How can the "GOAT" Always come in "2nd??"

[Rattle1]

Many hail Jay-Z as the greatest rapper ever because of his consistency.. but it can be argued, that legends, of any kind, all have 1 thing in common: They absolutely galvanized, consumed, OR dominated their Sport

ok ok, let's see.

1) He never actually GALVANIZED the culture lke Snoop in 1993, Nas in 1994, Biggie in 1994 / 1997, Pac in 1996, Puffy in 1997; DMX in 1998; Eminem in 2000; 50 Cent in 2003; Kanye, Lil Wayne in 2008, Lupe Fiasco in 2006/2007 who birthed new lyricists like J.Cole, Kendrick Lamar, Wale, Ab-Soul.. I can go on.. (Dr Dre, Outkast,..)

2) How many times has Jay-Z been outshined ? yeah, a fair amount of time.

-Kanye West slayed him on "run this town"
-Scarface got him on "this can't be life" even though Hov's verse is just as good
-Eminem just got him on "renegade"
-Biggie got him on "Brooklyn's finest"
-Big L embarrassed Jay on the "7 min freestyle"
-Nas embarassed him on almost every track
-Big Daddy Kane and Shyheim on "Show And Prove"
-Kendrick Lamar embarassed him on the remix of "Bitch Don't Kill My Vibe"
-Ludacris and Nas got him on "I Do It For Hip Hop"
-Lil Wayne killed him on every song
...
It's normal to get killed by another rapper, but come on, he got killed by all the hottest rappers in the game

3) Jay said it himself: "Men lie, Women Lie, Numbers dont" but he has never been the hottest rapper.

1996 - All Eyez on Me (9x Plat), The Score (6mil), It Was Written (4mil) (reasonable what?), Atliens
1997 - Life after Death, No Way Out, Wu-Tang Forever, Harlem World
1998 - Dark and Hell is Hot, The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill, 400 Degreez (can make the Argument Vol 2 >> 400 Degreez, but its no doubt 1998 was X's / Lauryn's year.. Sales + classics wise)
1999 - Chronic 2001, And then there was X..., Slim Shady LP
2000 - Marshall Mathers LP, Country Grammer
2001* - Stillmatic, *Bluprint, Word of Mouth, Pain is Love
2002 - Nellyville, The Eminem Show
2003 - Get Rich or Die Trying, SpeakerBoxx / Love Below
2004 - The College Drop out, Encore
2005 - Late Registration, The Massacre, The Documentary
2006* - Food and Liqour, *Kingdom Come, Doctors Advocate, Hip Hop is Dead
2007 - Graduation, Curtis, T.I. vs TIP
2008 - Carter 3, Paper Trail
2009 - Relapse, Only built 4 Cuban lynx 2
2010 - My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy, Recovery, Thank me Later
2011 - Carter 4, Take Care
2012 - Good Kid Madd City, The Heist
2013 - The Marshall Mathers LP 2, Nothing Was The Same

Congrats Hov, you surpasse 29 million mark in album sales but you released 12 solo albums, 5 collaborative albums and you appeared in more movies than any other GOATS

And when was the last time he got raoty ? in 2001 ?

4) his biggest singles are Empire state of mind with Alicia on the hook and Hard Knock Life. So his 2 biggest songs of his career had bitches carrying the song.

He basically got Silver / Bronze medals for 15 years.. So why does Jay get a pass?


Fuck a Gay-Z

[SliK]

From now on this will be my standard response when asked why Jay isn't the GOAT.

[Rattle1]

I usually defend nas on coli but there are too many jay fans on this forum

[EminemBase]

Tip-top thread.

People only say he is because he says he is so much; if somebody repeats something so often in so many ways... people start to believe it and repeat it themselves. Just look at religion.

He isn't the best in any category... his 'numbers don't lie' statement is a self-ether as you pointed out lmfao. He placed importance on numbers when his numbers aren't the biggest... so if his implication was that he's the best due to his numbers: that's just factually incorrect.

- Not the best lyricist (or close).
- Not the best songwriter.
- Not the best hook writer.
- Not the best rhymer or any element of technical rap.
- Not the most creative.
- Not the biggest.

So I mean, what exactly is he GOAT at besides how many times he says he's the best.

[Devil'sAdvocate]

I feel bad now, he was always the second/third for me but this is like a slap in the face for Jay-Z fans...

[Trimss]

Blueprint, Black Album, Reasonable Doubt and American Gangster are still great albums.

[Kill You]

Tip-top thread.

People only say he is because he says he is so much; if somebody repeats something so often in so many ways... people start to believe it and repeat it themselves. Just look at religion.

He isn't the best in any category... his 'numbers don't lie' statement is a self-ether as you pointed out lmfao. He placed importance on numbers when his numbers aren't the biggest... so if his implication was that he's the best due to his numbers: that's just factually incorrect.

- Not the best lyricist (or close).
- Not the best songwriter.
- Not the best hook writer.
- Not the best rhymer or any element of technical rap.
- Not the most creative.
- Not the biggest.

So I mean, what exactly is he GOAT at besides how many times he says he's the best.

Boom. EmBase got it. Jay is not a GOAT he is nowhere close.

[Mr Change]

Yeah this sort of proves Jay Z isn't the GOAT in every way possible.

The only way he gets a pass is, above all, he has 2-3 classics in his resume.

[Kill You]

Wayne says he's the best too. Lol.

[ShadyTillIDie72]

wayne isn't one of the hottest rappers he's shit lol

[Accor]

he has 4 classics (3 top tier)

@ Embase Even if he wasn't the greatest in any category (which I think he is, he's probably the most charismatic rapper of all time and has been at times the best lyricist alive), that wouldn't really matter because he's extremely high up in all of them. And lol at having him not being the biggest like that somehow matters at all. Slug doesn't sell shit but again he's a top 5 rapper of all time. You continuously dismiss his lyrics but I highly doubt you've even listened to more than like 2 of his albums.

@OP your galvanizing/dominating (commercially, I'm assuming) isn't a logical argument for why Jay isn't the goat and I hope that doesn't need an explanation lol.

Him not winning raoty (I'm assuming you're talking about the Grammy's here) isn't an argument against Jay, but the Grammy's themselves. He wasn't even nominated for Reasonable Doubt (don't know if he made the cutoff and I think that was the first year for that category), and he clearly should have won for American Gangster, The Blueprint, and maybe The Black Album although that was going up against College Dropout. Nas has never won a Grammy award btw.

>He was outshined
>His verse is just as good

Pick one.

[Crazee]

I love Jay-Z and I think his lyricism is dope in a different way than most people like now, with multiple rhymes and whatever. He's a vivid storyteller with a lot of classic songs. I've never thought his great albums are as great as people say, but all of his albums up to and including Black Album have classic songs. He's a rare artist in terms of being able to pull off classic rap songs and also deliver major mainstream hits without compromising his sound(usually)..

He's consistently been a good rapper with very high highs without the horrible lows(until he came back from retirement) and that's why he's in the GOAT conversation. Frankly, all of the "goats" have holes in their resume. Except Pac maybe, because he died before he could decline.

[biscuitsbrah]

He was always the absolute worst of all the rappers in consideration for GOAT.
Only thing he has over other rappers is his collaboration with Linkin Park.

Also im pretty sure not many people considered this guy GOAT.

[Kill You]

He was always the absolute worst of all the rappers in consideration for GOAT.
Only thing he has over other rappers is his collaboration with Linkin Park.

Also im pretty sure not many people considered this guy GOAT.

There are a lot of dumb asses out there who do believe he is the GOAT.

[ganjakush56]

Big L > Jay-Z

There is no competition.
Lifestylez Ov Da Poor & Dangerous > Reasonable Doubt

Big Pun is better than Jay-Z, jay cannot compete lyrically with most of the goats

jay aint fucking with wu tang on 36 chambers, he aint fucking with big L, biggie, nas, etc.

COMPARE Jay-Z's prime to most of the GOATs primes and you will see that Jay-z is an overrated fuckboy