Artists and their subjects...

[dead prez]

Anyways I was contemplating how many avid rap (music) fans dislike an artist or band based on their beliefs or what they promote in their music, while others ignore beliefs and simply condone the music. Another scenario that I'd like to bring up are those that will stop listening to an artist because of the direction they have taken in their music, who they collabarated with, and whether or not said artist(s) "sell out".

One one side you have those who pay no mind to the artist's lyrics (content, not technicalities), directions they have taken in their music, or past actions the artist may have done. They believe that just because artist's have a message which they disagree with and conflicts with their set beliefs, they don't believe it's worth closing off a branch of music, because of that. After all good music, is good music, right?

On the flips side you have those who avoid artists based on what their lyrics may condone, or whatever past actions the artist may have done in their music, and choose to close off that artist from their ipod even if they may have good music or amazing music actually. Supporting an artist with beliefs that conflicts with yours or artists that condone notions that you disagree with is wrong, I suppose. It would be like selling yourself out as well and supporting artists whose stance you don't agree with, and I guess may not be one of your principles.

Both decent/subjective views that can spark some decent discussion, but I'd like to know your view on this and what's your stance. Are you the former who can appreciate music on it's merit alone or are you obssessed with what the artists believe in and can't support them if they have views that don't coincide with yours.

Lastly, there are those that stop supporting an artist because they may have "sold out" and alienate former fans, or those that simply take a new direction in their musical style which doesn't appeal to former fans, for how drastic it was. Which brings up two other points, I'd like to ask.

-Would you stop supporting an artist if they "sold out" and violated their principles?
- Would you rather an artist be stagnant and pretty much stay the same as to not alienate the original fans and rarely makes changes in their music, or would you want an artist that drastically changes their musical styling every album, which pretty much has no former resemblance to the last?

And yeah I know there can be a bit of a balance of both, but choose one goddammit.

[Devil'sAdvocate]

good topic my asian nikka!,you have raised 2 points here i will respond respectively.

I find myself being part of both.

I do not support the blood and crip image nor do i like the killing and taking drugs image,but i find myself listening and liking artists,rappers in this case who stand by/support/speak on/commercialize these image,which means i look past the content and enjoy the music,and sometimes i like the content,its what the best rappers spoke about (G rap,Nas,Snoop,Crooked)

and i do not listen to immortal technique for example cuz i cant stand the bullshit he speaks about,i do not believe in the illuminati or whatever.

second point:

Why should it matter if a rapper sold out,if I find the music dope,i will listen,if the music is terrible and bad then i wont.

An artist has to develop and work on keeping it fresh,the real question here is if he does that,does he succeed in it? is this new style hes generating for himself good? if it is then it is,i wouldnt mind an artist that changes his style from every album,id love that.

[dead prez]

First off good response

I do not support the blood and crip image nor do i like the killing and taking drugs image,but i find myself listening and liking artists,rappers in this case who stand by/support/speak on/commercialize these image,which means i look past the content and enjoy the music,and sometimes i like the content,its what the best rappers spoke about (G rap,Nas,Snoop,Crooked)

and i do not listen to immortal technique for example cuz i cant stand the bullshit he speaks about,i do not believe in the illuminati or whatever.

I get what you're saying, and I can understand why you feel this way. Even though we don't condone misogny, murder, stealing, drug trafficking and everything else that is considered unethical it's still a thrill to listen to the music and appreciate it as entertainment, sort of the same reason people love movies like The Godfather, Scarface, etc. A lot of people like the excitement and thrill from listening to Gangsta/Mafioso rap, not to mention there are different shades of Gangsta rap that needs to be addressed.

People like to box Gangsta rap as nothing but a horrible genre that promotes unethical values but don't look at the bigger picture and realize that many times there's a socio political message being said, or it's a cry for help. Not to mention artist's like 2pac touch upon it in different shades, I mean Me Against The World was basically him being distressed over being shot in NY. And fucking Biggie ended an album with killing himself, so the whole notion that Gangsta rap is one dimension bargain bin pop garbage with no redeeming value is ludicrous.

I can see why people would not enjoy artists like I.T.'s music even if he does make good music (which I don't think he does but that's a different story), perhaps it just coincides with their beliefs too much for them to enjoy it. Unless you treat music as nothing but white noise, you're bound to get fed up with lyrics that you obviously disagree with or don't see eye to eye with. I think that's part of the reason I.T. gets so much flak, same for Canibus, though I honestly can't enjoy their music either way. Regardless of what they stand for.

second point:

Why should it matter if a rapper sold out,if I find the music dope,i will listen,if the music is terrible and bad then i wont.

An artist has to develop and work on keeping it fresh,the real question here is if he does that,does he succeed in it? is this new style hes generating for himself good? if it is then it is,i wouldnt mind an artist that changes his style from every album,id love that.

Again I agree, though I can see why people would not like artists selling out, because of alienating former fans or violating principles which they once held, thereby deeming them as hypocritcal. It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth, but that's it. It also sacrifices artistic integrity, and if you look at the artist and not just the music, that it's kind of a big detraction.

As for them changing it up, I'm honestly not sure it it's a good idea. I mean yeah they have to keep it fresh, but if they keep changing up their musical styling, they'll have an assortment of different fans with completely polarizing music tastes. I'm all for growing as an artist each album, but there's no need to take the blueprint and throw it into the dumpster and start from square one.

[classthe_king]

That's the most confusing post I've ever read.

[dead prez]

Want me to sum it up?

Do you enjoy music on its own merit alone and don't let the lyrics (content and what they stand for not technicalities) , intentions or past actions of the artist negatively influence your perception of the artist? Or can you enjoy the music on it's own merit alone independent of the various factors I listed?

-As for the other two questions, do you care about whether or not artists sell out and would you still support their music if they do?
-Would you rather an artist be stagnant and rarely change up their musical styling that they run with or would you rather have them make drastic changes each album, possibly alienating former fans?

[Devil'sAdvocate]

you worded what i meant better,thanks B!

[momentsgolden]

I thought about this deeply when making my own review of the MMLP. There is the obvious homosexual "hate", "graphic killing of wife" and all the other stuff that made the news but was interpreted wrongly. BUT, the columbinie line, in retrospect, was crossing the line. I realised, i would support the same artist if he has a variety of content and simply shut- off tracks like I'm back which make me cringe? When does Freedom of speech and Bad taste humour end and start?

About "selling out"- there are obvious examples of rappers who actually do that (Lupe's Lasers eg) but collaborating with new artists/ new production / different direction etc are important IMO. The perfect example is (while not rap) Linking Park which has consistently grown musically and artistically yet the original fans are holding on to the old. Its nonensical! It should be welcome to be versatile while maintaining the same standard of music.

[classthe_king]

Do you enjoy music on its own merit alone and don't let the lyrics (content and what they stand for not technicalities) , intentions or past actions of the artist negatively influence your perception of the artist? Or can you enjoy the music on it's own merit alone independent of the various factors I listed?

Ummmm, I just like good music. I don't care if he's completely lying in his songs, as long as the music is good that's all that matters to me

-As for the other two questions, do you care about whether or not artists sell out and would you still support their music if they do?

If they sold out and still made music I would support them, if they sold out and made shitty music I wouldn't

-Would you rather an artist be stagnant and rarely change up their musical styling that they run with or would you rather have them make drastic changes each album, possibly alienating former fans?

I want them to switch it up but don't make it drastic. Just try to get better on each album.

[dead prez]

Why did that breakdown feel like an "Ask a Question" thread?

And I also meant to add whether or not you care if the artist you're supporting is a huge asshole who has sordid beliefs, and by supporting them you're perpetuating their beliefs. Some people are easily influenced and by supporting artists with heinous ideas, you're condoning said acts , doesn't that mean people will consider said artists themselves?

Mind Fuck

[JUMPDMC]

I support talent, and enjoy listening to diffrent perspectives. Hope thats a good enough answer

[dead prez]

I support talent, and enjoy listening to diffrent perspectives. Hope thats a good enough answer

[classthe_king]

Why did that breakdown feel like an "Ask a Question" thread?

And I also meant to add whether or not you care if the artist you're supporting is a huge asshole who has sordid beliefs, and by supporting them you're perpetuating their beliefs. Some people are easily influenced and by supporting artists with heinous ideas, you're condoning said acts , doesn't that mean people will consider said artists themselves?

Mind Fuck

Examples?

[Devil'sAdvocate]

thread had alot of potential.