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Hell better than Recovery?

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Hell better than Recovery?

Postby eat_healthy » Jun 6th, '11, 13:27

I know it's very early and we're all in the hype stage but it's a serious contender, isn't it?

I wasn't actually hyped for this whatsoever and found Fast Lane to be a little underwhelming.

I was however very hyped for Recovery thinking it was going to be another Eminem Show.

I'm seriously impressed with this album so far, I expected Royce to be a pointless addition (no offense, just not a fan) but he's grown on me a lot and he actually brings a lot to Em's verses, complimenting them nicely.

My favourites: pretty much all of them, i'm not as hyped for The Reunion as most. To me it sounds like he's forgotten how to spit slow and all of a sudden it's unnatural to him, I dunno.

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Re: Hell better than Recovery?

Postby eat_healthy » Jun 6th, '11, 13:34

Also I like the whispering delivery they do on some of the versus, like they're letting you in on a secret or sharing something vulnerable. it's especially noticeable on Lighters in Em's verse. I haven't heard Em do it, ever, but it's a nice subtle addition to his arsenal
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Re: Hell better than Recovery?

Postby indy » Jun 6th, '11, 13:45

Yes. better then Relapse no

Relapse > Hell > Recovery > Encore
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Re: Hell better than Recovery?

Postby Unscarred » Jun 6th, '11, 13:47

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No, its not. Your just hyped right now. Give it a little time, i'm sure you'll realise that it's not even near Recovery.
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Re: Hell better than Recovery?

Postby eat_healthy » Jun 6th, '11, 13:49

I see Relapse as his last "true" album in that it had that special eminem feel which is a combination of dr dre and em's honesty.

then forever came out and he blew people away with his fast, aggressive flow and ever since he's sort of been another rapper (but still a good one!) i think he's being less real and compromising a little too much but that's me. i liked encore because he was depressed and on drugs and that came through in the music, because it was often "shit", but good because of that, you know? he said a lot by not saying anything. his new music has less of that, it's harder to read his mind
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Re: Hell better than Recovery?

Postby flyingmonkey10 » Jun 6th, '11, 14:12

personally, i love it more than recovery
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Re: Hell better than Recovery?

Postby EminemBase » Jun 6th, '11, 14:22

Well... some of the spitting is better than that on Recovery. And the beats are of course WAY better. But I feel the major letdown of Recovery IS the production.

And the lack of Em hooks. I don't feel the songs are letdowns though and if they were produced by Em himself and / or Havoc and Mr. Porter (all)... I think it would of been so much more powerful and consistent. And a much much better album.

I think people too easily bash Recovery now and believe me, I'm by no means its biggest fan as I love Relapse and saw Recovery as a compromise to appease what he felt were alienated fans. I felt he went back on his word and compromised himself for others, which... is not good.

However, like I was saying - I think it's too easily dismissed due to the remembered bad elements of it like the production, the odd bad puns and the hooks.

But when I actually examine Recovery, almost every track is good-classic to me. The album isn't a classic of course, it's far too patchy and inconsistent (again, the production is to blame for this) and lacking any true musical direction to feel like a classic.

But, just take a look at the best tracks from it, which are, to me:
- Cold Wind Blows
- On Fire
- W.T.P.
- Going Through Changes
- Space Bound
- Cinderella Man
- 25 to Life
- Almost Famous
- You're Never Over

Those are all significant highlights for me.

So, is Hell: The Sequel better than those tracks. Or, do the heights of the EP reach the heights of Recovery... personally I think no. Eminem's rapping may be more complex or well-executed in places on the EP and the whole thing is certainly more consistent...

But, just in musical terms, as whole songs - I don't think there's anything on the EP that is in the same ball park as "Cinderella Man" or "Almost Famous" . The songs don't feel as 'big' or commanding. Though "Above the Law" sounds like "Almost Famous"' cousin. And is fucking awesome.

That wasn't the aim of the material on the EP though so, it's a bit 'wrong' to compare them. As they have totally different aims, but I suppose you could just state which one for you is better, just as in... a matter of fact. Just like I'd say Goodfellas is a better film than Dude Where's My Car?. But, they're aiming for different ideals, and have entirely different goals.

So it doesn't make much sense to compare them.

This comparison obviously isn't that extreme, Em's still basically just slapping sluts and proclaiming how cold hearted he is but, I was just making a point. :8)

There's a lot more direction in the songs on Recovery too. Which is why I would say it's better in one sense. Again though, I'm not saying that's necessarily a good argument as a Bad Meets Evil EP doesn't have the same aims as a solo Eminem LP. But just for the sake of discussion, you have a concept like "Almost Famous", or "Cinderella Man" and, the execution is very good. And, there's a direction to his madness, rather than it being totally random puns.

So yeah I'd say that as a consistent presentation: Hell: The Sequel takes it (due to production, and track sequencing btw, which is near spot-on). But, as for which reaches the best heights or which resonated with me more, and excited me more... and which houses music that is BIG and lasting - I'd have to say Recovery.
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Re: Hell better than Recovery?

Postby eat_healthy » Jun 6th, '11, 14:54

Good post Embase

I agree that recovery is by far more focused direction-wise but I find Hell to be an easier listen, production wise its sonically consistent and addicting. When Em says how sharp he's gotten on I believe, Welcome to Hell you actually believe him. The Bruce Willis part was fucking awesome as well and whenever I think Recovery I think of that fucking "rapping circles around square lyricists" and I cringe. His punchlines are superior here and if he stayed this sharp I would be more okay with accepting Em as a punchlines rapper and shake the damn Lil Wayne image I've got in my head.

Also I've never "got" Cinderella Man, maybe I'm ignorant but that song does NOTHING for me, beat-wise and lyrically t just feels hollow. It's my least favorite after won't back down, unfortunately
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Re: Hell better than Recovery?

Postby EminemBase » Jun 6th, '11, 15:00

eat_healthy wrote:I think Recovery I think of that fucking "rapping circles around square lyricists" and I cringe.


There are certainly some cringing lines on Recovery but I wouldn't consider that one of them.

That whole closing of "Cinderella Man" is maybe THEE highlight of the album for me. Has a whole new spark and energy to it, and the writing is potent, and more adult:

Raise hell - from hell he came
But didn't come to bore you with this Cinderella Story...
Nor did he come to do the same
Can't afford to be a label in this day and age,
And at this stage of the game
Mediocrity can no longer be allowed to fly
So say bye, to the old H-I
to the new, Que Sera
Consider it his last hurrah to Coup de grace
Raise em high in the sky, keep em up
Time to bring the place alive


:worship:

And that line:
Who forms pyramids and raps circles around square lyricists?

Is a brilliant line. It's not cringing because it's not forced or some aimless pun, it's about his rapping ability and, the use of shapes there works within their own phrasing. As in, you can call somebody 'a square lyricist' or say you 'rap circles' around somebody.

And you could also say you form pyramids to indicate you create complexity. Everything there is totally natural and plays off itself, so the use of shapes for that line is used perfectly. Definitely one of the better punchlines of the album for me.

Isn't corny or trying to be funny either. Is self-proclamation but, it's smarter.

And yes I'm well aware of the 'stakes are high' and 'couldn't / cunt hear it' lines from that verse which many find cringing. And I'm not saying they're not corny but they don't invalidate the entire song for me, there's so much good beyond the silly puns in that verse which far far outweigh the glitches.
Last edited by EminemBase on Jun 6th, '11, 15:09, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Hell better than Recovery?

Postby Wreck » Jun 6th, '11, 15:05

indy wrote:Yes. better then Relapse no

Relapse > Hell > Recovery > Encore

:laughing: :laughing: are you nuts? relapse better then hell? :laughing: :laughing:

relapse is worst then recovery, and encore isn't the worst of them. hell is the best out of the 4 in my my mind.
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Re: Hell better than Recovery?

Postby eat_healthy » Jun 6th, '11, 15:08

If you could help me appreciate Cinderella Man that'd be great, what exactly is the concept behind it? That he can do anything or? It goes right over my head, the songs an enigma : -/ maybe I haven't payed it enough attention.
Last edited by eat_healthy on Jun 6th, '11, 15:09, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hell better than Recovery?

Postby Kez » Jun 6th, '11, 15:13

Really there should be a required wait of like two weeks before you start trying to form opinions about whether a brand new release is better than a previous one or not.
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Re: Hell better than Recovery?

Postby EminemBase » Jun 6th, '11, 15:19

eat_healthy wrote:If you could help me appreciate Cinderella Man that'd be great, what exactly is the concept behind it? That he can do anything or? It goes right over my head, the songs an enigma : -/ maybe I haven't payed it enough attention.


Clue is in the chorus...

If I had a time machine
I'd be... Cinderella Man

Music is my time machine
So call me... Cinderella Man


And some key Em lyrics:

Smash an hourglass, grab the sand, take its hands an cup em
Spit a rhyme to freeze the clock, take the hands of time and cuff 'em


(nice creative visual there too)

Rewound the future to the present, paused it - don't ask how
Fuck the past motherfucker, he's the shit right now


So, music is Em's time machine. And that's why he's - Cinderella Man. On the song.

So, you have that loose concept, then he raps around it, weaving in out and of the concept with a mix of personal revelations and aimless jabs as usual. It's just so energized and focused though and I can appreciate how the constant repetition of "cinderella man, cinderella man" might be annoying for some but Em's little kick-in to start the chorus of...

Now guess who who (hey)
Heres a clue (hey)
He came to a ball in a wife beater, lost his Nike shoe
It's in ya ass (hey)
He's in ya ass, he's all up in ya psyche too
Now what's his name?


Is just very addictive to me, and makes the song like this constant chant. So it's a concept slash lyrical slash personal track, the concept is an excuse to rap just to rap but it's a good concept. And, I like the fact it isn't so tightly structured as his usual songs where it just goes:

Verse 1 / chorus / verse 2 / chorus / verse 3 / chorus

This has a bit of experimentation in terms of, playing with the song format a bit. As the chorus isn't just one thing, it breaks up into a little batch of chants and the way he asks "Who?" makes it a bit meta, as if he's interacting in real-time. Makes it feel alive...



Much like his part on "Won't Back Down" with the volume going down. Not claiming this is mind-blowing innovation but like I say, it's just a nice little trick to make the song feel conscious - which he's always been good at. In terms of, talking to the listener and, making it feel LIVE at all times.

His flow and the structure of his lyrics on this song are spot-on for me too. I don't really care if his multies etc. compare to his old shit when listening to a song like this. Or if there's a silly pun or two. As it's just very satisfying to my ears, sense of rhythm and thought.
Last edited by EminemBase on Jun 6th, '11, 15:29, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hell better than Recovery?

Postby eat_healthy » Jun 6th, '11, 15:29

Awesome I actually had no idea it was about time travel but that makes sense. I should probably brush up on the actual Cinderella fairytale itself *shrugs*.

I admit, the chanting pisses me off a bit but I do appreciate the experimental structure. And I like the steak line but not the "cunt/can't" line.

Anyway, job well done! Ill be hearing more in the song now.
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Re: Hell better than Recovery?

Postby indy » Jun 6th, '11, 15:39

Wreck wrote:
indy wrote:Yes. better then Relapse no

Relapse > Hell > Recovery > Encore

:laughing: :laughing: are you nuts? relapse better then hell? :laughing: :laughing:

relapse is worst then recovery, and encore isn't the worst of them. hell is the best out of the 4 in my my mind.



Nope not nuts. I Think i know my hiphop and Relapse is ALMOST a classic album imo. 3am, My Mom, Same Song & Dance, Stay Wide Awake, Deja Vu are all classic songs. I love Relapse. It has everything. i just wish there were more tracks like Deja Vu instead of medicine ball, crack a bottle and we made you.

Hell was pretty awesome but i dont like the whole tihng with the hooks, why dont Em make em? take from me and above the law would have been so much better if it wasent for the hooks

Recovery also had the hook problem and i HATE the beats and i hate wayne, kobe, pink and rihanna. Recovery is corny and lame and dosent sound like Eminem.


Encore is Em's worst album imo. puke, big weenie, just lose it, ass like that, my 1th single are fuckin awful


all my opinion tho. i love Relapse.
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