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Prolific Writing

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Re: Prolific Writing

Postby Sam. » Dec 1st, '11, 23:16

JamaicanPattlez wrote:
Mr.DGAF wrote:
JamaicanPattlez wrote:I agree.. but who knows! I mean, there might be that one rapper coming out right now that needs a chance. Once he does, BOOM! I'm just optimistic though. :sweating: I'm not saying he's the next Eminem, I'm saying he could he great too and probably on an equal level if he really strived for it. :y:


I suppose anything is possible, which is why you shouldn't say never. It'd be crazy though, because it'd have to be someone that, at least at that time, didn't give a fuck what anyone thought about him/her.



I could see someone completely not giving a fuck. They'd have to be ballsy and point out everything that's "wrong" with the mainstream nowadays... which would be one hell of a move.

A copy cat? Nah.
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Re: Prolific Writing

Postby Devil'sAdvocate » Dec 1st, '11, 23:32

InsaneTRex94 wrote:
Trimss wrote:Lmao. I loved Relapse since it came out.. I admit the serial killer thing was kinda creepy at first but then the vibe, the accent, everything made me love it. Relapse is really a dark album that I see like a movie, i can picture almost any song on it, I make a music video for each one of them in my head.

And I also agree about his writing, I think there's a huge problem with Eminem "old fans", they can't really appreciate his music because they're stuck in the past and nostalgic. Everything he makes now is automatically less good than things he has done in his prime.

Songs like Déjà Vu, Going Through Changes (just to quote these two, because I feel like they are just perfect) could be in his top 10 tracks of all time.

The cynical side in Déjà Vu is just awesome, the way he talks about himself.. Wow. :b:


This.
I feel like his writing is better than it's been since round SSEP/SSLP. Especially those two you mentioned, the story he tells with both are great.
I wish some old fans would just shut the fuck up.

I've always loved Relapse, I was one of the only ones in the school who did back in '09. And I appreciate Recovery for what it is.

FUCKING HALT RIGHT THERE SON!

im giving you the red eye right now homie,Em's writing will never come close to how accurate and good it was back in the SSEP/SSLP days.

proceed....
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Re: Prolific Writing

Postby Innovation » Dec 2nd, '11, 00:00

^ TES. :tounge2:

Unless you're speaking about the current Em, then you're probably right. He has shown flashes of brilliance though.
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Re: Prolific Writing

Postby EminemBase » Dec 2nd, '11, 02:06

Sam. wrote:A copy cat? Nah.


We can never predict what's round the corner though...

We can try, but who the fuck saw Eminem coming. Especially after 2Pac.
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Re: Prolific Writing

Postby JamaicanPattlez » Dec 2nd, '11, 02:43

EminemBase wrote:
Sam. wrote:A copy cat? Nah.


We can never predict what's round the corner though...

We can try, but who the fuck saw Eminem coming. Especially after 2Pac.


Exactly my point... I mean we lost Pac, then a few years later, here comes Young Marshy onto the scene with a lot to prove. I mean to say that out of 7 billion people, only Eminem could do what he did is crazy. Well, not crazy, because Em did certain things nobody else could, but hopefully it's clearer. That would mean that nobody has the potential anymore to be legendary, and honestly, let's at least wait before we say that. That same legend may not even be here yet.
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Re: Prolific Writing

Postby Man1x » Dec 2nd, '11, 02:59

@JP

If you look at the history of music there is one legend person per genre of music then people come close in popularity but don't surpass them. This kind of goes for skill, but the only legends that haven't yet been surpassed in their genre are Eminem and Michael Jackson.

Legends:

Eminem - Hip Hop/Rap
Michael Jackson - Pop
Elvis - Rock (However you could say the Beatles beat his ass but he is a solo act so it don't count)
Bob Marley - Reggae
Beegie Boys - Disco
N/A - Alternative (Kind of debatable, Coldplay and Radiohead are the front runners, most likely going to be Coldplay though due to popularity)
N/A - Dub Step (Looking like it going be Skrillex)
N/A - Christian (To small and not popular at all to pick at this point, probably will never be a legend here)
N/A - All the other small genres. (Possible new genres will raise to popularity like Dub Step is now and legends may be formed in these genres. But ask yourself this, what more can artists touch on?)

Course I could be wrong, don't get me wrong. Eminem set a high standard, I mean it would almost be impossible for a rapper to surpass him in the reaction factor. Plus, the "new" legend you would be eluding to would have to completely innovative and new, they'd have to be something the masses never heard on and do things never touched on. In this day and age this is nearly impossible, if not already impossible because artist have covered all thinkable subjects. They, truly, are now reduced to thinking of twists and redoing the same concept over and over again in different forms. The next legend, if there will ever be one (highly likely there will never be one) will have to be mind blowing beyond mind blowing, like make you shit your pants impressive.
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Re: Prolific Writing

Postby Man1x » Dec 2nd, '11, 03:03

Menzo wrote:A new Mr. Don't Give A Fuck will come and even if he does sound like Em, doesn't mean he's copying Em...it just shows he has a similar mind state. Hell, the next one could be a fuckin femcee - we don't know.

But let's get back to talking about Marshy's prolificness in literature.


The new Mr. Don't Give A Fuck would have to be more provocative and talented than Eminem, he set that bar high. But anyway, Marshy got lyrics that speak for themselves, jump off the page, and beat your ass.
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Re: Prolific Writing

Postby JamaicanPattlez » Dec 2nd, '11, 03:09

Menzo wrote:A new Mr. Don't Give A Fuck will come and even if he does sound like Em, doesn't mean he's copying Em...it just shows he has a similar mind state. Hell, the next one could be a fuckin femcee - we don't know.

But let's get back to talking about Marshy's prolificness in literature.


This.

And Man1x, that may be true, but that's what imagination's for! ;) He wouldn't even have to be provocative, just get people thinking. I'm optimistic, but maybe that's because if a future legend comes, I wanna work with him (Or her).

But yes... Eminem's writing is incredible. Full of tedious work ethic. You can tell his heart's in it.
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Re: Prolific Writing

Postby Man1x » Dec 2nd, '11, 03:14

Menzo wrote:I was listening to Sing For The Moment last night, like...REALLY listening and...his writing and eloquence in delivering his heart-felt message on behalf of all artists (especially in the closing bars of the last verse) is so fuckin...un-fuck-with-able.


And that's why I started rap, to out do him. I know I'm no where near that level but hell, it's worth a shot. Also, things like Lose Yourself, Brain Damage, Kim, Stan. I look at these songs, these verses, and I just feel like nothing will ever compare to the originality, story telling, lyrical ability he displayed, and music he provided. Really, this is the case for SSLP, MMLP, & TES.

Supporting my claims, Eminem > *Every fuckin artist.

And for the record, by many people Eminem is still underrated, which we all know, by music heads (not most hip hop heads) due to him being a hip hop/rap artist and white. When he dies he will go down with such an amazing legacy and will finally get that recognition.
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Re: Prolific Writing

Postby EminemBase » Dec 2nd, '11, 03:26

Menzo wrote:I was listening to Sing For The Moment last night, like...REALLY listening and...his writing and eloquence in delivering his heart-felt message on behalf of all artists (especially in the closing bars of the last verse) is so fuckin...un-fuck-with-able.


True. He has an emotional conviction and, just sounds so fucking good that even people who hate him rarely deny he's talented. You cannot deny lyrics like...

"That's why we cease the moment, try to freeze it and own, squeeze it and hold it - cause we consider these minutes golden. And maybe they'll admit it when we're gone... just let our spirits live on through our lyrics that you hear in our songs"

That is just, powerful writing.

My dad purposely tries to snub Em but will always admit he's extremely talented. I've never heard a rapper with as much conviction as Em though, in terms of, his delivery.
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Re: Prolific Writing

Postby EminemBase » Dec 2nd, '11, 04:03

Menzo wrote:
EminemBase wrote:
Menzo wrote:I was listening to Sing For The Moment last night, like...REALLY listening and...his writing and eloquence in delivering his heart-felt message on behalf of all artists (especially in the closing bars of the last verse) is so fuckin...un-fuck-with-able.


True. He has an emotional conviction and, just sounds so fucking good that even people who hate him rarely deny he's talented. You cannot deny lyrics like...

"That's why we cease the moment, try to freeze it and own, squeeze it and hold it - cause we consider these minutes golden. And maybe they'll admit it when we're gone... just let our spirits live on through our lyrics that you hear in our songs"

That is just, powerful writing.

My dad purposely tries to snub Em but will always admit he's extremely talented. I've never heard a rapper with as much conviction as Em though, in terms of, his delivery.


Ah, those closing bars are so good. It's so climactic and perfectly sums up the entirety of that song. 10/10 for me.

Hey man, even if your dad snubs him, it's good that he admits TALENT when he sees it, even if he doesn't scrutinize Em's work as much as we do. I don't think my parents even know what a multisyllabic rhyme is, it's all the same to them. I know a girl who hates Eminem because "he's fuckin shit and he's white"...even if you don't like an OBVIOUSLY talented artist, you have to admit skill when it is there.

I'm not that big on Kanye's recent work, but I will admit as an artistic visionary, he's absolutely outstanding.


Yeah well what I've realized is... well firstly I'm a lot smarter than my parents and I think a rule of thumb for kids predisposed to intelligence is, they will probably be smarter than their parents. As they will inevitably grow up in a faster, more advanced, in-depth world. And so their mind will be shaped around that and help build... what the fuck am I on about lmao...

ANYWAY - I used to think as a kid, that they understood Eminem but disliked him due to the profanity etc. but now I realize that, they don't properly understand him.

But I've forced Eminem appreciation on everybody around me over the years anyway lmao. Explaining witty lines and emphasizing why and how they're brilliant.

I'm fairly convinced too that a lot of his Slim Shady LP era punchlines were LSD influenced. As in, after he had taken it or during it maybe. LSD is my favourite drug and I know from experience it makes you see things from odd perspectives you wouldn't otherwise think of...

Such as this line:
"Put a knife in an envelope and have you stabbed in the mail"

Sounds like such an LSD idea. It's animated... creative.

Also this in particular:
"I'm pre-disaster, I fuck shit up before it happens!"

LSD does inspire this kind of mind boggle thinking ie. fucking something up before it 'happens' lmao. And when you mix LSD with an already creative and intelligent mind, especially to the degree of Eminem... magic happens.

I don't believe that was the source of his creativity by the way. Just possibly, some of that ingenious wit, as I have thought similar things on LSD. And we know he was taking it around that time, the album art / content speaks for itself.

It's also crazy that... if you look at the lines I posted from like 1999. He went from THAT to "Sing for the Moment" in just three years. Complete new level of maturity, respect, authority, conviction, could be a different rapper. No other rapper makes that kind of growth besides Kanye.

And yes you're right about Kanye. He is a special artist as he is obsessive, relentless, determined, egotistical and unwilling to compromise. These things make a great artist. And he definitely is doing very big things artistically lately. Just, that "Power" video... firstly the concept of the song is brilliant, but to then just encapsulate it in that way, wow.

I think it's not long before Kanye has a major failure though as, despite his attempts to stay humble etc. - after the recognition of 'Dark Fantasy' and Watch the Throne, he really will begin to believe he is god. I am Bipolar by the way and Ye seems very likely to be given his moods and outbursts etc. and also egotism. Egotism is a big thing with mania. And I personally think he's been on a manic creative spree, but constant praise to a manic person who is Bipolar will just feed into their ego deeper and deeper, he lets it known sometimes but inside he's probably thinking crazy shit.

I've often thought I'm the smartest human alive etc.

I think he's still on his way up but he's going to eventually believe his own hype and end up constructing something misguided. No other artist I can think of has escaped that fate. If Kanye does then I'll be amazed, though... he just may well surprise me.

I hope Kanye's ambition inspires Em to think bigger.
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Re: Prolific Writing

Postby Accor » Dec 2nd, '11, 04:31

After reading some posts on this thread about the lines that sound LSD influenced, I kind of started thinking. He used to have lines like that A LOT. The "have you stabbed in the mail" line, and stuff like "I'll lift you off your feet so fast with a roundhouse you'll think I pulled the fuckin ground out from underneath you".

I loved when he used to say shit like that, have any of you noticed anything like that recently?
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Re: Prolific Writing

Postby EminemBase » Dec 2nd, '11, 04:35

Menzo wrote:What irks me is that there is no sign of any upcoming artist that can touch the extra-terrestrial presence that Em has produced as a writer and rapper and what Kanye has produced (and continues to) as a visionary.

We're doomed.


Yeah well I honestly haven't heard anyone since Em or anybody in history that rivals Em at his best.

To me, Em is the Tyson of rap.

Tyson to me was the greatest (regardless of records, I just mean technical) heavyweight and one of the greatest boxers ever because he could do almost every single aspect as well as the next.

A lot of heavyweights had their strong and weak points. Foreman was a huge hitter for example but had awful defence. Tyson on the other hand was as fast as he was powerful. As powerful as he was illusive, and incredibly accurate. He was a machine.

It's like he was just born to box. I've never seen any fighter, not even Ali, as good as Tyson in that sense. Every single punch is thrown so perfectly, no flappy form, everything is as it should be.

And that's what I feel Eminem is in rap because you have other great rappers that have their strong points and weak points... 2Pac did songs about his community and society, he stood up against issues and also made it emotional. But that was his strength, then you have Nas, who's strength is probably... loose narrative storytelling, smooth, and politics.

But then you have Em, he can make music for any mood and is basically as good at all of them. He can be as funny (and I don't mean the goofy first singles, I mean his classic wit) as he can damning, he can be as angry as he can political, as he can poetical. He has the potential to do all and then you have his technical ability, endless flows and styles.

That's just the technical side of it, and there's certainly some rappers that can compete in some technical aspects with him but when it comes to content? not even close. Never heard another ARTIST period with content as compelling as his best work.

It's like audio theatre. I feel like 2Pac is the Ali of rap and Eminem is the Tyson of rap. 2Pac, like Ali, called himself the greatest, was loud, a showman, shrewd and emotional... and he's also the one people generally (generic rap fans) call the greatest of all time.

This is the same for Ali with boxing. But when you actually examine Tyson vs. Ali, regardless of who would of won (I would predict Tyson knocking Ali out within 6 rounds), Tyson towers above Ali in skill, despite people saying Ali is the most skilled of all time. Ali was very skilled, and fast. But he was nowhere near as accurate or powerful as Tyson.

Tyson, like Em, came after that initial particular 'great one' though and they're both live wires, so people often feel obliged to place them 2nd at least.

On the subject of Tyson by the way, most serious heavyweight analysts or fans probably would only place him at 9-15 greatest of all time. But in terms of form, skill and just boxing awe, no other heavyweight comes close. Same with Em in mainstream rap.
Last edited by EminemBase on Dec 2nd, '11, 04:37, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Prolific Writing

Postby EminemBase » Dec 2nd, '11, 04:38

^ "Cinderella Man" is fucking awesome.

One of my favourite songs from him in a while. The lyricism is POTENT.

He really hit his stride with that style, very powerful. And yes, do reply :8)
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Re: Prolific Writing

Postby Graphic » Dec 2nd, '11, 05:07

This whole thread was really interesting to read.

Kind of going in a different direction here, but EminemBase, who do you think is the greatest rapper of all time?
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