tunnel still remember Nas' verses on his song, whereas Hov's song is ALL about that Ms. Keys hook.

No I was just using that as an example to show you that in the end, hooks are what people are going to ultimately remember especially if it's catchy. And Hov's 3rd verse was dope, why you hating? lol

Again, I think we're speaking different crowds. I don't give a fuck who outside of hip hop knows Jay-Z. NY's hip hop culture has never been about that. Nas is and will always be at the top of the New York rap scene. He will always be relevant. This is about hip hop culture, not pop culture. And in this area, Nas tops Jay, and has for the last 10 years, and outside of a 2-3 year period, did so before that as well.

I think you're taking too much of what others are saying/doing affect you. Don't forget.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6B6k4sbkuX8

I'm sorry but you're contradicting yourself in this argument. Biggie is the king when lot's of non hip hop fans can cite him as one, and when I use this argument for Jay it's irrelevant?

[stillmatic]

I don't even know what this is supposed to mean, honestly.

Aura means the reaction of people whenever this person is seen, heard or talked about. Nas, Rae and Ghost had great quality, they were recognized as potential candidates for king of NY. But, the difference between them and Big was that Biggie had more than just his songs, and I'm not talking about businesses or anything like that, I'm talking about that X factor, that is he had something about him that made people talk. You can't be the King of NY just because of the quality of your material alone, you needed to have that aura. I could have easily used the word swagger, but that word is stupid as fuck.

So I don't want to put words in your mouth, but are you insinuating that Biggie was the only rapper at the time to balance street appeal (hardcore hip hop) with winning grammy's?

No. I don't give a fuck about the Grammys. If we're talking about balance, then Biggie was the only n1gga in NY at the time who had appeal in the neighborhoods, appeal in the tunnel (clubs) and appeal in the talking points (barbershops/parks). No one had it a better balance than he did.

I only used that example to show you that it's an opinion, and by virtue of it being an opinion it's about as reputable as anybody else's opinion. Well people who know what they're talking about anyway.

Homie there's a difference in the type of opinion. The Source has credibility in hip hop, it was our gospel. Rolling Stone has no credibility in hip hop. It is nothing. It's just a magazine, whereas The Source was more. Rappers would KILL to be mentioned in the Unsigned Hype column on The Source. The Source has built careers more than any company, any manager, any producer or anyone else in hip hop.

I hate to Godwin, but I could easily make a case for Lil Wayne being the best rapper alive.

Lil Wayne claims he's the best rappe alive
Magazines start questioning whether it's true or not
People start proclaiming him as best rapper alive.

Get back to me when reputable sources started labeling Wayne a the best rapper alive. We don't believe you, you need more people.

Goodie Mob, Ugk, Outkast, Scarface, etc. Do you really want me to cite a ton of Souther rappers that say otherwise.

This is a topic for another day. Fwiw. though, I've got nothing but love for those cats you listed.

No I was just using that as an example to show you that in the end, hooks are what people are going to ultimately remember especially if it's catchy. And Hov's 3rd verse was dope, why you hating? lol

Not necessarily. It isn't just about the hook. A great song is a great song nonetheless. Let me use examples of other great rap songs. Such as from the early days of 'Rappers Delight' to hip hop's golden age with songs like 'Hail Mary' to the early 2000's songs like 'Lose Yourself' to as recent as Joells 'Hip Hop'. All these songs have very easily reconcilable hooks to them. However, there's so much more to them than just the hooks. Ask 10 different people what they think about when this song comes on, and not all of them will talk about their hooks, they'll talk about certain lines and quotes. Empire State of Mind, not a chance. It's all about Ms.Keys' hook.

I'm sorry but you're contradicting yourself in this argument. Biggie is the king when lot's of non hip hop fans can cite him as one, and when I use this argument for Jay it's irrelevant?

Where have I said at all that Biggie is king because lots of non hip hop fans have cited him as one? Not once in any of my comments have I used the general public or pop culture or general perception to aid my argument at all. The only time I have even brought them up is in reply to your original mention of them.

[dead prez]

Aura means the reaction of people whenever this person is seen, heard or talked about. Nas, Rae and Ghost had great quality, they were recognized as potential candidates for king of NY. But, the difference between them and Big was that Biggie had more than just his songs, and I'm not talking about businesses or anything like that, I'm talking about that X factor, that is he had something about him that made people talk. You can't be the King of NY just because of the quality of your material alone, you needed to have that aura. I could have easily used the word swagger, but that word is stupid as fuck.

Charisma basically? Really the only aura he had was being able to make radio friendly tracks while being praised by hip hop heads. Give Nas', Biggie's fame and I'm sure he'd be in the same spot.

No. I don't give a fuck about the Grammys. If we're talking about balance, then Biggie was the only n1gga in NY at the time who had appeal in the neighborhoods, appeal in the tunnel (clubs) and appeal in the talking points (barbershops/parks). No one had it a better balance than he did.

Nas was definitely appealing to all types of audiences, well the people who knew him anyway. The reason Biggie's getting all this praise about balance and being a skilled mc, was because of how many fans he had.

Homie there's a difference in the type of opinion. The Source has credibility in hip hop, it was our gospel. Rolling Stone has no credibility in hip hop. It is nothing. It's just a magazine, whereas The Source was more. Rappers would KILL to be mentioned in the Unsigned Hype column on The Source. The Source has built careers more than any company, any manager, any producer or anyone else in hip hop.

You know I could have easily pointed out the flaw in your argument that your appealing to authority to try and prove that Biggie was the King of NY, by citing a magazine. I mean it's cool that The Source liked him, and all but trying to formulate your opinion around that isn't really wise.

I'm also pretty sure he's beaten by other Hip Hop artists in certain lists in The Source.

Get back to me when reputable sources started labeling Wayne a the best rapper alive. We don't believe you, you need more people.

What do you mean by reputable? And I never said they outright claimed he was the "Best Rapper Alive", but you're really telling me you haven't seen various magazines, questioning whether it's true or not? And by no means do I think he's the best alive either, but you have to be in denial, if you don't think there are quite a few people who believe that. (Sad I know)

Not necessarily. It isn't just about the hook. A great song is a great song nonetheless. Let me use examples of other great rap songs. Such as from the early days of 'Rappers Delight' to hip hop's golden age with songs like 'Hail Mary' to the early 2000's songs like 'Lose Yourself' to as recent as Joells 'Hip Hop'. All these songs have very easily reconcilable hooks to them. However, there's so much more to them than just the hooks. Ask 10 different people what they think about when this song comes on, and not all of them will talk about their hooks, they'll talk about certain lines and quotes. Empire State of Mind, not a chance. It's all about Ms.Keys' hook.

Well I think Empire State of Mind was a good song, tbh. And yes if the song is really good than, of course people are going to remember more than just the hook, but it's the hook that really sticks in your mind. And is most likely what tons of teeny boppers recite the most out of the song, especially if it's catchy, regardless of how good the song is.

Even a song like The World is yours (one of Nas' best and most lyrical songs), most people like to recite the hook on that, and remember it by his "Out for presidents to represent me", line.

Where have I said at all that Biggie is king because lots of non hip hop fans have cited him as one? Not once in any of my comments have I used the general public or pop culture or general perception to aid my argument at all. The only time I have even brought them up is in reply to your original mention of them.

Well I might have got confused, I'm not trying to misconstrue what you're saying on purpose. But you're trying to claim that Nas is more relevant than Jay in the "Hip Hop" crowd, but yet when we're discussing Biggie it reverts back to the "He appealls to everyone crowd".

[stillmatic]

Charisma basically? Really the only aura he had was being able to make radio friendly tracks while being praised by hip hop heads. Give Nas', Biggie's fame and I'm sure he'd be in the same spot.

Charisma is more to do with personality in my opinion, it comes out when the person speaks, performs or is just generally seen. Aura is more associated with just all round presence. Biggie had that, that is whenever he was just brought up, it would incite a lot of conversation and discussion.

Nas was definitely appealing to all types of audiences, well the people who knew him anyway. The reason Biggie's getting all this praise about balance and being a skilled mc, was because of how many fans he had.

He wasn't really man. Everyone knows Nas is my favourite rapper of all time, but during the Illmatic period, Nas didn't have that aura about him, Biggie did. Nas, Ghost and Rae had their music, that's where it started and that's where it finished.

The only other NY rapper than had an aura, personality and charisma that could match Biggie at the time was ODB, Method Man and LL Cool J. The difference here is that they were not close to the quality of a Biggie though.

You know I could have easily pointed out the flaw in your argument that your appealing to authority to try and prove that Biggie was the King of NY, by citing a magazine. I mean it's cool that The Source liked him, and all but trying to formulate your opinion around that isn't really wise.

Again, I think our major disagreeing point is you underrating The Source, or me overrating the word of The Source. It just depends on which side of the fence you sit on. For me, The Source was a gospel, not a magazine.

What do you mean by reputable? And I never said they outright claimed he was the "Best Rapper Alive", but you're really telling me you haven't seen various magazines, questioning whether it's true or not? And by no means do I think he's the best alive either, but you have to be in denial, if you don't think there are quite a few people who believe that. (Sad I know)

There's no magazine that will ever have the credibility of The Source. As for Wayne, I don't doubt at all that a lot of people think he's the best rapper alive, so I dunno what you're talking about me being in denial over it.

Well I think Empire State of Mind was a good song, tbh. And yes if the song is really good than, of course people are going to remember more than just the hook, but it's the hook that really sticks in your mind. And is most likely what tons of teeny boppers recite the most out of the song, especially if it's catchy, regardless of how good the song is.

I think Empire State of Mind is a great song too, I was definitely rocking it to it almost every day when it was released, and was definitely rocking to it when The Yankees' were in the deep stages of the World Series. I just don't think it's a real Jay-Z record. That is if Jay-Z wasn't on the song, it wouldn't lose any of its mainstream appeal. That's what makes a record for me. Now imagine a song like 'Love the way you lie', very similar with a very catchy hook. If Eminem wasn't on that song, you think it would really have them same impact? That is, do you REALLY think the song would be just as big without those 3 Eminem verses? Yes, LTWYL is a pretty average song overall, but it's big because of Eminem just as much as Rihanna. I don't think the same of 'Empire State'.

Well I might have got confused, I'm not trying to misconstrue what you're saying on purpose. But you're trying to claim that Nas is more relevant than Jay in the "Hip Hop" crowd, but yet when we're discussing Biggie it reverts back to the "He appealls to everyone crowd".

I think I'm confusing you by not making my opinion clear.

I don't really care if Biggie appealed to everyone, when I was talking about Biggie's musical balance, I was still talking about Biggie and his relationship with the New York hip hop culture. I was speaking about his music being able to be played everywhere in the New York hip hop scene. I am not referring to pop culture at all, I could care less for it. Nas and Wu were rarely played in the tunnel, they didn't have tunnel banging music like Biggie did (until a little on). At the time, their music was exactly that, at face value it was what you heard. Biggie had a little bit more relate able music, which provided different escapes and perspectives for listeners.

Also, we've gone this far and I still haven't asked you, rather than questioning my notion that Biggie was the original King of NY, why don't you tell me who you think it was so I can start going at your posts and make myself feel better!

I'll show you my cards.

1994-1997: Biggie was king. The original.
1997-1999: Nas was king. The long lasting effect of It was written and Firm album elevated him to king status.
1999-2001: Jay-Z was king almost by default after Nas' fell with his two 1999 albums. Prodigy is second, but is unlucky he doesn't have the impact on overall NY.
2001-2003: Nas was king after the hugely powerful comeback with Stillmatic.
2003-2007: 50 Cent was king. He redefined the word King of NY as for the first time the people were genuinely responsible for the throne being passed.
2007-2011: Throne is practically vacant. 50 lost the crown after 'Curtis' album. He and Nas are now even as the king of NY, but both are completely different. Nas is there because of his music and everlasting consistency, whereas 50 is there as much for personal rise and return to his roots than his music.

[stillmatic]

Sorry to FreeSpeech as well for completely shifting the topic of his thread elsewhere too lol.

[FreeSpeech]

Sorry to FreeSpeech as well for completely shifting the topic of his thread elsewhere too lol.

To get back on track...
BOOM.

It's sad these guys will never work on the same team again

[Rash J]

Now picture this:
-Dre drops Detox years ago, which I feel would have made it much better
-Game and 50 keep making songs like Hate It Or Love It and How We Do
-A sober Eminem only improves after TES
-Dre keeps working with 50, he improves from GRODT
-Dre keeps working with Game
-D12 drops a hot 3rd album, with Em and Proof
-We keep getting good stuff from Obie and G-Unit

[dead prez]

Charisma is more to do with personality in my opinion, it comes out when the person speaks, performs or is just generally seen. Aura is more associated with just all round presence. Biggie had that, that is whenever he was just brought up, it would incite a lot of conversation and discussion.

Even Lil Wayne has charisma, if you want to go there.

He wasn't really man. Everyone knows Nas is my favourite rapper of all time, but during the Illmatic period, Nas didn't have that aura about him, Biggie did. Nas, Ghost and Rae had their music, that's where it started and that's where it finished.

The Wu did, their debut went platinum a year before Biggie even dropped. And in the 90s, there is no common denominator between what makes a radio friendly track and what doesn't.

The only other NY rapper than had an aura, personality and charisma that could match Biggie at the time was ODB, Method Man and LL Cool J. The difference here is that they were not close to the quality of a Biggie though.

Honestly what was so charismatic about Biggie that you would say he's close to ODB and Methodman personality wise?

Again, I think our major disagreeing point is you underrating The Source, or me overrating the word of The Source. It just depends on which side of the fence you sit on. For me, The Source was a gospel, not a magazine.

Fair enough, I'm just saying as respectable as it may have been, it's STILL somebody else's opinion, and their opinion shouldn't really influence yours on what is and what isn't.

There's no magazine that will ever have the credibility of The Source. As for Wayne, I don't doubt at all that a lot of people think he's the best rapper alive, so I dunno what you're talking about me being in denial over it.

I only brought that up to show you that the flaw in your argument, trying to say that many people hail him as the King of Ny, when a ton of people hail Lil Wayne as the best rapper alive, as well. The only difference was that Biggie was a much more respectable mc, and saying that wouldn't get you smacked by someone who knows their Hip Hop.

I think Empire State of Mind is a great song too, I was definitely rocking it to it almost every day when it was released, and was definitely rocking to it when The Yankees' were in the deep stages of the World Series. I just don't think it's a real Jay-Z record. That is if Jay-Z wasn't on the song, it wouldn't lose any of its mainstream appeal.

Well it's our anthem over here, and everybody quotes a ton of Jay lines in that song. Perhaps it has more to do with NY Pride, rather than them being good lyrics, but nonetheless that doesn't detract from people reciting Jay's lines as well, and refutes your point that he had a forgettable mic performance.

That's what makes a record for me. Now imagine a song like 'Love the way you lie', very similar with a very catchy hook. If Eminem wasn't on that song, you think it would really have them same impact? That is, do you REALLY think the song would be just as big without those 3 Eminem verses?

Yes, personally I think Eminem's poop now, but that's an argument I'd rather not get into.

I brought up the catchy hook in The World is yours, and despite it being one of Nas' best songs, lot's of people like to quote "the Dead Presidents" line.

Or Shook ones part II's hook, although I do know it was a few quotables as well.

I think I'm confusing you by not making my opinion clear.

I don't really care if Biggie appealed to everyone, when I was talking about Biggie's musical balance, I was still talking about Biggie and his relationship with the New York hip hop culture. I was speaking about his music being able to be played everywhere in the New York hip hop scene. I am not referring to pop culture at all, I could care less for it.

So basically his mainstream appeal being able to balance it with hardcore hip hop fans as well?

Nas and Wu were rarely played in the tunnel, they didn't have tunnel banging music like Biggie did (until a little on). At the time, their music was exactly that, at face value it was what you heard. Biggie had a little bit more relate able music, which provided different escapes and perspectives for listeners.

Protect Ya Neck, Criminology, If I ruled The World.

Also, we've gone this far and I still haven't asked you, rather than questioning my notion that Biggie was the original King of NY, why don't you tell me who you think it was so I can start going at your posts and make myself feel better!

I don't believe that there was a true king at the time as there were so many mcs with albums that rivaled Big's or flat out bested his.

A slew of albums that are on the same level or as R2D are

Enter the Wu
Illmatic
The Main Ingredient
Blackmoon
Word...Life
Sun Rises in the East
Stress: The Extinction Agenda
The Infamous
Liquid Swords
OB4CL
Reasonable Doubt

all from NY

I'll show you my cards.

Again I don't think there was a king, seing as how NY was filled with mcs who were just as good or equal to him at the time he was alive.

Once Big passed though, I guess I'll hand it to Ghostface, I mean the guy's discography is insane. Playing major parts in Enter the Wu and Wu forever, as well as in OB4CL and Ironman. Than when Jay and Nas were fighting for the crown of NY he dropped Supreme Clientele, which I personally think is better than both Stillmatic and Blueprint and continued to drop quality albums post 2000 when all other Wu members were a shadow of their former selves.

I will say that Prodigy post 00 is pretty much poop though.

[DanWS]

-A sober Eminem only improves after TES

This alone is win.

To be honest, I'm not sure if this would have been possible. Was thinking about it the other day.

[DanWS]

Also, as much as Eminem had a sharp decline, in my opinion so did 50. The Massacre was an awful album. Really, even to this day The Massacre is 50's worst ever, and coming after GRODT which is now often cited as a classic, that is just as much a drop as Eminem had from TES to Encore. 50 Cent had THE biggest buzz in hip-hop history after he came out with GRODT. Seriously, I think his buzz even eclipsed Biggie's after Ready To Die. But rather than doing what Eminem managed to do and maintain his levels for 3 consecutive albums, 50 failed with his 2nd. After that his legacy dimished more and more and more.

[FreeSpeech]

Also, as much as Eminem had a sharp decline, in my opinion so did 50. The Massacre was an awful album. Really, even to this day The Massacre is 50's worst ever, and coming after GRODT which is now often cited as a classic, that is just as much a drop as Eminem had from TES to Encore. 50 Cent had THE biggest buzz in hip-hop history after he came out with GRODT. Seriously, I think his buzz even eclipsed Biggie's after Ready To Die. But rather than doing what Eminem managed to do and maintain his levels for 3 consecutive albums, 50 failed with his 2nd. After that his legacy dimished more and more and more.

Yeah, I like Massacre, it has some dope songs, but it was a big fall off. I think it had to do with him not having Dre and Em be as involved.

And I do think Em could have improved or at least maintained the level he was at on TES.

[j04370859]

Also, as much as Eminem had a sharp decline, in my opinion so did 50. The Massacre was an awful album. Really, even to this day The Massacre is 50's worst ever, and coming after GRODT which is now often cited as a classic, that is just as much a drop as Eminem had from TES to Encore. 50 Cent had THE biggest buzz in hip-hop history after he came out with GRODT. Seriously, I think his buzz even eclipsed Biggie's after Ready To Die. But rather than doing what Eminem managed to do and maintain his levels for 3 consecutive albums, 50 failed with his 2nd. After that his legacy dimished more and more and more.

Massacre his worst ever? Have you listened to that shitty Curtis album cause that's his worse ever. Massacre wasn't even that bad to be honest even today people see how good it was are now saying that it was his last good work besides his soundtrack album which is the truth really he was in his prime from 1999-2005 after that he really went downhill.

[DanWS]

Also, as much as Eminem had a sharp decline, in my opinion so did 50. The Massacre was an awful album. Really, even to this day The Massacre is 50's worst ever, and coming after GRODT which is now often cited as a classic, that is just as much a drop as Eminem had from TES to Encore. 50 Cent had THE biggest buzz in hip-hop history after he came out with GRODT. Seriously, I think his buzz even eclipsed Biggie's after Ready To Die. But rather than doing what Eminem managed to do and maintain his levels for 3 consecutive albums, 50 failed with his 2nd. After that his legacy dimished more and more and more.

Massacre his worst ever? Have you listened to that shitty Curtis album cause that's his worse ever. Massacre wasn't even that bad to be honest even today people see how good it was are now saying that it was his last good work besides his soundtrack album which is the truth really he was in his prime from 1999-2005 after that he really went downhill.

I've listened to all his major studio albums and I think The Massacre is his worst by a fair margin. I think Curtis is better. Even when he was promoting his last album BISD he did an interview here with MTV UK where he went through all his previous albums and The Massacre is the only one he criticised, saying that he "over-wrote" it and tried to fit too much into it. Not that that means The Massacre is undeniably his worst album, but to me it does say a lot that it was the one he chose to criticise.