JAY-Z ranks his own albums (says he has 4 classics)

by **Eazy-GFX** » Dec 7th, '13, 06:18

Solace wrote:Class listen to this and join Fambino pls

tobefuckinghonest.

Let us hear your thoughts m8.

by **EminemBase** » Dec 7th, '13, 07:42

classthe_king wrote:Well I know this is a foreign concept to you but some people like to listen to music just because it's fun to listen to. You can say it's unambitious or whatever but try and look at it from the perspective of a normal human.

Nope, not a foreign concept, as music has to be fun to listen to regardless.

Any music I ever listen to - is because it's fun to listen to.

Revolver by The Beatles is fun to listen to, very fun, and I listen to it often, because it's fun. But it's also a musical masterpiece, and those elements kind of go hand in hand.

If something is paper thin or trivial on some level aka some generic hip-hop beat with broad bragging or poor concepts, lyrics or ideas... it becomes old, quick. That isn't fun to listen to.

That's why ambition is important. Because trivial shit doesn't stand the test of time, gets old and annoying very quick, and ISN'T fun to listen to. If there's no substance, it's mind puke.

by **Rafael** » Dec 7th, '13, 07:57

EmBase got the answers yo

by **classthe_king** » Dec 7th, '13, 16:38

StayWideAwake wrote:
classthe_king wrote:oh come on lol I'm not going to argue MCHG vs. MMLP2 but don't act like Eminem ranking MMLP2 4th isn't in the same league as Jay ranking MCHG 5th

Eminem doesn't talk about his classics anyway. So the whole idea of him not ranking his new album as high as his old ones doesn't make sense. We will literally never know where he ranks it. Maybe he thinks it's number 3? Who knows. But EmBase's point was ambition to make excellent work. Work that could stand up to your best. Eminem did that. He made an album that he believed stood up against the very best of his work. This situation is literally nothing at all like MCHG. Not in quality, not in effort, not in artist ambition. There is no comparison to be made.

Lol no. Mmlp2 and MCHG are both the same distance away from their artists best work quality wise. Now it's up to you if you think that they are worthy or whatever or not but don't sit here and say that MMLP2 is a worthy successor while MCHG isn't because that's bullshit.

@embase you're still holding Jay-Z to a standard that doesn't apply to him. He's not trying to make revolutionary, groundbreaking music. Tht doesn't make him unambitious or lazy. Holy Grail, Oceans, Heaven, Jay-Z Blue, etc is him clearly trying to match his old work. Tom Ford, Picasso baby, FWMUKIGI, etc is him trying to math the caliber of his old singles. Even on the run was him trying to recreate his past work. He definitely put effort into it he's just not as good of a rapper as he once was.

by **Rafael** » Dec 7th, '13, 17:22

^Then he should honestly have retired. I don't know why someone would try to damage ther legacy just for the sake of "Oh shit... Its been three years from my last album. I need to go back to the studio and cook up some uninspired mess." Its utterly just disapointing to the fans and to anyone else that holds the artist in the platform of one of the greatest rappers of all time.

by **classthe_king** » Dec 7th, '13, 22:09

lmao you aren't very good at understanding concepts. I don't think the albums are equal whatsoever. Frankly, I think MCHG is a much better album than MMLP2 and I don't think MMLP2 comes remotely close to MMLP in quality wise but in the scenario where MMLP2 is Eminem's 4th best album and MCHG is Jay's 5th best THEN THEY ARE ROUGHLY THE SAME DISTANCE FROM EACH ARTISTS BEST WORK QUALITY WISE. Holy shit I'm trying to look at it objectively gtfo with your philosophical bullshit.

by **classthe_king** » Dec 7th, '13, 22:24

I was judging albums in terms of spots away from first because Embase was judging Jay-Z for putting his latest album at 5th…I never decided on that criteria, learn 2 keep up.

by **classthe_king** » Dec 7th, '13, 22:40

ok wow apparently I have to hold your hand and walk you through this

1. Embase said that

Also - he ranks Magna Carta FIFTH and yet that his latest...

I understand things take time to settle in even for the artists that make them, but if you believe what you've just made is nowhere near your best... why put it out. That's so unambitious.

Even if it's not as good, you at least should think it's close, or what's the point.

Right off the bat he said that 5th wasn't close to his best work. He said nothing about the quality of the album, just it's ranking in it's list.

2. I said well assuming that Eminem would put MMLP2 4th does that make Eminem unambitious because that's about the same length back as MCHG being at 5th considering Jay's discography is longer.

3. Now here you come in bringing up irrelevant shit, misunderstanding concepts and attacking me for things I've never said which apparently now I have to address.

You literally were just saying you were addressing the quality gap. Now you are just addressing the amount of spots ahead of the album?

I was judging the quality gap based on how far back it would be in his hypothetical list? I don't even agree that they're equal quality albums because I think MMLP2 is a steaming pile of shit and MCHG is good so I wasn't even speaking from my own opinion.

EminemBase was talking about the ambition to make your newest work your best quality work. Eminem said he thinks MMLP2 is a worth successor to the original. So, Eminem does meet the criteria EmBase was talking about, while Jay knows it's nowhere close to his best work.

When did Jay said that his album was nowhere close to his best work? All he did was put it 5th in his discography. That's all we can judge it by. That's all we can judge Eminem's hypothetical list by. I don't give a shit if he thinks that it's a worthy successor. Jay-Z probably thinks MCHG is a worthy successor too so this point is moot.

They aren't the same in terms of ambition, they aren't the same in terms of quality gap, so you fall back on the amount of spots Eminem would put in front of the new album. But Eminem never even placed his album, so your argument is literally based on nothing at all. Nothing except your delusional persistence to assert that both must be on the same level because you say so. On no measurement of any criteria do you have a point. Just let it go.

This is you continuing to blabber on about things that aren't relevant and/or wrong.

by **classthe_king** » Dec 7th, '13, 23:03

StayWideAwake wrote:He said "If you believe what you've just made is nowhere near your best... why put it out. That's so unambitious."

Em does think it's near his best

But he's saying that Jay-Z doesn't think his is near his best ONLY because of it's place on the list so I brought if Eminem put his album 4th then would that make him unambitious. That's ALL I've been talking about this whole fucking time. Holy shit.

So your argument is where Eminem might rank his album on a hypothetical list?

Guys ten posts in and SWA finally gets it!!!!!

That's all we can judge Eminem's hypotheical list by lmao. In other words, you have nothing to judge at all since this hypothetical list is made up. You have no idea where he would place it and you are making this argument based on where you would think he would place it.

YES

and you make your conclusion based off of your "hypothetical list". One that does not exist. It's called begging the question. The point you want to prove is in your premise itself. You have no argument. Your conclusion is based off of nothing but an assumption of where you think Eminem might place the album.

See: philosophical bullshit. I'm not arguing if MCHG or MMLP2 is actually close in quality to their respective artists best work just if we are judging the quality of albums by how close they are to their best work then they would be about the same. I'm not making any greater arguments. god damn.

Your whole point of making the Jay and Em comparison is based off of a list that does not exist. Stop.

No shit sherlock.

by **Atone** » Dec 7th, '13, 23:10

i agree with his list

exept for Magna Carta, i have yet to give it a full listen, i will probably do that tonight

by **classthe_king** » Dec 7th, '13, 23:20

You're judging Jay's album by where he placed MCHG on his list. You are judging Eminem's album by what he said. But Eminem's album is in a similar spot on this hypothetical list as MCHG is on Jay's list so Jay probably thinks that MCHG is a worthy successor as well. They probably both think of each album equally

wow look my entire point

by **classthe_king** » Dec 7th, '13, 23:36

I feel like I've explained this 14 times. You know nothing about what Jay-Z thinks about his album other than where he put it on his list. You do know what Eminem thinks of his album. I brought up well if eminem ranks his album 4th then what. I'm not even arguing my opinion, just what the facts are. You're arguing against something I never said, maybe that's why talking to me is a chore. And if you don't like talking to me then please stop because your posts are so dumb it hurts my brain to respond to you.

by **classthe_king** » Dec 7th, '13, 23:51

I'm gonna try this one more time, if you still are too dumb to get it then I quit

1. You do know what Eminem thinks. You don't know what Jay-Z thinks.
2. You do know where Eminem ranks his (in this situation). You do know where Jay-Z ranks his.
3. They are ranked roughly the same.
4. Eminem's album was worthy and therefore he has ambition.
5. Using everything we know it is then concluded that Jay-Z probably thinks his album is worthy and therefore has ambition.

Because we know that Em has fulfilled the ambition criteria in question. We don't necessarily know that for Jay.

But based on the points above it's most likely that Jay-Z does meet the ambition criteria. The only reason he wouldn't meet the criteria would be if 5th was too low. But if 4th isn't too low for Eminem then 5th can't be too low for Jay-Z so you can't disqualify Jay-Z based on that criteria. In fact, based on what we know Eminem thinks about his album and where he would rank it the evidence points to the fact that 5th is high enough for Jay-Z to be ranked within the ambition criteria.

by **classthe_king** » Dec 7th, '13, 23:59

But we're having this conversation under the scenario that we do know where eminem would rank his because I wanted to see if Eminembase would think Eminem was also unambitious. Why is this so hard for you to understand?

by **Devil'sAdvocate** » Dec 8th, '13, 00:06

Circle jerk!

JAY-Z ranks his own albums (says he has 4 classics)

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Re: JAY-Z ranks his own albums (says he has 4 classics)

Re: JAY-Z ranks his own albums (says he has 4 classics)

Re: JAY-Z ranks his own albums (says he has 4 classics)

Re: JAY-Z ranks his own albums (says he has 4 classics)

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