"Is Jay-Z The Greatest Of All-Time?" - Article

[M15HKA]

He was Dope as fuck and one of the greats, but he is not the goat for me.

[classthe_king]

Wow guys good posts! You totally explained why you didn't agree with OP and didn't just dismiss it with no reasoning whatsoever adding absolutely nothing to the conversation!

[Notalius]

Is Jay the GOAT?

The guy who Nas killed and Emienm killed on his own shit?

Yea sure ok. Jay's good but not GOAT.

Nobody is saying that he's the goat but one of them. There is no real goat imo

[Trimss]

1) Album sales:

Eminem and Pac did better. Nothing more to say.

2) Real time influence:

Lots of rappers have been bigger and had bigger influences. Andre, Eminem, Pac, Big, they all influenced the younger cats in the game.
Odd Future, Kendrick Lamar, J.Cole, Danny Brown, Yelawolf.. Lots of rappers have admitted being influenced by Eminem and said he was one of the best.

Not denying Jay had a huge influence though.

3) Far reaching Impact:

I guess he had a huge impact yeah. He's also a great businessman who could market his shit like a boss and that's why he's still really relevant to this day and I applause him for that. Jay-Z is a smart guy.

4) Long tenure:

That's true. You can applaud him for that. 17 years since Reasonable Doubt and he's still doing major numbers. Eminem been in the game for 14 years too, with a big hiatus.

5) Numbers on the boards:

Let's not debate numbers. Eminem has over 240 awards of all sorts, 13 grammys with like 6 albums less than Jay and also an Oscar. Em has 17 billboards awards, 14 american music awards, 11 video awards.

etc.. you know Eminem is more successful and shit I don't have to do this.

6) You could consider Eminem has three classics too.

SSLP
MMLP
TES

Those three albums are the reason why Eminem is still respected to this day even though he has been releasing sub par material.

7) Six tools:

Eminem's storytelling >
Eminem's power (shutting down Ja Rule and his label is not nothing)
Eminem can adapt too. He can ADJUSt!!!!!&111!!
Lyricism, rhymes, etc.. etc..


Here I made a poor summary of why this article considers Jay Z as THE GOAT (which he is a strong contender for, because I love Hova let's not deny it) and applied everything to Eminem.

[JamaicanPattlez]

If you were to ask people if they consider Jay-Z to be a GOAT, a lot of people would say yes. I don't think Jigga is THE GOAT though. I think he's A GOAT.

[Notalius]

If you were to ask people if they consider Jay-Z to be a GOAT, a lot of people would say yes. I don't think Jigga is THE GOAT though. I think he's A GOAT.

Something about that post made me laugh, it prolly has soemthing to do with your avy

[JamaicanPattlez]

If you were to ask people if they consider Jay-Z to be a GOAT, a lot of people would say yes. I don't think Jigga is THE GOAT though. I think he's A GOAT.

Something about that post made me laugh, it prolly has soemthing to do with your avy

[Kill You]

Trimss killin' it, fock.

[Mr Change]

1) Album sales:
Is not the highest selling hip-hop artist.

2) Real time influence:

Huge influence, but again, not the biggest influence of them all. People like Pac and Eminem edge him out over this.


3) Far reaching Impact:

Jay Z does win this one, though. He has expanded himself much farther than many other modern musicians, let alone rappers.

4) Long tenure:

Very consistent guy, not in quality but with his actual career. Not many people have been putting out albums as long as Jay. He has been a permanent face in the game.

5) Numbers on the boards:

I believe Jay wins the song-charting category, but not much else here.



That is my opinion on some categories. Jay Z is not the greatest of all time

[Raul]

Next.

[TheBlindManBlinks]

Jay-z isn't even remotely close to becoming the greatest of all time, Nas is.

[FixIt]

People over-romanticize how lyrical Jay use to be in the Reasonable Doubt days. I don’t mean that to downplay him actually, he’s still very good. The real difference between how Jay use to sound and how he sounds now is that Jay learned how to better craft a song rather than rapid fire lyricism. No, I’m not talking about how fast he rapped. Go back and listen to Dead Presidents, the rhyme density is distinctly larger than it is in the present. The metaphors, similes, repetition, etc. are all pretty much still of the same quality they’re just more spaced apart in each line and verse.

[EminemBase]

Wow guys good posts! You totally explained why you didn't agree with OP and didn't just dismiss it with no reasoning whatsoever adding absolutely nothing to the conversation!

Okay... how about because:

- He's not very artistically inventive (limited and predictable subject-matter), no thrilling concepts, doesn't really raise the bar lyrically or with his ideas
- He's not very dramatic or thrilling
- He's not particularly bold or daring
- His recent level / care of craft is... average at best and even when at best... not the best
- His personal depth is extremely limited; opting for psuedo philosophy and soundbites instead of any true level of internal turmoil analysis or 'digging' (if he's even capable of it)
- He seems to care more about 'appearing' good than being good...
- He generally equates greatness to sales and figures instead of artistry...
- Beyond the odd song and general overall impact and longevity... he hasn't really created a single song or moment which is a game-changer or wow factor, or anything more than 'very good' or 'cool'.

I could go on but I mean, I think that's plenty to add to the conversation of why he's not even top 5. If we're talking artistry, craft, originality... and not longevity, wealth and numbers.

[fifflaren]

he is top 3 tbh

[King Lance]

Wow guys good posts! You totally explained why you didn't agree with OP and didn't just dismiss it with no reasoning whatsoever adding absolutely nothing to the conversation!

Okay... how about because:

- He's not very artistically inventive (limited and predictable subject-matter), no thrilling concepts, doesn't really raise the bar lyrically or with his ideas
- He's not very dramatic or thrilling
- He's not particularly bold or daring
- His recent level / care of craft is... average at best and even when at best... not the best
- His personal depth is extremely limited; opting for psuedo philosophy and soundbites instead of any true level of internal turmoil analysis or 'digging' (if he's even capable of it)
- He seems to care more about 'appearing' good than being good...
- He generally equates greatness to sales and figures instead of artistry...
- Beyond the odd song and general overall impact and longevity... he hasn't really created a single song or moment which is a game-changer or wow factor, or anything more than 'very good' or 'cool'.

I could go on but I mean, I think that's plenty to add to the conversation of why he's not even top 5. If we're talking artistry, craft, originality... and not longevity, wealth and numbers.

I don't think he is the goat but you shouldn't downgrade his talent like that tbh, I posted this article because I thought it would have been interesting to talk about it tbh.


- He's not very artistically inventive (limited and predictable subject-matter), no thrilling concepts, doesn't really raise the bar lyrically or with his ideas
Prime Jay-z has some of the best one liners in hip hop and he has quotables for days, he definitely influenced a lot of artists lyrically. The fact that he influenced a lot of people and that a lot of rappers sound like him is a proof that he was innovative tbh
- "His recent level / care of craft is... average at best and even when at best... not the best"
The same can be said for a lot of rappers of his age.
- Beyond the odd song and general overall impact and longevity... he hasn't really created a single song or moment which is a game-changer or wow factor, or anything more than 'very good' or 'cool'.

Take Over was a moment and it's probably one of the most important disses in hip hop history...