Eminem's production is currently overrated

[Kill You]

No it's not, I love his production. Just love those types of beats.

[momentsgolden]

I like the song Underground on Relapse. I like it very much. But, just the other day, i was listening to some tracks on shuffle and it came just after Rabbit Run. The flow was ok. The lyrics were a lil downgrade. But the production was SOO noticeably inferior that i had to replay that sequence twice just to really grasp it. I agree with OP. Eminem's recent production is overrated.

Look, it has nothing to do with the beats being simple. Everyone here can pretty much agree that Tears of Joy is one of the best beats in years and yet it is not overly complex. J.U.S.T.I.C.E league made a name for themselves by creating backdrops for rappers to shine. Hell, i LOVE asylum. But the eminembase (he started it) praise for simple eminem beats does get out of hand. They are good. They may even be the perfect beats for HIM to rap on. But comparing them to "most other producers" and claiming they are better because of their simplicity is just plain disrespectful.

To Amadeo- Claiming complex beats are for simple people is also incorrect. Pharrell, Emancipator, Enya, freaking Quincy Jones all had some pretty complex beats and are legendary artists for the nuances they bring to their productions.

Hip-hop should encompass all its elements. It should have some innovate, progressive production and even let that lead the way and the lyrics follow (Read GRODT/ MBDTF). It should have progressive lyricists. It should embrace the Korean dance crews, The European visual envelopes.

To the one who said TES has weak beats, i wanna be polite (and i will be, coz u a girl who listens to em so i like you) but just go away. You know nothing.

[Jimmy Conway]

Symphony in H sucked. Even the beat. I like almost all Eminem beats. Snare sounded like a trash can.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmULaBcrdb0
Ear magic

[_Hawk_]

I like the song Underground on Relapse. I like it very much. But, just the other day, i was listening to some tracks on shuffle and it came just after Rabbit Run. The flow was ok. The lyrics were a lil downgrade. But the production was SOO noticeably inferior that i had to replay that sequence twice just to really grasp it. I agree with OP. Eminem's recent production is overrated.

Look, it has nothing to do with the beats being simple. Everyone here can pretty much agree that Tears of Joy is one of the best beats in years and yet it is not overly complex. J.U.S.T.I.C.E league made a name for themselves by creating backdrops for rappers to shine. Hell, i LOVE asylum. But the eminembase (he started it) praise for simple eminem beats does get out of hand. They are good. They may even be the perfect beats for HIM to rap on. But comparing them to "most other producers" and claiming they are better because of their simplicity is just plain disrespectful.

To Amadeo- Claiming complex beats are for simple people is also incorrect. Pharrell, Emancipator, Enya, freaking Quincy Jones all had some pretty complex beats and are legendary artists for the nuances they bring to their productions.

Hip-hop should encompass all its elements. It should have some innovate, progressive production and even let that lead the way and the lyrics follow (Read GRODT/ MBDTF). It should have progressive lyricists. It should embrace the Korean dance crews, The European visual envelopes.

To the one who said TES has weak beats, i wanna be polite (and i will be, coz u a girl who listens to em so i like you) but just go away. You know nothing.

Great post

Eminem has produced some awesome tracks. There is no denying that.
But people are again failing to realise that I am mostly focusing on his recent production. He has nothing amazing to his credit. Perhaps his own production best suits him, but it is difficult to judge: especially when the bass-brother's influence is taken into account.

As a point of trivia, Kanye produced the track Stir-Crazy which Eminem featured on. Whilst I don't want this thread to degenerate into a pointless debate about how Kanye is a better produced, this track clearly shows the breadth of Kanye's production skills.

Personally I think Eminem would fit easily onto a track like Heard Em Say or So Appalled.

[Despicable]

EMs beats overrated on this site? Fuck yes.
People praise his shit up in the skies and hoping for the next EM album to be self produced..Im not so sure i want that,some of his beats are dope and he sounds great on them but it can be a bit too much for a whole album.

[NeverSincerely]

I'm not saying it isn't a great album, but unless you're actively listening to everything he's saying, the album is a bit, dare I say it, boring.

Translation: unless you're not simple-minded, the album is a bit boring.

The same kind of person who needs to watch movies with EXPLOSIONS. "What's with all this dialogue bullshit? I need some BOOM BOOM BOOM."

*Buys Transformers on Netflix*

Keyword being casually. I mostly listen to music while doing art, so I can't fully concentrate on it. When I sit down and concentrate on listening to the album I thoroughly enjoy it and it's far from boring. But thanks for making a sweeping generalization about me with only an out of context quote to back it up. It really shows everyone who the simple minded person in this conversation is.

[Jimmy Conway]

I respect your opinion but I disagree...I think the beat is Dope AF along with his verse...Hope we can get the beat without EM on it...

The beat you posted is amazing I love it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atfdiLArJz4


And to the guy that said that a Em produced album would be a little much....EMINEM SHOW

[NeverSincerely]

To the one who said TES has weak beats, i wanna be polite (and i will be, coz u a girl who listens to em so i like you) but just go away. You know nothing.

I never said it had weak beats. I was just trying to say it's production, while it complements the rapping on the album, isn't something that can hold my attention nor is it as extraordinary as some of you make it out to be. I can see it's appeal, but outside of a few tracks on the album, the production is not somthing that greatly appeals to me.

[CanadaPure]

I actually agree with NeverSincerely about the production on The Eminem Show (I think). For me at least, the album is incredible and everything fits and compliments itself nicely. However, if I just had the album on as background noise or wasn't really listening to the words, most of the production isn't spectacularly interesting.

I still think the production is good, and it really does fit with Em's lyrics well. For casual listening (as in, not really paying attention and just having it on) though, they majority of the beats were almost dry and pretty repetitive even though they sound good when you pay attention to the songs fully.

Still one of my favorite albums out there though.

[Jason M.]

I agree. I really hope if he's producing a majority of the next solo that he can be more innovative with his beats. While I don't mind his production, it can be monotonous at times. TES is probably my least favorite of his solo albums to listen to casually because of the production. I'm not saying it isn't a great album, but unless you're actively listening to everything he's saying, the album is a bit, dare I say it, boring. Simple beats is fine for a few songs, but I'd rather not have another album full of them.

Thank you so much.

[B.A.D.]

But I will say, Yeezus' production aside from a song or two (maybe three) was complete fucking trash. A clutter of sound, screaming and random samples - fuck outta here. Being "different" doesn't always mean "innovative" or "unique" - it could mean being straight fuckin' retarded and shit.

I agree

like I said before, Kanye's idea to make hip hop music more innovative and complex is good, his intentions were really good, but he didn't make it correctly, he exaggerated and displayed a big lack of musical knowledge. A Lot of screams, electronic hits and over abused track sampling does not go well with his idea to be innovated.

Let me give you an example, yesterday I had a party with some mates from Uni. (we studied Audio Production) we know what we are talking about 100% un-biased. I played the Kanye album... They hated it, because they understood that. His intention was good and innovative... the actual practice and performance was horrible and wrong. The critics are not correct, its all a business on the media, they dont care shit less about the album, this companies work in money and that is ALL, no more and no less.

Kanye West's new album is 5 our of 10.

And about Eminem's production.

Yes its overrated, but it fits Eminem, and it sounds good and I personally enjoyed this beat more and got me more wowed than any other beat I can remember this past couple of months. (except Let Nas Down, that sample is amazing)

[TheGentlePlayer]

"Banging beatz" are for simple people. Beats should only be there to bring life to lyrics.

Couldn't agree more!

[EminemInsider]

Have you listened to SSLP?

The beats are some of the simplest shit you'll ever hear, yet the album is a certified classic.
Maybe it's because his recent verses lack ad-libs or whatever, and it made you feel that way...maybe.

With Eminem, you don't focus on beats like in an album of Kanye's or even Dre. You look for ad-libs, lyrics, flows, raw delivery. I'm not saying that beats aren't important in hip-hop by the way.

Where do you get the idea the beats on SSLP are "simple?" I think you're confusing "simple" with, "less saturated." More/louder bass doesn't make a beat more complex.

Reminds me of people who think "good, more complex" animation means predictable poses that never vary from generic drawings on a model sheet, with backgrounds that were drawn on a mathematical grid with straight, sharp edges and monochromatic airbrushed primary colored paint. "But but but...this is so much SHINIER...and BRIGHTER...and everything is symmetrical. The other stuff is (intentionally) asymmetrical and looks like a human actually drew and painted everything. That stuff is SIMPLE!"

[Whitefox]

I agree with Amadeo. Why should people give a fuck about beat in a rap song? If you really give then go listen to some chill-out, idm, minimal, even dubstep or whatever. And I dont think that Em's production is overrated here, he makes good beats which fit him perfectly.

[_Hawk_]

How does it reach new grounds musically? What is new about it?

Rap isn't just about the lyrics...but the lyrics should be the main appeal of a rap song, just like the dialogue/story/characters should be the main appeal of a movie. A good beat should be a nice bonus to a rap song, and good graphics/special FX/animation should be a nice bonus to a movie.

It reached new grounds musically in terms of sound and orientation within the rap genre. Different is not always best, but it keeps an artist fresh and offers different styles of music to listen to. I have never been a big Kanye fan (mostly because I prefer lyrical artists) but I enjoy listening to him, and I really enjoy Yeezus. Music, as you later say, is subjective to listen to, but the point which you fail to realise is that sometimes lyrics are not everything. John Lennon did not use insane rhyming patterns to reach out to the world. Whilst within rap the lyrics mean a lot more, it is best for an artist to decide when it is appropriate to use such rhyming schemes. Occasionally simplicity is the best tool for reaching out to people.

You could debate this point all day. We clearly have different musical tastes.

"Artist" and "rapper" really mean the same thing...unless you mean Eminem's technically the best rapper, which he's not. Not by a long shot. He had a nice thing going in early-to-late 2009 but that fell away. So yeah, you really have no idea what you're talking about.

You are fucking retarded. Artist and rapper do not mean the same thing. A rapper is someone operating within a genre, whilst an artist creates works of art. As you briefly acknowledge, Eminem exercises the technical abilities of a rapper, but artistically his recent work has failed to live up to his earlier genius which tracks like Stan, Sing for the Moment and 97 Bonnie and Clyde emphasised so well.

I think you are the one who has no idea what they are talking about. Eminem being accredited as the best rapper to date is only cemented after a long career. It does not happen over night. Whilst people can argue all day over whether he is the best lyrical rapper, in terms of technical ability and previous artistic impact, Eminem is untouchable. But as a rap artist he has not innovated enough to stay fresh. Whilst I agree that 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it', this is not true for Eminem. He has always changed his style with his albums, whilst straight-jacketing himself with familiar themes and album designs.

It's not what you rap about...it's how you rap about it. Kanye West raps like a primitive ape.

....

Nah, these lyrics are dog shit. Sorry.

Kanye is not a lyrical artist and this has been ascertained. I never stated that Yeezus was good lyrically, but the tracks which do carry a message are powerful to listen to. I can overlook the lack of complex rhyme schemes and appreciate the overall message.
Lyricism is balanced between a bi-polar relationship of lyrical quality (mostly through rhyme schemes) and the underlying message the lyrics entail. Lose Yourself is perhaps one of the best examples of a song which ticks all boxes.

You are pig headed if you ask for a song to always have complex rhyme schemes. This forum focuses on the multi-rhyme far too much. Earl Sweatshirt is a solid example of a rapper who feels he has to rhyme every other word, without realising this makes his rhymes dense, confusing and ultimately unlistenable.

Because production/beats are mostly a subjective thing. Trying to explain why a beat is good isn't an interesting discussion. "The beat is good because I like how it sounds." Well, why do you like how it sounds? Because...the drums and shit make cool sounds.

This is true, but it is still easy for a 'smart person' to describe why a beat is good.
Dre beats, for instance, have such a clean, simple sound; but the layering is so rich and complex it creates a beautiful mixture of sounds which are memorable and eargasmic (for want of a better word).

The Symphony in H beat, on the other hand, is simple, but lacks the same audio quality as the aforementioned (I am listening to the CDQ version). It sounds tinny to me.

It's much more interesting (at least to smart people) to discuss the quality of lyricism. "The lyrics are good because I like how they sound." Well, why do they sound good? Because of a variety of factors like rhyme schemes, flow, and various other literary techniques.

yes, but you are attempting to appear smart if you honestly believe a song has to have insane rhyme schemes. The lyrics are there to present a message, and thus the balance between message and rhyming should be consistent.

Kanye's lyricism on Yeezus was poor. Too poor. But his message on New Slaves makes the song a lot easier for me to listen to, because I enjoy the cult references and the underlying emotion and purposeful hypocrisy.

I really like the beat/production on "Runaway," but the lyrics are simple and basic. Any moron could write them.

I never said the lyrics were good. I simply stated that it is a great beat which Em could easily murder. It is better than anything Em has produced recently.

What you're saying basically boils down to, "I just want the music to sound good. I want good melodies. I don't care what the rapper is saying." That would be fine (and fairly common preference)...but your ridiculous attempt to intellectualize your tastes is pathetic.

No. It isn't. You really lack the ability to actually read between the lines. Nothing is black and white apart form my text on the page.

I am stating that music forms an overall composition. Recovery highlights that good lyricism fails when pasted over awful beats. It detracts from the meaning of the song when the composition sounds awful.
In the same vain, the artistic message of the song needs to pervade as well. The stripped back nature of Stan allowed Em's poignant message to beautifully match Dido's haunting chorus.The beat did not need to be complex. It sounded awesome.

What I am stating is that production forms a key part of one's musical experience. I appreciate Eminem's lyrics and I can look past awful beats when the lyricism is awesome, however it is obvious that his current music would benefit a lot from better production. You're Never Over would be much better with a cleaner beat. So whilst this forum praises his own production, there are no recent examples which show that he is improving as a producer, or making beats which are in any way memorable.

I do not like simple rap music, but I can enjoy rap music which sounds simple at face value (Niggas in Paris being the best example).
Artistically, Eminem is not innovating through lyricism, so there is no reason for him to not aim to improve his production to make music rather than simple looped beats. Sing for the Moment was music. That guitar solo at the end was poignantly brought back to me when I first listened to Devil in a New Dress. Both those tracks sound epic; the latter falls flat lyrically, but clearly shows the loop-hole I am targeting: when the production is epic, the lyrical quality of a rapper like Eminem will make something special.
We know he will produce amazingly lyrical songs, so if he ups his production game he will make something more than a simple rap song. It becomes what people who dislike rap call music: an actual song sheet which verges on being orchestral.