What Would You Say Eminem's Strength/Weakness in Rapping Is?

[2DreamFire]

What is he best at? Flow? Rhyme Schemes? Delivery? Versatility?

What is he worst at?

Discuss.


Hi, I'm new here. I've been lurking for a while.

[Master Chief]

He's by far the worst at punchlines.

[Amaranthine]

What is he worst at? I'd say taking a specific style too far, or maybe it just seems too far. When all we had was Relapse, all we heard was accents and it got old. Now when you look back on it, it's not so bad. Same goes for "shouting". He should mix up all his styles and give us them in small doses, depending on what the beat tells him to do.

Word, but I seriously doubt he'd be able to change it. It's part of his addict's personality, something he's mentioned before. He's said that he can't do anything halfway, he can't start something and then just stop before he's taken it as far as it will go. Like he did with the running; once he didn't have pills, he got addicted to running until he was running 17 miles a day. And then he ran the accents into the ground. It's just part of his personality.

[2DreamFire]

Good first post.

Out of those, he's by far and away best at versatility. He's always switching up his sound, and his voice. You can almost pinpoint the time period when he recorded a track (say, if something leaks it's easy to figure out) because of how he sounds.

I think he's amazing at the others too. His flow is, 95% of the time, very enjoyable to listen to coupled with great delivery (I enjoy all of his style, but some for example may not like the accent delivery).

What is he worst at? I'd say taking a specific style too far, or maybe it just seems too far. When all we had was Relapse, all we heard was accents and it got old. Now when you look back on it, it's not so bad. Same goes for "shouting". He should mix up all his styles and give us them in small doses, depending on what the beat tells him to do.

Thank you! You didn't have to choose out of those. Anyway, I definitely agree with you about him being the best at versatility. That's why you can't just take one of his songs from one album and stick it in another. It would seem out of place.

I also agree with you about him taking a specific style too far, but like Amaranthine said, he's an addict and I don't think he can help doing it sometimes. Then again, if that's completely true, you gotta wonder why it didn't happen in his earlier albums. It did happen, but not as much. I don't think I'm explaining myself well here. lol

[EminemBase]

When at his best, he's pretty much the best in every department.

Rhyming, flow, structure, delivery... everything.

But when he's bad? or questionable? well, it's really only the subject-matter that bothers me. He's never been really bad for me, in basically any department.

On Encore he was just lazy, and fucking around. But when he put effort in ("Evil Deeds", "Mosh", "Crazy In Love") he was still good. Not as good, but some great high points, and very consistent. And even at his worst he's often better than a lot of over-rated so called greats.

I'd say his major flaw content wise is self-obsession. Most rappers are self-obsessed but I think he takes the cake in that department. And it's a shame, as now at least... I feel it's a waste of his talent. Think of how ingeniously he can analyze OTHER people as well ("Bully"). So imagine him dedicated to looking OUTSIDE of himself...

It would open up a whole new world and he could practically have a whole new career of excellence. People only sound tired when they keep trying to re-invent the same thing.

And whilst he's always able to successfully create new styles (amazing that he's still finding ways after seven solo albums) - he keeps circulating the same subjects. He finds new ways to talk about the subjects, or put new spins on them, but tales of self woes have become more than tired.

"Mosh" is a great example of him applying his talent to write about something worth writing about, other than himself. And he shines on it. I consider "Mosh" excellent and that was him at his LOWEST point. Imagine if he had decided to write it in 2002.

That's basically the only thing that seriously frustrates me about him. I loved the Relapse style(s) and I love the shouting style. I've only had a problem with the shitty production that is still continuously ruining potential classic songs. But when he utilizes the shouting to the max like on the "Fame" (D12) verse, or in particular "Above the Law", it's like cocaine. So satisfying.

I wish that he'd do repeated rhyme schemes more too, like on "Fame". It sounds brilliant.

So yeah, every time I hear him spit another verse about sporadic shit, mock mysoginy, his past or present status again, it fucking annoys me.

He also treats music too formulaic I think. This works for him when it comes to lyrics and consistency but when making songs, it now works against him. He should be experimenting more as he sticks to this VERSE 1 / CHORUS / VERSE 2 / CHORUS / VERSE 3 / CHORUS structure constantly. I wish he was like Kanye and just asked "why not?" about every element of song making, fucked with choruses and ideas and had inflated, grandeur ambitions.

Think about the amount of song possibilities. Everybody thinks so small and is so lame. Why not just make a 'stream of consciousness' song - fuck sense, fuck logic, fuck 'rules' within rap, fuck sensibility, fuck perception, just let thoughts fly and flow and make it into a cohesive piece of music. Just experiment like this, the possibilities and exciting potential, is endless.

You could make a song called "Confusion" for example and have it be on the topic of confusion, dig into your own and the world's psyche, rap sporadically and manically about politics, the economy, rap music, consciousness, people, society etc. etc. - everything and how it's confusing and tie it into a theme. Treat songs like movies, be totally extreme and try to make the greatest record of your life every time you do it. It annoys me he, or nobody I can think of, thinks like that. Literally try to embody confusion in your execution and the song's beat and structure etc.

I mean even Kanye, yeah he's amazingly ambitious with the production and sometimes he ventures into interesting territory with a line or two but generally speaking it's just: love, money, himself and public perception, bragging, rapping about what he's done etc. it's so fucking lame and repetitive. Think of what petty fucking thinking that is... I just don't get why there basically hasn't been a single rapper that's thought outside of this. I know there are probably tons of very experimental hip hop acts, underground, that I haven't heard or that are more in this area, but even from the more experimental I've briefly glanced at... it's still rooted and formed in a basic structure.

The Marshall Mathers LP was sheer genius due to it being a live provocation on which he assumed that the world was listening, it's a concept record in a sense, it's the only significant dedication to a grand and daring concept I've ever seen in rap. I've heard plenty of daring and exciting LINES, but they're just lines... within basic songs, about basic things.

I don't get why rappers think of creative lines but not creative song ideas. It's so fucking endless, people think so formulaic and realistic. / rant.

[Mr Change]

When at his best, he's pretty much the best in every department.

Rhyming, flow, structure, delivery... everything.

But when he's bad? or questionable? well, it's really only the subject-matter that bothers me. He's never been really bad for me, in basically any department.

On Encore he was just lazy, and fucking around. But when he put effort in ("Evil Deeds", "Mosh", "Crazy In Love") he was still good. Not as good, but some great high points, and very consistent. And even at his worst he's often better than a lot of over-rated so called greats.

I'd say his major flaw content wise is self-obsession. Most rappers are self-obsessed but I think he takes the cake in that department. And it's a shame, as now at least... I feel it's a waste of his talent. Think of how ingeniously he can analyze OTHER people as well ("Bully"). So imagine him dedicated to looking OUTSIDE of himself...

It would open up a whole new world and he could practically have a whole new career of excellence. People only sound tired when they keep trying to re-invent the same thing.

And whilst he's always able to successfully create new styles (amazing that he's still finding ways after seven solo albums) - he keeps circulating the same subjects. He finds new ways to talk about the subjects, or put new spins on them, but tales of self woes have become more than tired.

"Mosh" is a great example of him applying his talent to write about something worth writing about, other than himself. And he shines on it. I consider "Mosh" excellent and that was him at his LOWEST point. Imagine if he had decided to write it in 2002.

That's basically the only thing that seriously frustrates me about him. I loved the Relapse style(s) and I love the shouting style. I've only had a problem with the shitty production that is still continuously ruining potential classic songs. But when he utilizes the shouting to the max like on the "Fame" (D12) verse, or in particular "Above the Law", it's like cocaine. So satisfying.

I wish that he'd do repeated rhyme schemes more too, like on "Fame". It sounds brilliant.

So yeah, every time I hear him spit another verse about sporadic shit, mock mysoginy, his past or present status again, it fucking annoys me.

He also treats music too formulaic I think. This works for him when it comes to lyrics and consistency but when making songs, it now works against him. He should be experimenting more as he sticks to this VERSE 1 / CHORUS / VERSE 2 / CHORUS / VERSE 3 / CHORUS structure constantly. I wish he was like Kanye and just asked "why not?" about every element of song making, fucked with choruses and ideas and had inflated, grandeur ambitions.

Think about the amount of song possibilities. Everybody thinks so small and is so lame. Why not just make a 'stream of consciousness' song - fuck sense, fuck logic, fuck 'rules' within rap, fuck sensibility, fuck perception, just let thoughts fly and flow and make it into a cohesive piece of music. Just experiment like this, the possibilities and exciting potential, is endless.

You could make a song called "Confusion" for example and have it be on the topic of confusion, dig into your own and the world's psyche, rap sporadically and manically about politics, the economy, rap music, consciousness, people, society etc. etc. - everything and how it's confusing and tie it into a theme. Treat songs like movies, be totally extreme and try to make the greatest record of your life every time you do it. It annoys me he, or nobody I can think of, thinks like that. Literally try to embody confusion in your execution and the song's beat and structure etc.

I mean even Kanye, yeah he's amazingly ambitious with the production and sometimes he ventures into interesting territory with a line or two but generally speaking it's just: love, money, himself and public perception, bragging, rapping about what he's done etc. it's so fucking lame and repetitive. Think of what petty fucking thinking that is... I just don't get why there basically hasn't been a single rapper that's thought outside of this. I know there are probably tons of very experimental hip hop acts, underground, that I haven't heard or that are more in this area, but even from the more experimental I've briefly glanced at... it's still rooted and formed in a basic structure.

The Marshall Mathers LP was sheer genius due to it being a live provocation on which he assumed that the world was listening, it's a concept record in a sense, it's the only significant dedication to a grand and daring concept I've ever seen in rap. I've heard plenty of daring and exciting LINES, but they're just lines... within basic songs, about basic things.

I don't get why rappers think of creative lines but not creative song ideas. It's so fucking endless, people think so formulaic and realistic. / rant.

One question,

How do you do it?

Rant like that, I mean

[TorieCheng72]

He's strength is his daughter his weakness is his x-wife, no one likes DRAMA. However, his latest SH*t is pretty plausible & relatable. Not a major FAN from back in the DAY, anyone who would bring a blow up doll of his ex on stage just ain't there 4 the time being. He seems 2 have CHANGED. I guess. WhateVA

[Mr Change]

He's strength is his daughter his weakness is his x-wife, no one likes DRAMA. However, his latest SH*t is pretty plausible & relatable. Not a major FAN from back in the DAY, anyone who would bring a blow up doll of his ex on stage just ain't there 4 the time being. He seems 2 have CHANGED. I guess. WhateVA

[TorieCheng72]

Get what ur saying ur a fan from WAY, back. C, not me. Yes. EM is a lyicist, and a good one. He MAKES sense, however, years ago his direction was mislead, and there is way more appropriate SH* t 2 squeal about, universal health care, free drug testing, baseball, football, pringles, Doritos, avacados etc. Ruffles, eggsland best ya get it. The RAYS & The Bucs. So there. Drama free.

[Mr Change]

Get what ur saying ur a fan from WAY, back. C, not me. Yes. EM is a lyicist, and a good one. He MAKES sense, however, years ago his direction was mislead, and there is way more appropriate SH* t 2 squeal about, universal health care, free drug testing, baseball, football, pringles, Doritos, avacados etc. Ruffles, eggsland best ya get it. The RAYS & The Bucs. So there. Drama free.

x2

[TorieCheng72]

The Bucs won the Rays won, c thank you 4 your kind words, 2 ur mutha. Never think I'm off guard. Ha.

[Man1x]

When at his best, he's pretty much the best in every department.

Rhyming, flow, structure, delivery... everything.

But when he's bad? or questionable? well, it's really only the subject-matter that bothers me. He's never been really bad for me, in basically any department.

On Encore he was just lazy, and fucking around. But when he put effort in ("Evil Deeds", "Mosh", "Crazy In Love") he was still good. Not as good, but some great high points, and very consistent. And even at his worst he's often better than a lot of over-rated so called greats.

I'd say his major flaw content wise is self-obsession. Most rappers are self-obsessed but I think he takes the cake in that department. And it's a shame, as now at least... I feel it's a waste of his talent. Think of how ingeniously he can analyze OTHER people as well ("Bully"). So imagine him dedicated to looking OUTSIDE of himself...

It would open up a whole new world and he could practically have a whole new career of excellence. People only sound tired when they keep trying to re-invent the same thing.

And whilst he's always able to successfully create new styles (amazing that he's still finding ways after seven solo albums) - he keeps circulating the same subjects. He finds new ways to talk about the subjects, or put new spins on them, but tales of self woes have become more than tired.

"Mosh" is a great example of him applying his talent to write about something worth writing about, other than himself. And he shines on it. I consider "Mosh" excellent and that was him at his LOWEST point. Imagine if he had decided to write it in 2002.

That's basically the only thing that seriously frustrates me about him. I loved the Relapse style(s) and I love the shouting style. I've only had a problem with the shitty production that is still continuously ruining potential classic songs. But when he utilizes the shouting to the max like on the "Fame" (D12) verse, or in particular "Above the Law", it's like cocaine. So satisfying.

I wish that he'd do repeated rhyme schemes more too, like on "Fame". It sounds brilliant.

So yeah, every time I hear him spit another verse about sporadic shit, mock mysoginy, his past or present status again, it fucking annoys me.

He also treats music too formulaic I think. This works for him when it comes to lyrics and consistency but when making songs, it now works against him. He should be experimenting more as he sticks to this VERSE 1 / CHORUS / VERSE 2 / CHORUS / VERSE 3 / CHORUS structure constantly. I wish he was like Kanye and just asked "why not?" about every element of song making, fucked with choruses and ideas and had inflated, grandeur ambitions.

Think about the amount of song possibilities. Everybody thinks so small and is so lame. Why not just make a 'stream of consciousness' song - fuck sense, fuck logic, fuck 'rules' within rap, fuck sensibility, fuck perception, just let thoughts fly and flow and make it into a cohesive piece of music. Just experiment like this, the possibilities and exciting potential, is endless.

You could make a song called "Confusion" for example and have it be on the topic of confusion, dig into your own and the world's psyche, rap sporadically and manically about politics, the economy, rap music, consciousness, people, society etc. etc. - everything and how it's confusing and tie it into a theme. Treat songs like movies, be totally extreme and try to make the greatest record of your life every time you do it. It annoys me he, or nobody I can think of, thinks like that. Literally try to embody confusion in your execution and the song's beat and structure etc.

I mean even Kanye, yeah he's amazingly ambitious with the production and sometimes he ventures into interesting territory with a line or two but generally speaking it's just: love, money, himself and public perception, bragging, rapping about what he's done etc. it's so fucking lame and repetitive. Think of what petty fucking thinking that is... I just don't get why there basically hasn't been a single rapper that's thought outside of this. I know there are probably tons of very experimental hip hop acts, underground, that I haven't heard or that are more in this area, but even from the more experimental I've briefly glanced at... it's still rooted and formed in a basic structure.

The Marshall Mathers LP was sheer genius due to it being a live provocation on which he assumed that the world was listening, it's a concept record in a sense, it's the only significant dedication to a grand and daring concept I've ever seen in rap. I've heard plenty of daring and exciting LINES, but they're just lines... within basic songs, about basic things.

I don't get why rappers think of creative lines but not creative song ideas. It's so fucking endless, people think so formulaic and realistic. / rant.

I wanna pick your brain cause I would really want to experiment by I can't think of anything... :/
Soooo what would YOU do for a new format.

Maybe something along the lines of Verse 1/Verse 2/Verse 3 with a hook playing in the background? I can't see a song getting big without a hook and record companies would never except something without a hook unless it sell better. Plus, the only kind of verbal formats that exist are hooks, bridges, and verses. Or are you thinking simpler outside of creating a unknown style such as..

Hook/Verse 1/Hook/Verse 2/Bridge/Verse 3/Hook? That would however be the Airplanes Part 2 format which is less used but common enough.

[Man1x]

I think he means just make it different altogether. Do different things that are never used.

Hook - Verse lasting the whole song

But that's been done...ugh this makes my head hurt cause you'd have to create a middle ground between those two and IDK if thats possible

[Man1x]

That song goes Intro/Rap & Singign' Verse 1/Intrumental Pause/Rap Verse 1/Rap Verse 2/Rap Verse 3/Hook.

Correct if I'm wrong on that above. And yea it's different, probably the most different thing I've seen. Hope it's like this through out Radioactive but if his beats arn't good I can see his sales going away fast cause that style is dependent on a good beat imo. It and his singing are what want you to continue, not the format.

[Man1x]

Well he has Eminem's guidance, and probably a feature / beat as well, so it can't be too bad.

and I'll buy it if I like it, so there's 1 sale.

I'm buying it regardless, already know I will like it cause YelaWolf really resonates with me once I got used to his accent, which I now love. Dude is talented, but on the subject of Eminem. He is very good with his experiment on delivery, flow, rhyme structure etc. but the most experimental song formate I've seen him do is on Hailie's song (albums songs only of course). So Yela takes the cake in this field imo