MMLP2 General Discussion

[Jaba]

That would have made sense if Eminem hasn't had songs like The Monster on all of his albums.
TRSS, Without Me, We Made You are all like The Monster, if you look at it objectively.
You're trying so hard to make your point that you contradict yourself; you said in the first paragraph of the above post that the mixed reception Relapse got is the reason Em tries to make a "balanced" album nowadays, while admitting later on that Relapse itself was made to be balanced.
Anyhow, while I agree that albums need a certain coherence to be "classic", I don't think it's as strict a requirement as you're making it seem.

How in the flying fuck are ''The Real Slim Shady'' and ''Without Me'' like ''The Monster''?

They're catchier and more condense versions of his personality and style, sure. But they do not completely musically venture away from the sound of the rest of the album, and they are still full-blown rap songs, not weird concoctions of pop-rock beats with ready-made cliche hooks. They are Eminem hooks and concepts, they are Eminem songs and sound like full-blown Eminem songs start to finish, and fit the albums totally.

Because pop back then was different than it is now. And back then. Those were considered pop/rap. (Same as Monster)

[shadyblogger]

Would people say Recovery was balanced?

[DreicRls]

Would people say Recovery was balanced?

WAS balanced, but on a average level. All the songs were acceptable, but there isn't a masterpiece or even a PRETTY good song.

[Raul]

Would people say Recovery was balanced?

WAS balanced, but on a average level. All the songs were acceptable, but there isn't a masterpiece or even a PRETTY good song.

Almost Famous and Going Through Changes disagree with you.

[shadyblogger]

Would people say Recovery was balanced?

WAS balanced, but on a average level. All the songs were acceptable, but there isn't a masterpiece or even a PRETTY good song.

Almost Famous and Going Through Changes disagree with you.

Yeah Raul is right. I feel that Recovery was an album that had several really good songs (by themselves) but as an album was subpar. That's just how I feel.

[EminemBase]

That would have made sense if Eminem hasn't had songs like The Monster on all of his albums.
TRSS, Without Me, We Made You are all like The Monster, if you look at it objectively.
You're trying so hard to make your point that you contradict yourself; you said in the first paragraph of the above post that the mixed reception Relapse got is the reason Em tries to make a "balanced" album nowadays, while admitting later on that Relapse itself was made to be balanced.
Anyhow, while I agree that albums need a certain coherence to be "classic", I don't think it's as strict a requirement as you're making it seem.

How in the flying fuck are ''The Real Slim Shady'' and ''Without Me'' like ''The Monster''?

They're catchier and more condense versions of his personality and style, sure. But they do not completely musically venture away from the sound of the rest of the album, and they are still full-blown rap songs, not weird concoctions of pop-rock beats with ready-made cliche hooks. They are Eminem hooks and concepts, they are Eminem songs and sound like full-blown Eminem songs start to finish, and fit the albums totally.

Because pop back then was different than it is now. And back then. Those were considered pop/rap. (Same as Monster)

Nah, those songs were never pop/rap.

They were pop-Eminem.

What ''pop rap songs'' of that era sound like ''Without Me''?

Those are still authentic hip-hop songs with Eminem hooks and signature sound.

That is totally different to taking a ready-made beat and hook which could just as easily be given to B.o.B and be made in to an almost identical song just by a different rapper with a different style.

Nobody else could have or would have made ''Without Me''. It's an Eminem song.

[EminemBase]

The song is dope af maiyne, I lud it.

In fact I don't think there is a lyrically bad song on the album and there's so many unique flows and inventive styles of rapping (which he doesn't get nearly enough credit for. The amount of styles he's come up with and comes up with every album is just ridiculous) - and even all of the production is pretty fly, some of it I think is some of my favourite production he's spit over...

The only problem is just the songs being together, like, them flowing and making sense as the same album. Not conceptually or lyrically, just in the way they sound yo.

I get it was an intentionally eclectic attempt though, a bit like Adventures of Bobby Ray (not in style, but in the genre-juggling), but I'm not sure it quite works for me. When I first heard it I think it did; all of the songs work individually and I think that bar Stronger Than I was - he was pretty consistent with the MMLP attitude... I think the problem is he's just TOO good at making defining sub-genre tracks now, so if he makes a rap-rock track - it's REALLY gonna sound like that and stand-out if the rest ain't...

Endlessly dope rapping and music, miles better than Recovery, but doesn't work as an album I think. It's more like Em just going ''here, I've been in the lab for a few years and created some amazing shit... here is a big varied mix of some of the best shit. See what you think'', as apposed to a single focus of THIS IS THE ALBUM, THIS IS THE SOUND AND THE FEEL, LET'S NAIL IT like he used to and which I think all classics need.

imo, the only song that truly feels out of place (conceptually) is Survival. But as far as concepts go, the album is definitely cohesive and deserving of it's title; that in itself makes it work as an album.

It's only flaw is sonic cohesion, but even with that it is a solid 9/10 for me. The album would've been perfect if a few songs on the standard track list would've been replaced with some of the bonus tracks.

Yeah well sonic cohesion is all I'm talking about.

How can you say... a) Rap God and b) The Monster sound sonically cohesive on the same album... or a) Rhyme or Reason and b) Survival. There's really absurd clashes of musical style in every direction.

[Jaba]

That would have made sense if Eminem hasn't had songs like The Monster on all of his albums.
TRSS, Without Me, We Made You are all like The Monster, if you look at it objectively.
You're trying so hard to make your point that you contradict yourself; you said in the first paragraph of the above post that the mixed reception Relapse got is the reason Em tries to make a "balanced" album nowadays, while admitting later on that Relapse itself was made to be balanced.
Anyhow, while I agree that albums need a certain coherence to be "classic", I don't think it's as strict a requirement as you're making it seem.

How in the flying fuck are ''The Real Slim Shady'' and ''Without Me'' like ''The Monster''?

They're catchier and more condense versions of his personality and style, sure. But they do not completely musically venture away from the sound of the rest of the album, and they are still full-blown rap songs, not weird concoctions of pop-rock beats with ready-made cliche hooks. They are Eminem hooks and concepts, they are Eminem songs and sound like full-blown Eminem songs start to finish, and fit the albums totally.

Because pop back then was different than it is now. And back then. Those were considered pop/rap. (Same as Monster)

Nah, those songs were never pop/rap.

They were pop-Eminem.

What ''pop rap songs'' of that era sound like ''Without Me''?

Those are still authentic hip-hop songs with Eminem hooks and signature sound.

That is totally different to taking a ready-made beat and hook which could just as easily be given to B.o.B and be made in to an almost identical song just by a different rapper with a different style.

Nobody else could have or would have made ''Without Me''. It's an Eminem song.

The Monster is more pop/rap than those songs. But it still has that same vibe to it. It's just that he has Rihanna instead of himself doing a hook.

[EminemBase]

The Monster is more pop/rap than those songs. But it still has that same vibe to it. It's just that he has Rihanna instead of himself doing a hook.

How in the hell does The Monster have the same vibe as Without Me lmao.

Without Me: Eminem produced, signature sound, Eminem concept and verses to match. Authentic hip-hop.

The Monster: ready-made hook and beat given to Em - concept derived from Em hearing the hook and the verses are neat 16's with everything conforming to a pure pop radio standard from the hook to the beat to the time of his verses; the only authentic Em-element is the verses. No authentic signature sound; beat and hook could have been given to anybody and concept derived from them... = inauthentic, ready-made pop single.

It ain't just the fact Em is doing the hook. The songs are made with an entirely different level of care, authenticity and style which makes them totally different. One is an authentic hip-hop song; intentionally catchier but still Eminem, almost entirely uncompromised and fitting to the album... the other is a beat and hook which sound like everything else in the moment, not made for Eminem; a stock beat and hook which could have been given to anybody, with the concept coming from that hook and Em filling in quick 16's to conform to a time standard and have the song be an automatic, obvious and cliche hit for its own sake. Totally unfitting for the album and totally unauthentic in every respect.

[yoda you can call me]

Stan springs to mind

[EminemBase]

Naw i disagree with some of your points. It sounds nothing like Without Me, but it was made for eminem thats for sure. It is a generic pop hook but eminem chose it, which means it is something that "fits." Example is the hooks for SFTM and Stan, they were not made for eminem but he made them fit to a particular theme. The song minus the pop sound is authentic eminem, no doubt. Is it a little too poppy, yes, but other than that theres nothing that makes it unauthentic. Your making it seem like if eminem doesnt produce it, or do his own chorus, then its not fitting eminem song, which is obviously untrue.

Nope @ if he doesn't produce it or do the hook then it's not authentic or a fitting Eminem song.

It's entirely how it sounds and the reasons it was made, and how it was made, and what for.

Those two examples you gave are not comparable to ''The Monster'' for the following reasons:

1. ''Stan'' was an incidental and creative flip of that hook. Em didn't write to it because he thought it would be a hit... he heard it and envisioned a concept from it which he knew would be a brilliant story and ingenious way to answer his critics. The hook is essential due to the wording sparking the concept.

With ''The Monster''... yeah okay he thought of a theme from the words; but the song was intended to be a hit hook used by an artist or rapper to fill in verses... it's a template, passed-around hook that Em knew would be a hit so he rattled off some more fame verses to offer up the surefire pop-radio golden child.

''Stan'' was also then carefully produced by 45 King, a legendary hip-hop producer and by Em himself to sound moody and rough-edged, to fit the story and the concept and an authentic, raw, stripped-down hip-hop beat with detailed effects and atmosphere; in comparison to ''The Monster'' beat which is -again, a template, ready-made to be a hook beat - not for that song... just a random beat with presumed-hit tempos and radio-friendly style to slam an easy hook over, totally in contrast to Em's moody tone and lyrics.

---

2. ''Sing for the Moment'' contains a hook Em had wanted to rap with since a kid because he loved the song so much, it was nostalgic and he loves Aerosmith and 70s rock because he grew up on it; he then flipped the hook as an elevation for a really clever and affecting socio-political-personal rap-rock anthem that is unlike any song that came before it in sound and style and substance. A truly classic piece of music.

He cared about every aspect of the song - and it was made for an artistically authentic reason.

---

Both of those songs sprung from an authentic artistic intrigue... they are pure. That's what makes them authentic and why Em had his hands all over them - because he cared deeply about them.

Much much different to a ready-made pop-radio beat with a generic hook that Em went ''uh... sounds like some kind of fame-related woes shit... aiyt, leme knock out some 16s, this is a hit'' to.

[EminemBase]

''Groundhog Day'' is beyond amazing.

Its brilliance almost escapes you because it's like a trance but Jesus Christ Em took it to another level, just absolutely ridiculous. And for people like Wayne and Drake to be debated as top rappers in techncial terms or even half=seriously said to be ''killin it'' even by respected MCs and then to hear shit like this... it's just absurd lmao.

Em doesn't get nearly enough credit. Overrated my ass.

This shit is fucking bananas and it's relentless re-invention, styles within styles, mind-spinning skill.

[EminemBase]

EmBase, would you say "Berzerk" is more like those two older singles as opposed to "The Monster"?

Yeah absolutely.

''Berzerk'' is a unique Eminem song.

Not a surefire hit in the slightest and actually... even braver than TRSS and WM in a way... because it's so left-field from what was clearly expected after ''Not Afraid'', in terms of boldness and sound and from anything he's done; it's brash, aggressive and he comes in with some spaz hyper flow and endless fucked up effects etc. ..

It's an extremely experimental song for a lead-single. And obviously made to-be-a-single in the sense he knew it was going to be the lead in the way those verses are condensed and written, and the way the hook is bigger and catchier. But that's what a lead song should be I think - a big bold, slightly watered-down introduction to catch your ear like ''wow?'' and pull you in to the album. That's exactly what ''Without Me'' did/does too. ; but they still work completely as stand-alone songs. They aren't largely compromised musically outside of being laboured to be a bit catchier... but they aren't cheap, they're really well-made and authentic Eminem expressions.

Which is why ''The Monster'' is such a shame in comparison and why I say Em doesn't seem to have the guts to follow through on his experimentation these days. He dabbles in boldness but plays lots of safe bets... where as if he went full-fledged in to the artistic pureness even like ''Berzerk'' in ethos... it would be something else.

[HotDawg]

EmBase, would you say "Berzerk" is more like those two older singles as opposed to "The Monster"?

Yeah absolutely.

''Berzerk'' is a unique Eminem song.

Not a surefire hit in the slightest and actually... even braver than TRSS and WM in a way... because it's so left-field from what was clearly expected after ''Not Afraid'', in terms of boldness and sound and from anything he's done; it's brash, aggressive and he comes in with some spaz hyper flow and endless fucked up effects etc. ..

It's an extremely experimental song for a lead-single.

Which is why ''The Monster'' is such a shame in comparison and why I say Em doesn't seem to have the guts to follow through on his experimentation these days. He dabbles in boldness but plays lots of safe bets... where as if he went full-fledged in to the artistic pureness even like ''Berzerk'' in ethos... it would be something else.

Your posts are great

[kkaniff]

I think "Fuck top 5 bitch, I'm top 4...".might be my new fav line from the album.
Bold and clever af.