First of all, why are you so defensive and angry? So many insults lmao. Relax a little, buddy. I guess you do have problems like you claim you do...
EminemBase wrote:Of course impact fucking matters you retard.
Or, somebody on TR could make a great album in their bedroom, show twenty hip-hop fans, who all think it's brilliant and then what... it's a classic?
I thought sales didn't matter? Are you saying undeground albums aren't classics? That analogy doesn't work because DIC while underground sold a bit.
If an album is released on a professional level, as Death Is Certain was, with professional critics and publications hearing it and a relatively big (in comparison to a sole outfit) number of hip-hop fans hearing it: if it doesn't create a substantial impact amongst those people, it's not a classic. If you're not judging by the reaction, what are you judging by?
You can't just ignore the major reaction and say your personal reaction overrules everybody and therefore it IS a classic. You're deluded in thinking most received it as a classic.
And by substantial, I don't mean people go "yeah, pretty good" or even "great album". A classic makes people go "WOW, that is an amazing fucking album". And, from reading around, even general fans, even ones who LIKE it, it didn't make many people do that at all.
Who are you to say that because an album doesn't cause impact with the people that hear, it's not a classic? Impact what? What are you trying to say with impact? All that matters is that the album was critically acclaimed amongst the people that heard it.
Again, stop assuming that I'm saying all this based on my opinion. If it was my opinion, I would say DIC is one of the best albums ever but I'm simply stating it was recieved as a classic, outside of me.
What are you reading? From reading around, in reviews and forums. This album is regarded highly.
My god you're such a retard lmfao.
Look at the way you think. I call Death Is Certain a generic album and call the material on it personal, bland and generic...
And you go from that to calling "Deja Vu" and "Rock Bottom" 'the most generic songs you've ever heard'... 'as well', sarcastically. Since when does calling one album which happens to house personal material on it generic translate into calling ALL personal material 'the most generic ever' by default.
You're such a fucking retard.
Because how the fuck is personal subject matter generic? Especially how Royce executes which leads me to this blatantly ignorant post...
It's all about execution. It's not the fact the songs are personal, as most of 2Pac's material is personal. It's how it's executed, which is simply not noteworthy enough. There's a lot of babble in amongst what he's saying and a good flow and rhyming isn't enough to disguise his dull thoughts.
When you turn on 2Pac's classic personal tracks like "Dear Mama"... they do something to you. They're executed with such emotion and passion, and grace. Where as, Royce lamely rapping about guns, how tough he is and bla bla bla, in the same fucking way on every track does nothing.
To call those tracks classics, you must have low fucking standards.
Babble? What the fuck does that mean? In Death Is Certain Pt. II he displayed amazing emotion and anger toward the death of his friend. Lines like :
While I'm sayin my grace
I'll be lookin up at the sky, and tellin God that he's makin a mistake
You can't take away one brother and leave the rest of the clique
Lord please, double check yo' list
And if you get to his name and it's a check beside it
Death comes in three's, take me next
...but don't make me sweat, please
I won't make it, I get restless speculatin'
How is that babble? Every single line in that song is heartfelt and not babble. Go look at lyrics, man seriously.
Guns and how tough he is? LMAO. You are so ignorant towards this album. When he touches on the subject of guns (IN A FEW LINES OF A FEW SONGS) he actually executes it with class. Death is Certain Pt. 2 is not only a negative song but an intelligent song. Unlike 50 Cent, who makes murder out to be cool, Royce shows violence for what it really is. That's the difference between Royce and gun talk in this album.
"And I can't kill, nobody to get you back
N.igga that's somethin' that time can't heal"
Beef is pretty much the only song with considerable talk about guns, yet it fits perfectly since the song is about beef. Are you gonna tell me every song is like "Beef"? Really? Lmao @ saying I have low standards, I could easily say the same about Black On Both Sides but those are called opinions...
No, not 'the most' - once again, you're hyper-defensive and like a stupid little baby jump to the most extreme defense imaginable.
When the FUCK did I say a classic had to be 'the most' original album ever. I wouldn't of said Illmatic is a classic if that's the case as the only thing truly remarkable about that is the execution. His actual ideas aren't strikingly original either. It's his lyricism and style.
I never said that you said that. I was just saying. Seriously, why the fuck does everything have to be an insult or a response to you? Stop being so defensive, relax.
Also, very few albums that come close to the depressive and angry nature of DIC? my god. You must have a FUCKING limited palette then I must say. And I do myself but even I can think of a ton right off the top. DIC isn't even effectively dark ffs.
It's lame as fuck. You're confusing laid back and empty with dark and depressive. He mixes genuine personal thoughts with predictable gangsta cheese, there's so much empty, lame lyricism on that album and the songs are not striking in any way. They barely define themselves from each other.
I don't have a limited palette, very few albums are as dark and depressive as DIC.
Beef isn't dark? T.O.D.A.Y isn't depressing? Throwback isn't dark and angry? Something's Wrong With Him isn't dark and angry? Death Is Certain Pt. II isn't an incredibly negative and depressive song? Everybody Goes isn't depressing? C'mon man... Where the fuck is this "gangsta cheese"? Beef isn't gangsta cheese, it's a song that describes Beef and the dangers and outcomes of it. Royce executes his "gangsta" talk in an intelligent way. It's not just, I'm going to kill you because I'm tough. Even the song "Gangsta" isn't as generic as its title.
What track on that album is as depressive as "If I Had" or "Rock Bottom" or EVEN FUCKING CLOSE to being as well written? I dare you.
Death Is Certain Pt. II is as depressing as them. But, not as well written.
'Most of the hip-hop community' - where the fuck are you getting your info dick head?
That's interesting you think that as we had a big debate about this album in the Yelawolf vs. Royce thread and almost everybody that replied there said it wasn't a classic. And people have already replied here saying that it's not...
MikeNUFC considers it a classic, so does Menzo, so does DA. Those were the only people that were involved in that thread heavily besides you so nope.
And if you were to look across the span of the Internet for personal hip-hop head's top 10, 20 lists or even 'classic album lists' of the past decade mainstream or underground, you'd be hard-pressed to find this album on the list let alone near top.
Did I say this album was one of the most recognized and regarded as classic. I just said that many people believe it's a classic not that it will top any lists.
No no, YOU are ignorant as hell moron.
You clearly have made a blind assumption, get your head out of your ass you fucking brain-dead cocksucker. Death Is Certain was absolutely not received as a classic by most.
It's a barely remembered, solid album. Nothing more.
Gee, look. More aimless and angry insults! Yay!
[quote[First of all, how the fuck is impact the only thing I can bring up? oh you mean besides every element of the material and the execution that I've also brought up...
Secondly:
Yes IMPACT DOES MATTER DICK HEAD.
Impact = effect the album has on fans who hear it. If it makes no impact, guess what?...
Fans who heard it = didn't rave about it.[/quote]
Already discussed.
Do the fucking math you cretin. I'm not talking huge sales or singles. Even underground classics, earn that status because everybody who hears it cannot help but yell from the fucking rooftops about what they've just heard to every other hip-hop fan.
Death Is Certain did not / does not come CLOSE to having that impact, on anyone. You are absolutely fucking wrong, wrong, wroooooooong. Go learn, you fucking idiot.
Lol, cretin. Congratulations, +1 for new insult.
Yeah, adding those extra "o's" helps your argument...
