Encore > Relapse

[rudeawakening101]

Long time reader...first time poster.

Real Em fans worldwide can agree on the SSLP, MMLP and TES being Em's best albums. What order those ones go in, well, that's another debate...

Anyway, I've put a lot of thought into this...Encore vs. Relapse. Which is the lesser evil? Well, I've come up with the reasons (I feel) that Encore is simply better than Relapse. Before any of you go ape shit about this, read my points...

Stronger Singles
- Let's face it, I don't give a fuck if anybody thinks Just Lose It was weak...it did better than We Made You, and it's stronger than We Made You. The charts prove this.
- Secondly, Like Toy Soldiers was a lot more pleasing to the fan than 3 a.m was. LTS delivered a message, and served a purpose. 3 a.m said nothing.
- Mockingbird vs. Beautiful...either/or, I guess. Both are extremely similar, but once again...the charts prove Mockingbird was more successful.

Better Content
- Will anyone even dare try to dispute this? It'd be a waste of time. Aside from two tracks on Relapse (Deja Vu & Beautiful -- and NOT counting bonus tracks)...what is Relapse's overall message? Oh yeah, it doesn't have one. Now, while Encore has it's share of mindless filler too (more on that later), it doesn't lack nowhere near as much mindless content as Relapse does. Yellow Brick Road, LTS, Mosh, Mockingbird, & Spend Some Time all say SOMETHING! For that alone, Encore >>> Relapse in terms of replay value.

INTENDED To Be A Stronger Album
- As we all know, leaked tracks off of Encore forced Em & the label to release the album earlier than expected, and fucked over what was supposed to be a much, much better album. All of Encore's bonus tracks were intended to actually make the cut, which would have made the album fire. Instead, Em had to go back inside the recording studio and obviously half-assed the replacement tracks.
- Looking at Relapse, Em blantantly left off My Darling & Careful What You Wish for -- and instead decided to go with throw away tracks like CAB or Must Be The Ganja.
- I'm sure everyone would be in agreement that if the bonus tracks on both of these albums actually made the albums, they'd be better albums. The only difference is, Encore was supposed to be a better album. Relapse wasn't.

More Expectations For Relapse, Not Encore
- After the release of SSLP, MMLP and TES...where the fuck does one go from there? Em dropped three of the greatest hip-hop albums of all-time. Given that, was it not understandable that Encore might be a drop off? I sure as hell think so. However, despite being a drop off...look at what we compare Encore to...SSLP, MMLP & TES. Is that really fair? I don't think so. The fact is -- despite people's opinions on Encore...it was a strong commercial success, had to be re-tooled, and can easily measure up with some of the "best" hip-hop albums of today.
- Relapse, on the other hand, had HUGE expectations. After years of hiding and then finally stepping back into the spotlight -- Em had A LOT to prove. This was his chance to "erase" any negative trace he may have left on Encore, and come back and establish himself as the same guy who made the brilliance of his first three commercial albums. Instead, Em didn't progress. He came back, and left off where he went wrong on Encore. Only this time, he went a lot worse with Relapse.

Eminem In His Prime
- Okay, this has nothing to do with the actual albums themselves -- so it isn't really a "point" per say, but I think it's important to mention. Eminem was still as his absolute prime in 2004. Sure, Em is still popular as fuck today -- but he's obviously a different person. Again, this is more of a personal observation -- but I preferred Eminem while promoting Encore a thousand times more than I do on his promotion of Relapse. Em's live performances, especially, are a lot more different today than they were in 2004 (and not for the good). Bottom line -- Em was more so the Em we grew to love in 1999 in 2004 than he is today in 2009.

These are my two cents. Flame away, if you must.

By the way, I don't think Relapse is complete trash or anything either. Lyrically, it is on an elite level. However, lyrics on a technical basis alone don't make an album to me. It has to have the entire package, and Relapse lacked it. I believe it's Eminem's worst solo album, and I just wish that Relapse 2 will erase the disappointment that was...Relapse.

[whtcrack]

ok....

[rudeawakening101]

ok....

Thanks for the input, boss.

[classthe_king]

Thats a horrible argument.

[slimsoxshady]

Personally, I can't listen to Encore all the way through...never could. Relapse is up there with the other 3 albums for me.

[Relapse.LP]

Long time reader...first time poster.

Real Em fans worldwide can agree on the SSLP, MMLP and TES being Em's best albums. What order those ones go in, well, that's another debate...

Anyway, I've put a lot of thought into this...Encore vs. Relapse. Which is the lesser evil? Well, I've come up with the reasons (I feel) that Encore is simply better than Relapse. Before any of you go ape shit about this, read my points...

Stronger Singles
- Let's face it, I don't give a fuck if anybody thinks Just Lose It was weak...it did better than We Made You, and it's stronger than We Made You. The charts prove this.
- Secondly, Like Toy Soldiers was a lot more pleasing to the fan than 3 a.m was. LTS delivered a message, and served a purpose. 3 a.m said nothing.
- Mockingbird vs. Beautiful...either/or, I guess. Both are extremely similar, but once again...the charts prove Mockingbird was more successful.

Better Content
- Will anyone even dare try to dispute this? It'd be a waste of time. Aside from two tracks on Relapse (Deja Vu & Beautiful -- and NOT counting bonus tracks)...what is Relapse's overall message? Oh yeah, it doesn't have one. Now, while Encore has it's share of mindless filler too (more on that later), it doesn't lack nowhere near as much mindless content as Relapse does. Yellow Brick Road, LTS, Mosh, Mockingbird, & Spend Some Time all say SOMETHING! For that alone, Encore >>> Relapse in terms of replay value.

INTENDED To Be A Stronger Album
- As we all know, leaked tracks off of Encore forced Em & the label to release the album earlier than expected, and fucked over what was supposed to be a much, much better album. All of Encore's bonus tracks were intended to actually make the cut, which would have made the album fire. Instead, Em had to go back inside the recording studio and obviously half-assed the replacement tracks.
- Looking at Relapse, Em blantantly left off My Darling & Careful What You Wish for -- and instead decided to go with throw away tracks like CAB or Must Be The Ganja.
- I'm sure everyone would be in agreement that if the bonus tracks on both of these albums actually made the albums, they'd be better albums. The only difference is, Encore was supposed to be a better album. Relapse wasn't.

More Expectations For Relapse, Not Encore
- After the release of SSLP, MMLP and TES...where the fuck does one go from there? Em dropped three of the greatest hip-hop albums of all-time. Given that, was it not understandable that Encore might be a drop off? I sure as hell think so. However, despite being a drop off...look at what we compare Encore to...SSLP, MMLP & TES. Is that really fair? I don't think so. The fact is -- despite people's opinions on Encore...it was a strong commercial success, had to be re-tooled, and can easily measure up with some of the "best" hip-hop albums of today.
- Relapse, on the other hand, had HUGE expectations. After years of hiding and then finally stepping back into the spotlight -- Em had A LOT to prove. This was his chance to "erase" any negative trace he may have left on Encore, and come back and establish himself as the same guy who made the brilliance of his first three commercial albums. Instead, Em didn't progress. He came back, and left off where he went wrong on Encore. Only this time, he went a lot worse with Relapse.

Eminem In His Prime
- Okay, this has nothing to do with the actual albums themselves -- so it isn't really a "point" per say, but I think it's important to mention. Eminem was still as his absolute prime in 2004. Sure, Em is still popular as fuck today -- but he's obviously a different person. Again, this is more of a personal observation -- but I preferred Eminem while promoting Encore a thousand times more than I do on his promotion of Relapse. Em's live performances, especially, are a lot more different today than they were in 2004 (and not for the good). Bottom line -- Em was more so the Em we grew to love in 1999 in 2004 than he is today in 2009.

These are my two cents. Flame away, if you must.

By the way, I don't think Relapse is complete trash or anything either. Lyrically, it is on an elite level. However, lyrics on a technical basis alone don't make an album to me. It has to have the entire package, and Relapse lacked it. I believe it's Eminem's worst solo album, and I just wish that Relapse 2 will erase the disappointment that was...Relapse.

Welcome to the forum and it's a shame you have to go against my logic on this one as a starter.

I'ma go down your post, almost fact by fact.

1. Just Lose It was released in a different atmosphere in the rap game than now. It was easier to sell back then and Eminem was on top (not coming back from a hiatus) so more people knew about him and would probably buy his singles with a higher probability. Also, charts don't prove shit about a song. Underground hip hop songs don't even chart, but quality-wise, are you suggesting "Low" is a better song than every single underground rap track? Low charts higher, but it for kids/clubs, nothing more.

2. Saying Like Toy Soldiers is more pleasing to fans is a biased thought. How do you know what everyone thinks? But in general, I do agree with your second fact. LTS is better than 3 A.M. by a long shot. 3 A.M. didn't talk shit and had one of the most lacking messages I ever heard in rap.

3. Again, sales don't mean bullshit. Get over that fact already, please.

4. Finally, something legit. I agree 100% with that (except for tracks like Rain Man/Puke).

5. We really don't know how much Encore would improve if the tracks didn't leak, so there's no point making an entire contention based on that unknown variable. And every album leaks eventually.

6. As soon as you said the first line, I realized the entire paragraph was useless. There's no point in comparing albums if you're comparing something entirely different. Contention dropped.

7. You studied this forum well. I'm not flaming or anything, but just politely stating my opinions on your post. As I said again, welcome to the forum.

[classthe_king]

Your arguing Encore is better because it had better singles, which is the least important part of the album. Subject matter, sometimes it was better, sometimes it was worse. And was intended to be a stronger album? Well it wasnt.

Relapse > Encore in terms of lyrics, beats, flow, pretty much every category. The "accent" of relapse >the accent of Encore.

Crack a bottle, Relapse's worst song is better then Just Lose It, Puke, My First Single, Rain Man, Big Weenie and ass like that.

[Relapse.LP]

Talking about Encore just makes me realize how inconsistent Eminem is sometimes.

[Emadyville]

Personally, I can't listen to Encore all the way through...never could. Relapse is up there with the other 3 albums for me.

I agree on that I really do.

I will say that his argument was pretty damn good. And I'm very against encore, but I feel I'm a well educated man, his logic seemed to make sense.

Altho it comes down to what slimoxshady just said, I can't listen to encore through, I can for relapse, I think relapse was solid, I like most of the songs, I do applaud your argument since it was miles ahead of anyone elses reasoning on here before. Hats off to you

[Fa-Q]

First off, I can't stand Encore. So much that I can't even look at the cover. Second if you think that the Rhyming schemes and the lyrics are better on Encore than on Relapse...then that's ig'nance cause his lyrics are insane on Relapse. So good that I would venture to say that as far as rhyming schemes and hidden rhymes, that that alone makes it an insane album. Thirdly Encore was such a bland album that even wheat bread is flipping it off. There was no controversy and it made Em seem like a pussy with LTS in my opinion. Relapse had no controversy but it probably should have with all the underage fuckin involved and the rape song that's about Em stalking his prey like some BTK shit.

What's the worst song on Encore...arguably My First Single...what's the worst on Relapse...arguably Crack A Bottle...now some people dislike CAB and it probably wasn't supposed to be on the album...that being said his rhyme scheme on that is so intricate that if you look at it NO ONE has ever used that kind of scheme...My First Single was just an orgy of shit like fuckin two girls and a cup....


Bottom line is its fuckin opinion. My opinion is that Relapse is up to par with his other albums and encore is so much under par that even Tiger Woods and saying "What the fuck"

[EminemIVLife]

Relapse was better. ^Eminem dropped Encore when he was more popular.

[heva]

Iagree with a new guy

[Evan C.]

Stronger Singles
- Let's face it, I don't give a fuck if anybody thinks Just Lose It was weak...it did better than We Made You, and it's stronger than We Made You. The charts prove this.

It did better than We Made You (as it's been said by other in this thread already) because Eminem was arguably the biggest star in the WORLD at the time of it's release. We Made You was released at a time when the general public barely even remembered who Eminem was.

"The charts" don't mean anything, especially now. People have been buying music less and less in the internet age, and the gap between 2004-2009 is a big one...sales mean less than they ever did.

- Secondly, Like Toy Soldiers was a lot more pleasing to the fan than 3 a.m was. LTS delivered a message, and served a purpose. 3 a.m said nothing.

Which fans? Not me. While I don't like 3 AM, the amount of skill it takes to write a song like that is greater than the non-existent rhyming of Toy Soldiers. Plus, Eminem rapping about the stupid beefs with Benzino and Ja Rule and basically calling uncle was embarrassing. Serial Killer nonsense > That.

- Mockingbird vs. Beautiful...either/or, I guess. Both are extremely similar, but once again...the charts prove Mockingbird was more successful.

Here I can agree...both are horrendous attempts at a serious song. I'll take Beautiful, because I think the rock sample is better.

[url]Better Content
- Will anyone even dare try to dispute this? It'd be a waste of time. Aside from two tracks on Relapse (Deja Vu & Beautiful -- and NOT counting bonus tracks)...what is Relapse's overall message? Oh yeah, it doesn't have one. Now, while Encore has it's share of mindless filler too (more on that later), it doesn't lack nowhere near as much mindless content as Relapse does. Yellow Brick Road, LTS, Mosh, Mockingbird, & Spend Some Time all say SOMETHING! For that alone, Encore >>> Relapse in terms of replay value. [/url]

Here you're DEAD WRONG. There's a lot of non-sense rapping on both albums, but for most of Encore Eminem LITERALLY doesn't even make sense. Are you kidding me? Sure, Eminem isn't really rapping "about" anything on much of Relapse...but he IS making sense, and he's rhyming his ass off while doing it. That can't be said about Encore's trash.

Yes, those Encore songs you listed "say something" However they convey the message in ways that weren't well thought out...scatterbrained...corny...annoying.

Deja Vu alone is more meaningful than everything on Encore combined.

INTENDED To Be A Stronger Album
- As we all know, leaked tracks off of Encore forced Em & the label to release the album earlier than expected, and fucked over what was supposed to be a much, much better album. All of Encore's bonus tracks were intended to actually make the cut, which would have made the album fire. Instead, Em had to go back inside the recording studio and obviously half-assed the replacement tracks.
- Looking at Relapse, Em blantantly left off My Darling & Careful What You Wish for -- and instead decided to go with throw away tracks like CAB or Must Be The Ganja.
- I'm sure everyone would be in agreement that if the bonus tracks on both of these albums actually made the albums, they'd be better albums. The only difference is, Encore was supposed to be a better album. Relapse wasn't.

Well I don't really like the bonus tracks much for either album, so...

Like it was said before, we're talking about the ACTUAL albums here. Woulda, coulda, shoulda...

More Expectations For Relapse, Not Encore
- After the release of SSLP, MMLP and TES...where the fuck does one go from there? Em dropped three of the greatest hip-hop albums of all-time. Given that, was it not understandable that Encore might be a drop off? I sure as hell think so. However, despite being a drop off...look at what we compare Encore to...SSLP, MMLP & TES. Is that really fair? I don't think so. The fact is -- despite people's opinions on Encore...it was a strong commercial success, had to be re-tooled, and can easily measure up with some of the "best" hip-hop albums of today.
- Relapse, on the other hand, had HUGE expectations. After years of hiding and then finally stepping back into the spotlight -- Em had A LOT to prove. This was his chance to "erase" any negative trace he may have left on Encore, and come back and establish himself as the same guy who made the brilliance of his first three commercial albums. Instead, Em didn't progress. He came back, and left off where he went wrong on Encore. Only this time, he went a lot worse with Relapse.

Nope, way off base, and stupid. expectations were SKY-HIGH with Encore because he had just released maybe the best 3 consecutive albums ever...and he turned out a steaming turd. Not just a "mediocre, meh" album...Encore is just bad. When you go through the lyrics, the beats, the voice, it's not a debatable topic if you're dealing with an intelligent/sane person.

My expectations for Relapse couldn't have been any lower BECAUSE OF Encore, and everything else he'd done in between that and Relapse. I was pleasantly surprised when relapse leaked to hear that Eminem had at least attempted to go back to his old style (and on many tracks he re-captures some of that old magic.)

Eminem In His Prime
- Okay, this has nothing to do with the actual albums themselves -- so it isn't really a "point" per say, but I think it's important to mention. Eminem was still as his absolute prime in 2004. Sure, Em is still popular as fuck today -- but he's obviously a different person. Again, this is more of a personal observation -- but I preferred Eminem while promoting Encore a thousand times more than I do on his promotion of Relapse. Em's live performances, especially, are a lot more different today than they were in 2004 (and not for the good). Bottom line -- Em was more so the Em we grew to love in 1999 in 2004 than he is today in 2009.

In 2004, Eminem was an exhausted drug-addict who really looked and sounded nothing like he did in 1999. He lip-synched live performances, and the ones he did perform were done so in a shot voice. Eminem now can perform Lose Yourself live and sound AMAZING...in 2004 that was a pipe dream he wouldn't even attempt.

Here's a counter-point to your argument...THE BEATS. the beats on most of Relapse are actually good, or least ok. Encore had a lot of HOORIBLE beats...I mean, My First Single? Mosh? Just Lose It? just awful, awful, awful.

On Encore I think Dre was making awful beats purposely in order to match Eminem's awful lyrics, flow, and voice at the time.

[Evan C.]

Also, Eminem disagrees with you. He stated in an interview that Encore was not a great album for him, and said everything about him was slow because of the drugs he was heavy into at the time. He also admitted to not being able to write worth shit while he was an addict.

Relapse was him coming out of the drug haze and being able to write and rap again.

[zizou312]

for me eminem exceed my expectation I had for him in Relapse. there is so many never heard before rhyme schemes its insane. Like the same song and dance where he goes laundary bask's in the back and sit up front not ask's its a trap. I feel like people dont give Relapse a chance because of the accent but once you get past it, you enjoy it more. so yea Relapse > Encore, because its just technically sooo much better