Let's Call Pac What He Really Was

[Devil'sAdvocate]

as i said the dude has his effects on the genre.

but when u ask any rapper abt pac hes gonna reply with some nice comment that he listened to pac.

[_Steven_]

Everyone here knows Pac has one of the weakest discographies for anyone else legitimately considered GOAT. 7 Day Theory is the best and it pails in comparison to any album Big L released.

[Satire]

Everyone here knows Pac has one of the weakest discographies for anyone else legitimately considered GOAT. 7 Day Theory is the best and it pails in comparison to any album Big L released.

Me Against The World was definitely better than Devil's Son.

[_Steven_]

Everyone here knows Pac has one of the weakest discographies for anyone else legitimately considered GOAT. 7 Day Theory is the best and it pails in comparison to any album Big L released.

Me Against The World was definitely better than Devil's Son.

I've convinced myself people only mention MATW for the same reason they mention Illmatic. It's a staple of hip hop. It had weak guest features, lazy beats, and no direction whatsoever.

[Master Chief]

Weak production on MATW? That's one of the main reasons it's praised lol.

[Satire]

Everyone here knows Pac has one of the weakest discographies for anyone else legitimately considered GOAT. 7 Day Theory is the best and it pails in comparison to any album Big L released.

Me Against The World was definitely better than Devil's Son.

I've convinced myself people only mention MATW for the same reason they mention Illmatic. It's a staple of hip hop. It had weak guest features, lazy beats, and no direction whatsoever.

And you think Devil's Son was better?

[_Steven_]

Yes and it's a post humus BS album rounded up to make a quick buck. It's sad.

[Block]

everything I said was truth. You obviously do not know the difference between truth and bring presumptuous. See, what you're saying is presumptuous. There is no physical proof that tupac has influenced anyone's music in any significant manner.

Tupac is extremely overrated and you're angry as hell.

Lol @ "u get owned!zzzzxxdg" you're a dumb ass. Go back to feeling lonely because nobody mentions your sorry ass.

^^^^ Your opinion doesn't count where matters of Hip Hop are concerned. But I'll translate your quote for you: Block is fucking smart and I really have nothing to say in contrast to his objections to Tupac's hype. So, insteand of attempting to argue with him and end up looking dumb, I'll just claim that someone else did the work for me. Yeah, that will work! I'm fucking amazing at this problem solving shit!

That doesn't work.

Why don't you drop the act and be serious for a minute, cunt!
You're stupid as fuck and your argument have no sense of truth....
If Pac never rapped, a lot of rappers out right now wouldn't have rapped.
If Pac never rapped, a lot of rappers wouldn't be inspired to be man enough and say whatever the fuck they want (e.g Eminem).
So my opinion matters because what i say makes sense.
Your opinion doesn't matter because you're a piece of shit who gets owned in every damn thread.
Fuck off you fuckin blowjob, go find you some newbie to make fun of

[dead prez]

Alright, I do agree that Pac and Big are put on some ridiculous pedestal because died in their prime, but it's only natural. I mean look at how Big transitioned as an mc from R2D to LAD, his storytelling skills were top notch, his flow was much smoother, and he didn't have to yell in bursts to have a half decent delivery. I also agree that neither Big nor Pac were Pioneers or even trendsetters for that matter, Nas, Jay, Eminem aren't pioneers by that admission either. They all have a hugin the influence game but didn't do anything innovative in Hip Hop that wasn't done before them during their time, that said, I must ask, "How are Onyx pioneers"?

As far as Pac being the most overrated, he's up there, but I believe some rappers are more overrated when you make a comparison their actual content, and they praise they get for it.

As far as Pac's influence, Ja Rule I guess, oh and Realest biggest biter off all time, btw.

As far as Big L is concerned, I legitamately believe he has the biggest death hype out off all the dead rappers tbh. If you want to talk about an album lacking direction, than just point to any Big L album, it just feels like one really well put together mixtape.

Well said

I always think if 2pac never existed, and if someone came out releasing his exact material now, a brand new artist nobody heard of, would it still be held in the same regard? Hell no. I doubt people would even listen. It's the same as Eminem. If Eminem retired after The Eminem Show, and then some completely new artist came onto the scene releasing albums the quality of Encore and Relapse, people would say this new guy was whack and killing Hip Hop.

Yes, I do believe that somewhat. As far as your Eminem comparison is concerned that's a completely different comparison, and is like asking if Nas debuted with IWW instead would he still be a legend.

[_Steven_]

Eminem was pretty innovative though not in a good way. He spawned all the "crazy" genre of rap.

[Trimss]

I hate when people are like : Tupac is the greatezt real gangztaa thug lifff he died bkauz he a real ggg best wrapper evaaa.

His fans put him on a pedestal, and everytime I try to debate with one of them saying that em or nas are technically better than him, they laugh at my face like "dude i'm talking about rap." and it pisses me off.

[stillmatic]

Dude, you're missing my point. I'm looking at this from a purely hip hop perspective. I know the things he was involved with (and I've seen that documentary). But he was also very hypocritical and he was very racist. That's not the point, though. My point is about how his legacy in hip hop is so exaggerated by people. He wasn't "The best rapper ever." Neither was Biggie. That's all I'm saying.

Firstly he says he was hypocritical, he admits it himself. We have a grown ass man admitting to his imperfections, his interviews are there to read and see, he never went around claiming he was above anybody. He always admitted that he had a big mouth, that's one of the best things about Tupac Resurrection, is when we saw this larger than life figure admitting that he really couldn't control his mouth sometimes because of the injustices he saw. I have no idea where you're getting the idea that he's racist, but his white audience is also addressed on Tupac Resurrection. To be honest, this notion that Tupac is a racist, I've probably heard that about only 2 or 3 times in my life. It's completely out of left field.

I don't consider him the best rapper ever either. But it isn't sacrilegious to say he was, you're not crazy if you think so. Rap is poetry in so many ways, and Tupac was a poet of the highest order. His music had everything, his earlier albums were lyrical filled with vivid storytelling and imagery. His music a bit later on was a movement. He defined many great qualities of hip hop. Rap was made so as to spark change among the communities as a way for the people to start a push toward social change, and no one in hip hop has EVER come close to emotions evoked by music than Tupac, so no, to say Tupac is the best of all time, it doesn't make it a bad opinion at all. It's a pretty fair call perhaps.

I mean, we could argue for hours about how many lives he's changed, since that's an entirely baseless argument without any substantiating proof for either side. We could also debate about other people in hip hop who have been extremely influential in their cultures. Wyclef Jean, for example. That's not my point, though. My argument is purely hip hop. Not his 'extracurricular activities', lol.

Substantiating proof? Are you kidding me? This is not even a debate. Tupac has impacted lives like no other. No one compares to him from hip hop, it's even hilarious to put anyone on the same level as him when it comes to impacting the people the way he has. It's not fair on hip hop, because he's 20 times bigger than hip hop when it comes to that. Tupac is the most influential negro after Malcolm and before Barack. We're not the UK, but if the black community was to ever elect a Queen, for us it would have been the late great Coretta Scott. And when you have see get involved and start holding talks and speaking at different functions and holding lectures with Afeni Shakur, you trying to tell me that it's a baseless argument that Tupac had an impact on people? Are you for real? Bernice King is still working with the Tupac foundation. As are COUNTLESS other people who mean so much to the black community. This is not a debate, there is nothing to debate in terms of this point here.

Also, for a white person to praise him (which is done out of ignorance and/or lack of knowledge about his standpoint on racial issues) is like he, himself, praising the Grand Wizard. <<< I know that's a harsh comparison, but let's face it; The Black Panthers are the black equivelant of the KKK minus the red neck trailer parks, beer bellies and burning crosses.

I'm not gonna respond to this because it's turning too political, and you're coming off as a bit of redneck now. I don't think you know anything about the Black Panthers, and the way you're speaking about it is fucking stupid and offensive.

[dead prez]

I like both of you guys, hope that this doesn't turn too heated.

[Master Chief]

I like both of you guys, hope that this doesn't turn too heated.

Too late.

[stillmatic]

I always think if 2pac never existed, and if someone came out releasing his exact material now, a brand new artist nobody heard of, would it still be held in the same regard? Hell no. I doubt people would even listen. It's the same as Eminem. If Eminem retired after The Eminem Show, and then some completely new artist came onto the scene releasing albums the quality of Encore and Relapse, people would say this new guy was whack and killing Hip Hop.

I don't see the relevance of this at all.

If someone came out releasing the same type of material Tupac did, they would not be held in the same regard for one reason - because they're not Tupac. It's not just about the music, it's about the person, that's what makes an icon. Icons are not made when they can be mimicked. You think there hasn't been artists like Hendrix since he died? You think there hasn't been people trying to replicate the work of Lennon after his passing? You think there weren't record companies looking left and right constantly when Marley died trying to find another 'Rasta who could personify coolness, gangster and love the way Marley did? Of course they did, and of course they found some similar, but you can never replicate greatness, but only mimic it. Form is temporary, but class is permanent, and just because someone is gone, it doesn't mean you can just turn them off like that.