Let's Call Pac What He Really Was

[VenomBlackViper]

Lets call Pac what he really was





































































































a bald guy who died too early to discover mens hair club.

[stillmatic]

Whilst we're on the subject, and we know the thread is pretty stupid, lets make a discussion out of it.

Which rappers are actually bald and which ones just shave their head?

DMX is bald, it's easy to notice so he just shaves his head. Are you sure Tupac was bald? I think he just shaved his head. Proof was bald. I've never seen Big L without a hat or a beanie on, so I suspect he might have been bald. Fat Joe is ...?

[Satire]

Whilst we're on the subject, and we know the thread is pretty stupid, lets make a discussion out of it.

Which rappers are actually bald and which ones just shave their head?

DMX is bald, it's easy to notice so he just shaves his head. Are you sure Tupac was bald? I think he just shaved his head. Proof was bald. I've never seen Big L without a hat or a beanie on, so I suspect he might have been bald. Fat Joe is ...?

[Block]

He was Lil Wayne's work ethic, with Jay-z's Limited vocabulary and about as many different flows as Kanye (1)...tough to say....a pioneer for Hip Hop but most of his albums I listened to once and was bored....only ones I gave multiple listens were AEOM and MATW

Pioneer? He wasn't even close to that. I'm glad you said that, though, because a lot of people consider him that, and it allows me to elaborate on my thoughts here. There was nothing unique about Pac except for his charisma. Even then, DMX and Will Smith outshined him HARD in that aspect. What about NWA, Onyx, DMX, LL, Beastie Boys, Will Smith? Those are Pioneers.

Pac wasn't a trend setter. He was a follower. He said nothing new. The ONLY reason he is held to such high esteem is because of how he died. Also, if it were just him that died and not BIG, as well, I don't think he'd be held on such a high pedestal.

Pac is probably THE single most overrated rapper in the history of hip hop.

By the way, at the time--and now, as well--DMX > Tupac.

[stillmatic]

Okay lets do this.

Pioneer? He wasn't even close to that. I'm glad you said that, though, because a lot of people consider him that, and it allows me to elaborate on my thoughts here. There was nothing unique about Pac except for his charisma. Even then, DMX and Will Smith outshined him HARD in that aspect. What about NWA, Onyx, DMX, LL, Beastie Boys, Will Smith? Those are Pioneers.

No he wasn't a pioneer in the true sense of the word. But he was a pioneer in terms of a lot of the black community taking heed to his words and changing their way of life. Artists like Public Enemy had the power to get people to listen, but Tupac had the power to make people act. A hip hop pioneer, no he was not.

WTF are you talking about DMX being a pioneer as well. DMX came out after Tupac died. You speak as if the Dark Man came out in the 80's or some shit.

Pac wasn't a trend setter. He was a follower. He said nothing new. The ONLY reason he is held to such high esteem is because of how he died. Also, if it were just him that died and not BIG, as well, I don't think he'd be held on such a high pedestal.

Lol. The way you're speaking is he stole others styles and ran with it. No, Tupac spoke about things he saw and he had more credibility in regards to these things than any other rapper out, pioneer or not, he was raised by Mutulu Shakur for fucks sake.

If you genuinely believe the only reason he's held in a high esteem is because of how he died, you're clearly mistaken. He was already arguably the biggest and most recognizable voice in the black community when he was alive as well as being the biggest artist in hip hop, so to suggest he only made it big after he died is silly.

Pac is probably THE single most overrated rapper in the history of hip hop.

Your opinion, so I won't bother arguing it.

By the way, at the time--and now, as well--DMX > Tupac.

Again, wtf is this. DMX burst onto the scene after Tupac died. Do you know what you're talking about? DMX himself wouldn't say he was better than Tupac either if you've ever listened to his interviews or been to his shows when he speaks about Tupac.

[Block]

Okay, awesome. Someone who's not an idiot, for a change.

No he wasn't a pioneer in the true sense of the word. But he was a pioneer in terms of a lot of the black community taking heed to his words and changing their way of life. Artists like Public Enemy had the power to get people to listen, but Tupac had the power to make people act. A hip hop pioneer, no he was not.

Atleast we agree that he wasn't a pioneer in Hip Hop. I also agree that he had the power to make people listen to him (charismatic). But did he use it? Not really. To sell records, maybe. Don't get me wrong, I understand he was an activist and was raise in and around the Black Panthers. I understand all that. But how did he change any sort of lives when he was constantly preaching violence in his songs? As previously stated in another post in this thread, 99% of his songs were "THUG LIFE N.IGGA GUNS GUNS GUNS I SHOOT EM UP!!" If we're going to be critical and judge purely based on his music, he changed lives... For the worse.

On the same coin, different side; Tupac was a known racist. For as intelligent as many uneducated blacks deemed him to be, he was very, very ignorant. And for as many blacks that praised him, there was (and still is) atleast one that thought of him as an abomination to the black community for the fact he was constantly preaching violence. He was a hypocrite beyond measure. He would preach violence in his songs and then try to tell people not to do it? What about 'practice what you preach'?

WTF are you talking about DMX being a pioneer as well. DMX came out after Tupac died. You speak as if the Dark Man came out in the 80's or some shit

DMX was in the source in 90 or 91. I don't quite remember. He was signed with Columbia or Sony in 1992, though. I know that for a fact. He was around way before 'Pac was ever heard of in the rap game.

Lol. The way you're speaking is he stole others styles and ran with it. No, Tupac spoke about things he saw and he had more credibility in regards to these things than any other rapper out, pioneer or not, he was raised by Mutulu Shakur for fucks sake.

Nah, I'm not saying he bit anybody. I'm just saying that people tend to give him WAY too much credit for his style of music. He was doing the same thing every other gangster rapper was doing at that time. And to be perfectly honest with you, he didn't do it all that well. Also, Will Smith was bigger than 'Pac when Pac died.

I'll give you the latter part of your paragraph, though. Atleast he LIVED what he was writing about. That's admirable.

If you genuinely believe the only reason he's held in a high esteem is because of how he died, you're clearly mistaken. He was already arguably the biggest and most recognizable voice in the black community when he was alive as well as being the biggest artist in hip hop, so to suggest he only made it big after he died is silly.

Biggest and most recognized, or most infamous and obnoxious? It depends on how you percieve it.

Also, I'm not saying he only made it big after he died. What I'm saying is: He blew up tenfold after he died. And now, 15 years later, people tend to overrate his involvement in the Hip Hop community. There were other artists around at the time of his death who were doing just as much as him, with just as much talent, if not more.

Again, wtf is this. DMX burst onto the scene after Tupac died. Do you know what you're talking about? DMX himself wouldn't say he was better than Tupac either if you've ever listened to his interviews or been to his shows when he speaks about Tupac.

I already adressed the first half of this. As for the second half: Of course DMX wouldn't claim to be bigger than Pac. No artist who is internationally recognized would do that. It's a stigma that we've put on his name (along with biggie's) that they are somehow rap legends; Gods of the genre; when in reality, neither one of them were ground breaking. And don't get me wrong. I absolutely love Biggie. I love his music to this day, but a spade is a spade. The stigma that surrounds their names is what makes people fear talking about them in any form of ill-light. Well, that should change.

[stillmatic]

Okay, awesome. Someone who's not an idiot, for a change.

One love. IYour posts are pretty entertaining btw. The shit against the redneck trio (like the one in your sig) is always funny as shit.

I also agree that he had the power to make people listen to him (charismatic). But did he use it? Not really. To sell records, maybe. Don't get me wrong, I understand he was an activist and was raise in and around the Black Panthers. I understand all that. But how did he change any sort of lives when he was constantly preaching violence in his songs? As previously stated in another post in this thread, 99% of his songs were "THUG LIFE N.IGGA GUNS GUNS GUNS I SHOOT EM UP!!" If we're going to be critical and judge purely based on his music, he changed lives... For the worse.

Come on maaaaaaaan! I can't believe you just said that! Of course he used his power for good. I've got a lot of love for influential and powerful rappers (without mentioning names because it's another argument for another day) but I can acknowledge that they aren't and haven't used their power for good. But TUPAC? No way homie. If I could exaggerate without real facts, I would say Tupac changed millions of lives. It sounds silly when I say it, but I think I really believe it. Because everywhere I've gone, I've seen dozens of peoples or head about hundreds of others who's lives Tupac touched. He was NEVER about selling records.

I think you don't quite understand his "Thug Life" persona either. In fact I'm gonna stop this debate here, not because it's stupid or there's no point, but because there's an easier way to maybe go through this if you want to take 90 minutes. I'm simply gonna tell you here right now to watch Tupac Resurrection. I'm telling you this because I've met and spoken to people of all types of races and ages who were not Tupac fans or had ever heard of him or completely hated him, and they watched that documentary and it completely flipped their opinion of him. Tupac Resurrection is no small ass film, it was a Oscar nominated documentary, it's legit. It explains everything about him, about his rise, about thug life, about his big mouth and imperfections ("hypocrisy"), his message, his relevance, his involvement and his legacy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiESngT4HI

If you've seen it, then I'm just gonna scratch my head for a few minutes.

[Block]

Dude, you're missing my point. I'm looking at this from a purely hip hop perspective. I know the things he was involved with (and I've seen that documentary). But he was also very hypocritical and he was very racist. That's not the point, though. My point is about how his legacy in hip hop is so exaggerated by people. He wasn't "The best rapper ever." Neither was Biggie. That's all I'm saying.

I mean, we could argue for hours about how many lives he's changed, since that's an entirely baseless argument without any substantiating proof for either side. We could also debate about other people in hip hop who have been extremely influential in their cultures. Wyclef Jean, for example. That's not my point, though. My argument is purely hip hop. Not his 'extracurricular activities', lol.

Also, for a white person to praise him (which is done out of ignorance and/or lack of knowledge about his standpoint on racial issues) is like he, himself, praising the Grand Wizard. <<< I know that's a harsh comparison, but let's face it; The Black Panthers are the black equivelant of the KKK minus the red neck trailer parks, beer bellies and burning crosses.

[Block]

The ONLY reason he is held to such high esteem is because of how he died. Also, if it were just him that died and not BIG, as well, I don't think he'd be held on such a high pedestal.

Pac is probably THE single most overrated rapper in the history of hip hop.

Well said

I always think if 2pac never existed, and if someone came out releasing his exact material now, a brand new artist nobody heard of, would it still be held in the same regard? Hell no. I doubt people would even listen. It's the same as Eminem. If Eminem retired after The Eminem Show, and then some completely new artist came onto the scene releasing albums the quality of Encore and Relapse, people would say this new guy was whack and killing Hip Hop.

I never thought of it that way but that's an awesome way to look at it. I totally agree.

[N.W.A.]

Somebody in this thread has no fucking clue what they are talking about, I hope they are just young so they can have a little bit of an excuse.

[dead prez]

Whilst we're on the subject, and we know the thread is pretty stupid, lets make a discussion out of it.

Which rappers are actually bald and which ones just shave their head?

DMX is bald, it's easy to notice so he just shaves his head. Are you sure Tupac was bald? I think he just shaved his head. Proof was bald. I've never seen Big L without a hat or a beanie on, so I suspect he might have been bald. Fat Joe is ...?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBrzEVJwYFg

He gets a haircut in this video, I think Ghostface is bald though.

[Devil'sAdvocate]

Pac's effect on the genre was better than his rapping.

i respect him,but i am not a fan.

[Block]

Somebody in this thread has no fucking clue what they are talking about, I hope they are just young so they can have a little bit of an excuse.

I thought this thread was going to be serious so i was ready to debate but when i got in i found out that it's just a guy who has no time and wants to waste it by saying dumb things.
P.S. Stillmatic pretty much demolished everyone who thinks Pac is overrated

Fuck a steak slut, I'll cut my toes off and step on the receipt before I foot the bill




^^^^ Your opinion doesn't count where matters of Hip Hop are concerned. But I'll translate your quote for you: Block is fucking smart and I really have nothing to say in contrast to his objections to Tupac's hype. So, insteand of attempting to argue with him and end up looking dumb, I'll just claim that someone else did the work for me. Yeah, that will work! I'm fucking amazing at this problem solving shit!

That doesn't work.

[Devil'sAdvocate]

If Pac never rapped, a lot of rappers out right now wouldn't have rapped.

Maybe we'd be better off.

id like to know who wouldnt of rapped cuz of pac tho?

[Master Chief]

It'd be better to say that most rappers would have rapped differently if Pac wouldn't have rapped. Which is undeniable. Off the top of my head... in "Soldier" by Eminem the 2Pac influence is obvious.